Ban Belly Putters?

[chriskzoo]

Originally Posted by allin

I suspect that fear of legal action is a big part of the decision by USGA and R&A; at this time. When they have been allowed for so long manufacturers, ADA concerns, disgruntled purchasers have an easier time taking legal action. The ruling bodies have to present more compelling reasons than if they had recently been introduced.

There is no case.  The USGA and R&A; make arbitrary rules, just as the NFL does, and there is no more case against banning the belly putter as there is against not being able to make legal driver heads over 460cc.

All I know is that they weer probably none too happy to see a 3-way playoff yesterday with 2 young guys using belly putters.  I bet they will ban it at the end of this season.

[newtogolf]

I agree it's not an "unfair advantage" since today anyone can choose to anchor a long putter to their body.

I am not aware of anyone that learned to putt with a long / belly putter anchored to the body but with their popularity today I can see it happening in the future.  Most people I see anchoring the putter to their body made the switch due to putting problems and/or the yips with standard length putters and putting techniques.  In those instances there's no question anchoring provides that individual with an advantage because they are the first to admit they cannot putt as effectively with a standard length putter and non-anchored swing.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by photoballmarker

I vote no. Putting is the most unique part of golf. The argument suggesting it is an unfair advantage is silly. It is only valid if you are not allowed to use one while your opponents can. If everybody is allowed to use them then it is not an unfair advantage. The argument that it takes less skill to use is also really silly unless you are going to outlaw every putter other that the two sided flat bullseye. The argument about anchoring is also silly because the putter is already anchored by the hands. Wow, I can hear it already, you putter touched a part of your body that is not your hands, two stroke penalty.

Your point abut anchoring with the hands is kind of silly.  Anchoring means a relatively unmoving connection point, as the putting is anchored in the players belly.  That is completely different from the role of the hands, which is NOT anchoring.

I don't think the unfair advantage argument has much merit, but I still favor not allowing anchoring. There are a lot of things that would not confer an unfair advantage that should not be allowed.  A rule allowing the foot wedge would not confer an unfair advantage if everyone could do it, but it is clearly against the spirit of the game.  The whole unfair advantage argument is really just a red herring, IMO.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I have no intention of ever using one, but I agree with not ever banning them.

That is your right and privilege on both counts, but just to clarify, when you say you agree, it is not with me, as I favor disallowing any anchoring.

[FutureTourPro]

Should the USGA/RA ban anchoring the putter to the torso?
If so why?

[pixel5]

I voted yes because I just think they look dumb. I don't see many winners using long putters as compared to guys who use normal ones, so if there is an advantage it must have more to do with the head than the game itself.

[Topper]

I don't have enough information to vote. I haven't gone through every post but is there a statistical difference in putting performance for those using belly putters vs those that do not.  As more people use belly putters, more will then obviously be in a position to win while using one.  Alone, that's really not that significant.  If there isn't really a statistical difference in putting performance, then I'm not inclined to vote for banning them.  If there is a statistically significant difference for those using belly putters, then you could argue that the belly putter has "changed the nature of the game" and banning should be more closely examined.  Given that anyone is free to use one, I don't think we can say that the current rules represent an unfair advantage.  Have any belly vs non-belly stats been posted?

[Texian]

Originally Posted by Topper

If there isn't really a statistical difference in putting performance, then I'm not inclined to vote for banning them.  If there is a statistically significant difference for those using belly putters, then you could argue that the belly putter has "changed the nature of the game" and banning should be more closely examined.

That's a great argument. Now that I think about it, metal drivers have probably "changed the nature of the game" and we should all be forced to go back to using persimmon.

[lifestudy]

Yes, ban them, absolutely for pro golf and for amateurs allow only for seniors.

