Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
boogielicious

Saucer Chip Shot Method ruled Illegal

Note: This thread is 2750 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

81 posts / 11532 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/lepps-unorthodox-saucer-chip-shot-ruled-illegal/

Quote:

After James Lepp successfully used an unusual "saucer" chipping style to reach the finals of "Big Break: Greenbrier" last year, it appeared a new type of shot from around the green was born. Instead, several of golf's ruling bodies came together this week to announce the shot violates the Rules of Golf.

According to a report from the Vancouver Sun , the decision was reached after a meeting of a joint rules committee with representatives of the R&A;, USGA and Golf Canada.

"The rule that would be breached is Rule 14-1 that says in part the club can't be pushed, spooned or scraped," explained Dale Jackson, chairman of Golf Canada's rules committee. "Scraped here basically means you are intentionally dragging or pulling the club along the ground before it hits the ball, which is what he does."

Lepp, who in 2005 became the first Canadian male to win a Division I NCAA championship while at the University of Washington, invented the shot to combat struggles from tight lies around the greens. Derivative of a saucer pass in hockey, the stroke involves a short backswing during which the club does not leave the ground.

"We had dealt with the issue in Canada when James did his demonstration videos on his Web site and    we felt it was a conforming stroke at that time," he added. "But when he did it on the Big Break, the   USGA got a bunch of calls and they came to a different conclusion and as a result of that, the powers that be, the R&A;, the USGA and Golf Canada, who all sit on the joint rules committee, considered it and viewed it as non-conforming."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I remember seeing this on Big Break. Honestly, I am kind of surprised that they ruled this to be illegal. I think that this type of shot represents one of the better aspects of golf, creativity. Disappointing ruling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guess that next on the prohibited list will be using the bounce while pitching (conventionally). Because I am definitely "intentionally dragging the club along the ground" and have a complete lack of divots to prove it. You could split hairs and say well, am I deliberately doing this "before it hits the ball"? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly I'm doing all I can to ensure that if (when) I do catch the shot fat -- the club will "scrape" or "pull" along the ground rather than dig in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Stretch

Guess that next on the prohibited list will be using the bounce while pitching (conventionally). Because I am definitely "intentionally dragging the club along the ground" and have a complete lack of divots to prove it. You could split hairs and say well, am I deliberately doing this "before it hits the ball"? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly I'm doing all I can to ensure that if (when) I do catch the shot fat -- the club will "scrape" or "pull" along the ground rather than dig in.

The point being that the club never really leaves the ground in Lepp's shot, and that is a classic scrape which hasn't been legal since before any of us was born.  I don't know what Golf Canada was thinking when they allowed it in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

This is an effective shot? Maybe from a tight lie, but I would think any presence of grass would make dragging the clubhead at least as risky as not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lepp says here he wants to keep the club on the ground throughout the shot.  He definitely looks like he drags the club before he hits the shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The problem I have with the USGA and other ruling bodies is they are waiting too long to make decisions on what is and isn't a legal golf shot.  The fact that they reviewed this stroke at one point and deemed it legal only to overturn it because Lepp won the Big Break and more people began to use it makes it seem like they are half as*ing their initial rulings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by newtogolf

The problem I have with the USGA and other ruling bodies is they are waiting too long to make decisions on what is and isn't a legal golf shot.  The fact that they reviewed this stroke at one point and deemed it legal only to overturn it because Lepp won the Big Break and more people began to use it makes it seem like they are half as*ing their initial rulings.

Neither the USGA nor the R&A; ever reviewed the shot.....

Golf Canada did, and in some drug induced fit of stupidity ruled it legal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by David in FL

Neither the USGA nor the R&A; ever reviewed the shot.....

Golf Canada did, and in some drug induced fit of stupidity ruled it legal.

Okay, that makes more sense.  When I read the sentence, "we had dealt with the issue in Canada", I thought the "we" was all the ruling committees, not just Golf Canada.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by David in FL

Neither the USGA nor the R&A; ever reviewed the shot.....

Golf Canada did, and in some drug induced fit of stupidity ruled it legal.

The R&A; were asked about it about five months ago via a query on their website. They ruled it illegal then.

However they were not aware the RCGA had ruled otherwise. The RGCA were not aware of the R&A;'s ruling as it was made to an individual who posted it on a UK forum.

Early in March I asked an Asian colleague to speak to the R&A; instructors at a R&A; Rules School to be held later in March in Singapore. He was told that both the R&A; and USGA considered it to be scraping. As the RCGA were involved it was referred to the next JRC meeting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem I have with the USGA and other ruling bodies is they are waiting too long to make decisions on what is and isn't a legal golf shot.  The fact that they reviewed this stroke at one point and deemed it legal only to overturn it because Lepp won the Big Break and more people began to use it makes it seem like they are half as*ing their initial rulings.

Mark Silvers won Big Break. I ran into him at the Monday After the Masters golf tourney here in MB a few weeks ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by newtogolf

The problem I have with the USGA and other ruling bodies is they are waiting too long to make decisions on what is and isn't a legal golf shot.  The fact that they reviewed this stroke at one point and deemed it legal only to overturn it because Lepp won the Big Break and more people began to use it makes it seem like they are half as*ing their initial rulings.

