Tobacco on the Course

[dak4n6]

Not trying to be a debbie-downer, but is there really anything being gained in this thread? I see no movement, just endless blah.

[mtsalmela80]

I don't always smoke on the course. But when I do, I smoke because some 4some ahead of me is playing like its their own property.

[NotPortlyNJ]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I've never smoked (never tried it).  I find the smell disgusting, especially cigars, and causes me to get a headache so I'd prefer not to be around it but I'm not going to complain if someone smokes on a golf course.

I really don't think getting lung cancer from second hand smoke at the golf course is a concern.  If smokers are considerate, make an effort to not blow smoke near me and don't flick their ashes on the green I have no problem with someone smoking on the course.

Good point about not being concerned about getting lung cancer from second hand smoke at the golf course.  Some of the comments here are along the lines of "OMG, I got a whiff of smoke from 100 feet away!  I'll be dead of emphasema next week!" which is ridiculous.

The reason smoking is banned in indoor places (and as one who enjoys a nice cigar on the golf course, I FULLY agree with it), is that:

1. Second hand smoke in the accumulations found indoors, over time, IS bad for you,

2. It's worse for children,

3. Banning indoor smoking was done primarily for the benefit of employees of restaurants, bars, etc. (but curiously not casinos), who must be there for several hours at a time breathing all that smoke,

4. Second hand smoke from a cigarette is not filtered, and since tobacco companies put additives in that prevent the cigarette from going out when left in an ashtray, as a hand-rolled cigarette or a cigar would, all that smoke comes drifting out for no reason whatsoever.

The comment about the guy smoking on a sidewalk being "just as bad as smoking indoors" is beyond ridiculous.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by NotPortlyNJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I've never smoked (never tried it).  I find the smell disgusting, especially cigars, and causes me to get a headache so I'd prefer not to be around it but I'm not going to complain if someone smokes on a golf course.

I really don't think getting lung cancer from second hand smoke at the golf course is a concern.  If smokers are considerate, make an effort to not blow smoke near me and don't flick their ashes on the green I have no problem with someone smoking on the course.

Good point about not being concerned about getting lung cancer from second hand smoke at the golf course.  Some of the comments here are along the lines of "OMG, I got a whiff of smoke from 100 feet away!  I'll be dead of emphasema next week!" which is ridiculous.

The reason smoking is banned in indoor places (and as one who enjoys a nice cigar on the golf course, I FULLY agree with it), is that:

1. Second hand smoke in the accumulations found indoors, over time, IS bad for you,

2. It's worse for children,

3. Banning indoor smoking was done primarily for the benefit of employees of restaurants, bars, etc. (but curiously not casinos), who must be there for several hours at a time breathing all that smoke,

4. Second hand smoke from a cigarette is not filtered, and since tobacco companies put additives in that prevent the cigarette from going out when left in an ashtray, as a hand-rolled cigarette or a cigar would, all that smoke comes drifting out for no reason whatsoever.

The comment about the guy smoking on a sidewalk being "just as bad as smoking indoors" is beyond ridiculous.

Actually, just for your info, it is banned in Colorado casinos.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by phan52

OK. Let's hear a logical and reasonable reason for people to smoke (or dip) in the first place.

It's not that there is a logical and reasonable reason for people to smoke, other than people like to smoke.  It's just that some people think the 2nd hand smoke crusaders are a little overboard, and others want to blame smoking for all the health ills of the world.

Smoking definitely increases the likelihood of very specific and serious health problems.  However, for most people in the U.S. who smoke, it's not even their least healthy habit.  Poor diet and inactivity are far more likely to cause serious and lasting health problems in a greater number of people than smoking.

I've always had trouble with the fact that the U.S. still has a very poor life expectancy compared to other countries where smoking rates are off the charts.  Japan, Greece, Spain, Italy, and a few others come to mind.  (I haven't been to Japan, but it seems that nearly all of the Japanese tourists who come to Hawaii smoke, and sure enough--they're on the list.)

Quick reference to two links (it's Wiki, so take it for what it's worth):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

First is cigarette consumption per capita, and the second is life expectancy using WHO stats.

Look at the top 40 countries in both categories (i.e. the 40 heaviest smoking countries and 40 "healthiest" by measure of life expectancy).  I picked the number 40 because the U.S.A. is ranked 40th in life expectancy on this chart, so it seemed to make sense to look at countries that are all "healthier" than the U.S.

14 countries (of over 190 listed) are in the top 40 both for heaviest smoking and longest lives.  That seems odd.  Of course, it's not possible to discuss what, if anything, this means without exposing one's inherent political bias and prejudices.  I suspect, however, that for Americans at least, fast food and laziness is far more lethal than Marlboros.

[mtsalmela80]

Originally Posted by phan52

OK. Let's hear a logical and reasonable reason for people to smoke (or dip) in the first place.

Because people like the little buzz. Same reason people drink, which is 100000000% more potentially harmful than smoking when abused.

Guess what, Uncle Sam makes a killing on both so they are not going anywhere.

Complain about it? All you accomplish is a higher blood pressure.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

OK. Let's hear a logical and reasonable reason for people to smoke (or dip) in the first place.

Because people like the little buzz. Same reason people drink, which is 100000000% more potentially harmful than smoking when abused.

Guess what, Uncle Sam makes a killing on both so they are not going anywhere.

Complain about it? All you accomplish is a higher blood pressure.