[carpediem4300]

Yes, ban for pros or those who are fit enough to use a normal one Age/Medical exemptions only

My best golfing pal just hit 50 but is still in good health but his back has weakened to the point he cant consitantly bend over to address the ball without taking him off his feet for a few days after with back pain,

so hes had his irons all changed to -3 degrees flat to help in his taller set up, and he's switched to a belly better again to save his back,...

i personally dont have a problem with this, its the only way he can play the game because of his back, and id rather he played and enjoyed it than not played or really struggled to play

absolutely no reason a pro with all the time in the world to get proficient at putting should be using one

[mosnas]

Is there not a ban for driver lengths as well? Why not just ban all putters longer than 37 inches or something like that.  If they are gonna ban it they should definitly publish a study to see if it really does give an advantage.  These guys are the best of the best and if they are shaving that many putting strokes off their game with the belly putters than they should do it.

The only thing I see it as is if they are that big of an advantage then how come everyone isn't using them?

[tonycarnevale]

I say ban. A golf club is something that is help in your hands only, not your hands and belly. It adds a fixed point to be swung from and I don't thats right. In my opinion it has nothing to do with weather or not the putter helps the players or not. They make the max length of a club 48"  I believe and the guys on tour arn't using the max length. There are rules in place to protect the game; and the additional point of contact should be banned not just the length of the putter.

[ajst22]

Nah...there really isn't any proof that they drastically improve your putting, just look at the stats/numbers. It isn't a steroid vs non steroid difference (just as an example). The reason it works for some people is a confidence thing. Other people feel more confident using a regular putter.

[tonycarnevale]

[tonycarnevale]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajst22

Nah...there really isn't any proof that they drastically improve your putting, just look at the stats/numbers. It isn't a steroid vs non steroid difference (just as an example). The reason it works for some people is a confidence thing. Other people feel more confident using a regular putter.

......

Originally Posted by tonycarnevale

It adds a fixed point to be swung from and I don't thats right.

[Breako]

Thats a stupid analogy comparing mallet an blade putters to this issue. A player swings both a mallet or blade putter. With this a player is actually groind the end of his club to his belly area to stabilize it. It is not a free swing. Second, half you people in here need some basic HS level instruction in Logic. Just because someone has not won a major with it or it has not taken over the game does not mean it fails to give one an advantage. The real data is to look at the putting stats of players who use it before they adopted it and after. A highschooler with a reasonable IQ would know that. If all the ohr clubs in the bag are limited to 48 inches, the putter should be as well. Whats next, a putter shaped like a Y and at the end of each of the top Y legs you have a curved bar which you hang over your shoulders? That would e accomplishing basically the same thing as a belly putter, using other parts of the body other than thebhands to rest and stabilize the club against. Would you Pro belly putter fanatics be ok with such a Y shaped club, and if not why are you ok with a belly putter which basically does the same thing???

[Breako]

Nah...there really isn't any proof that they drastically improve your putting, just look at the stats/numbers. It isn't a steroid vs non steroid difference (just as an example). The reason it works for some people is a confidence thing. Other people feel more confident using a regular putter.

Heres a little newsflash: if they are more confident with it, its because they are making more puts with it. The confidence is coming from made puts, not the other wayvaround. They certainly would not be more confident with it if using it caused them to make the same or less puts than before.

[x129]

Actually they only have to think they are making more putts. The reality of them making more putts doesn't matter. Guys like VJ and Sergio have switched back and forth between long putters and short ones with pretty much the same results. A lot of the confidence is just a shell game. They putt poorly for a bit so they switch to something else and life is good. Then they start missing putts and switch back and the cycle continues.

So far the belly putter guys have not dominated the putting stats. Wether that is a result of only poor putters using them, not enough of them on tour, or the putter just doesn't help that much it is hard to say. Several PGA guys have said they are sinking everything within 10 ft but that lag putting was harder. But i have never seen specific numbers (i.e. you sink 75% of 10 fter instead of 50% or leave 50footers at 5 feet instead of 3ft) to suggest it is any better than when a guy buys a scotty and thinks everything is dropping.

They should still ban them for anyone under 50....

Quote:

Heres a little newsflash: if they are more confident with it, its because they are making more puts with it. The confidence is coming from made puts, not the other wayvaround. They certainly would not be more confident with it if using it caused them to make the same or less puts than before.

[Valleygolfer]

I say keep em. Ban the anchor point. Club should not be in contact with the body.