As you can see from later posts, there was no delay aside from putting it on the agenda for the next JRC meeting.  Not like it was so urgent that they had to call an emergency meeting for it.  The USGA and the R&A; were not even involved in the Canadian ruling, which was clearly wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It amazes me how every ruling is now attacked by some (ridiculous, to me) slippery slope argument that they are going to outlaw all kids of things because they ruled this thing illegal.  They aren't going to stop people from using the bounce on their pitch shots.  This has happened throughout the banned anchored putting discussion and it happened during the Tiger drop controversy.  Why people think the ruling bodies are a bunch of dolts is completely beyond me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Someone made the following comment which is an interesting look at this issue.

"I'm not sure it's that clear. The Rule states that the ball must be 'fairly struck.... and not be scraped or spooned'.... I feel that the spirit of the Rule is to limit contact time between the implement (clubhead) and the ball so as to avoid unfair maneuvering of the ball while in contact with the clubface. James Lepp doesn't scrape the ball, he hits the ball after his club scrapes the ground. The ball's contact time with the clubface is no more than a conventional chipping stroke. I think that if he put the club immediately behind the ball and scraped the ground, with the ball 'riding' the club face whilst the scraping motion continued, that it would meet the circumstances of 'scraping' the ball as the Rule was intended to define and prohibit.

That's an issue with Rules interpretations when there's so little information. The way I read the Rule, it's one or the other, A or B. A ball is either struck (A) or it's not struck (B). One is acute and brief (A) and one is prolonged and manipulative (B). Examples of B include spooning, scraping, pushing, all of which (again, the way I read the Rule) are occurring to the ball while the club is in contact with it. There is no mention of activity prior to contact. The way I look at it, whatever happens before Mr. Lepp's club makes contact with the ball is irrelevant as it relates to this specific Rule and at the exact moment of contact, his strike on the ball is identical to a conventional chipping strike/hit and does not violate rule 14-1. Now, if they want to add additional verbiage to that Rule stating that the delivery method of the club prior to the moment of contact must not involve scraping of the ground, that's another (once more, in my opinion) issue completely."

I certainly think that the "saucer shot" doesn't look like golf and I have no problem with that style being prohibited.  Still, the points raised above are well presented.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

'Scraping', to me, that's what that motion looks like. To 'Spoon' it would be to put the club directly behind the ball and sort of flip the club with the ball resting on it.

Either one ain't a stroke.

Aside from that, I don't see how that method could work in rough or in any situation where the grass is not uniform behind the ball for a foot or so. This is destined to the same scrap heap as Snead's croquet putting style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by David in FL

Neither the USGA nor the R&A; ever reviewed the shot.....

Golf Canada did, and in some drug induced fit of stupidity ruled it legal.

Hate to be stereotypical, but wouldn't it be a "Molson" induced fit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

That looks like such a hard shot to be consistent with. All I need is another motion added to my swing IMO, annoying looking shot and not something that would be helpful anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note: This thread is 2750 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    SuperSpeed
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    Whoop
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo
  • Posts

    • PGA2K21 is good. I play it on the PS4. 
    • Day 83 - Spent more time filming swings. It seems I’m correct at A2 or A3, getting both to be what I’m looking for isn’t working. Have more work to do before sending in more swings. 
    • Rule 2 - The Course Notes as follows. These are notes, not a recap or a summary or anything like that. 2.1 - Course Boundaries and Out of Bounds The Committee has to decide where boundaries are. 2.2 - Defined Areas of the Course There are five: general area the teeing area the green penalty area bunker If the ball is in two areas, it's treated as lying in the general area last, or in the order: penalty area, bunker, putting green. 2.3 - Objects or Conditions that can Interfere with Play Just links to other rules for loose impediments, movable obstructions, abnormal course conditions, GUR, temporary water, or immovable obstructions. No relief for boundary objects. 2.4 - No Play Zones Must take relief when ball, stance, area of swing interfered with here can be an ACC or a penalty area
    • Pm back at ya Piz.  This should be fun.  Thank you Adam as well.  We’ll have to keep comparing notes next spring when the weather gets better.  
    • Last lesson of the year today 12/2: Full swing stuff - backswing and tempo were much improved which is what I’ve been working on so happy with that. We discussed the block fade miss caused by open club face. My transition is aggressive which pulls the club face open when the handle of the club starts moving too quickly (or something like that). Quick fix was to have a feel for the club head moving and widening the arc before the handle starts going. Did some work on this at about 75% full speed and then added speed back as I got the hang of it. Putting work - did a putter fitting and when selecting the alignment aid design, I learned that they don’t matter at all for how I aim. Apparently no matter where the target was, I tended to line my aim up around the spatial configuration of the putting area (e.g., aiming parallel to the edge of the putting surface, or a nearby wall). Once I was aware of this behavior and able to consciously overcome it, my initial aim was really good. When I scheduled the fitting with my teacher I had my mind made up on something from the Edel product line, but I tried one of those ridiculous looking LAB putters and it was undeniably good for me, so that’s what I ended up going with.
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. bm85
      bm85
      (35 years old)
    2. canadianpro
      canadianpro
      (75 years old)
    3. deryl50
      deryl50
      (53 years old)
    4. Facialman
      Facialman
      (73 years old)
    5. lowtidecharters
      lowtidecharters
      (41 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...