Not really true.  Why do you think that smoking is banned in most public places in the US?  Because nonsmokers started complaining about the intrusion on their space - because of both the health hazards and the stench.  I've even seen proposals put out for banning it in private homes when there are children living there.  Smokers need to get used to the fact that they are a minority now, and the pressure from the majority to eradicate smoking completely isn't going away.

[ilikefishes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

OK. Let's hear a logical and reasonable reason for people to smoke (or dip) in the first place.

Because people like the little buzz. Same reason people drink, which is 100000000% more potentially harmful than smoking when abused.

Guess what, Uncle Sam makes a killing on both so they are not going anywhere.

Complain about it? All you accomplish is a higher blood pressure.

Not really true.  Why do you think that smoking is banned in most public places in the US?  Because nonsmokers started complaining about the intrusion on their space - because of both the health hazards and the stench.  I've even seen proposals put out for banning it in private homes when there are children living there.  Smokers need to get used to the fact that they are a minority now, and the pressure from the majority to eradicate smoking completely isn't going away.

What are you talking about? In one breath you talk about how much you hate all these smokers. And then you say that they are a minority and are being eradicated. You realize this is asinine? You are NEVER going to get rid of smokers and the things they smoke. Been to a college campus lately? Or how about a hookah lounge?

[jamo]

What are you talking about? In one breath you talk about how much you hate all these smokers. And then you say that they are a minority and are being eradicated. You realize this is asinine? You are NEVER going to get rid of smokers and the things they smoke. Been to a college campus lately? Or how about a hookah lounge?

That may be my favorite analogy ever. That's like if I said, "Hey man, everyone in the world speaks German. Ever been to Berlin?!?"

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by jamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikefishes

What are you talking about? In one breath you talk about how much you hate all these smokers. And then you say that they are a minority and are being eradicated. You realize this is asinine? You are NEVER going to get rid of smokers and the things they smoke. Been to a college campus lately? Or how about a hookah lounge?

That may be my favorite analogy ever. That's like if I said, "Hey man, everyone in the world speaks German. Ever been to Berlin?!?"

When did I ever say the word hate?  If I ever use that word, it is applied to the act of using tobacco, never, ever to the smoker.  And i would definitely never dislike a person solely because he smoked.  I have several friends who smoke (and I will unfortunately be losing a couple of them soon because their habit is killing them).  A person can be opposed to smoking without hating smokers.

@ Jamo:  Good one!  What else would you expect to find in a smoking lounge? And to fishes:  No, I never have, and never will go to a hookah lounge.  Can't imagine any scenario which would put me in one.

[mtsalmela80]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Not really true.  Why do you think that smoking is banned in most public places in the US?  Because nonsmokers started complaining about the intrusion on their space - because of both the health hazards and the stench.  I've even seen proposals put out for banning it in private homes when there are children living there.  Smokers need to get used to the fact that they are a minority now, and the pressure from the majority to eradicate smoking completely isn't going away.

Do you honestly believe that smoking will be eradicated in this country, ever?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Not really true.  Why do you think that smoking is banned in most public places in the US?  Because nonsmokers started complaining about the intrusion on their space - because of both the health hazards and the stench.  I've even seen proposals put out for banning it in private homes when there are children living there.  Smokers need to get used to the fact that they are a minority now, and the pressure from the majority to eradicate smoking completely isn't going away.

Do you honestly believe that smoking will be eradicated in this country, ever?

How's your reading?  Go back and read what I actually wrote.

[MexBurtReynolds]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Do you honestly believe that smoking will be eradicated in this country, ever?

Not as long as there are golf courses.

[ilikefishes]

Mr. Fourputt, you clearly stated, "Smokers need to get used to the fact that they are a minority now, and the pressure from the majority to eradicate smoking completely isn't going away."  I am confused where your stance is.  Maybe you can clarify?

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by ilikefishes

Mr. Fourputt, you clearly stated, "Smokers need to get used to the fact that they are a minority now, and the pressure from the majority to eradicate smoking completely isn't going away."  I am confused where your stance is.  Maybe you can clarify?

He said the majority will put pressure to eradicate smoking, he did not claim they will be successful.  It's called reading comprehension.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikefishes

Mr. Fourputt, you clearly stated, "Smokers need to get used to the fact that they are a minority now, and the pressure from the majority to eradicate smoking completely isn't going away."  I am confused where your stance is.  Maybe you can clarify?

He said the majority will put pressure to eradicate smoking, he did not claim they will be successful.  It's called reading comprehension.

Precisely.  I don't see the anti-smoking lobby giving up any time soon.

[Zachari208]

I could play eighteen smoking at most one or two cigarettes. Problem is, admittedly most my own, my playing partners or groups ahead have to take practice swings forever before every failed attempt. Im not great at golf by any means and usually much worse when slow play is going on. This mostly because I'll drink a lot more and smoke, just keeps me in good spirits and enjoy my rounds, regardless of my scores. I would never hit into or want to feel I was rushing other players. They are there to enjoy themselves too. So I'll respect their time on the course, as they should mine.

[Dave2512]

Played as a guest in an alcoholics anonymous scramble on Sat, lots of smokers. It was more than just getting a occasional whiff. They actually had two AA tournaments that started at the same time and it was slow from the start, A and B groups of four on each hole with two more groups that started 15 minutes later. There were times 16 people were waiting at some holes. Certainly not normal volume but I got to see up close how a large group of smokers behave. I had people standing right next to me puffing away all day. Not one was concerned with their proximity to nonsmokers. Nobody in our group smoked, all family and friends. I gutted it out for them, it was their AA group, but it was torture.