Ban Belly Putters?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I understand your position and for a long time agreed with it.  The issue as I see it is the one set of rules will cause the USGA to pick a side, especially if the R&A; moves forward and bans anchoring of the putter.   Either they agree with the R&A; and ban anchoring (which is primarily targeted at the pro's) but would hurt amatuer participation (a big no no in the USGA) or they go against the R&A; which would result in the US and Europe having a different set of rules.

You don't know that it will hurt amateur participation.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

You don't know that it will hurt amateur participation.

Yeah, I doubt that it would.

I, admittedly, don't play as much as others (twice a month or so) but I have actually never noticed anybody using a belly or long putter in person ... only the guys on TV.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yeah, I doubt that it would.

I, admittedly, don't play as much as others (twice a month or so) but I have actually never noticed anybody using a belly or long putter in person ... only the guys on TV.

I've seen a few, but there's no proof those guys wouldn't simply switch to "regular" putters.

If you want to claim it hurts your back, well, then I'd respond (not to you golfingdad) in one of two ways:

1) you bend over just as much with a belly putter, so that's not it

2) get a longer putter and use it like Ray Floyd or Angel Cabrera (not anchored - just longer with a more upright stance)

[onlybereaved]

Originally Posted by allin

Yes I would ban belly putters, or any club or technique which anchors the club to a part of the body other than the arms and hands. I would also limit putter length to the same length as maximum driver length. This would exclude long putters that are anchored to the chin, chest, arm etc., but still allow reasonably long putters. There probably ought to be a maximum grip length and size also. Do current users gain an unfair advantage? Probably not on balance since they can be tough to use on long putts. In principle when a technique varies so much that a basic golf skill is bypassed then it becomes a problem. I feel long putters and belly putters threaten this principle.

Ban Hammer!

[WUTiger]

July 30 edition of SI has made longer putters a major theme in its discussion of Els and the Open Championship. Article implied ban on belly and broomstick might be just around the corner.

[bplewis24]

One can only hope! :)

[DonnelyTR]

No, don't ban the long putter. It offers no competitive advantage.  If you want to ban a truly unfair club, ban the hybrid.  That club give length to someone who cannot hit a long iron or wood decently.  And it does so immediately without requiring any additional skill what-so-ever.

[Bayou Boogie]

Originally Posted by photoballmarker

I vote no. Putting is the most unique part of golf. The argument suggesting it is an unfair advantage is silly. It is only valid if you are not allowed to use one while your opponents can. If everybody is allowed to use them then it is not an unfair advantage. The argument that it takes less skill to use is also really silly unless you are going to outlaw every putter other that the two sided flat bullseye. The argument about anchoring is also silly because the putter is already anchored by the hands. Wow, I can hear it already, you putter touched a part of your body that is not your hands, two stroke penalty.

I sometimes putt with my right elbow against my right hip--it is anchored in a sense--the elbow becomes a pivot point and helps steady the nerves--should that be illegal also?

[inthecup]

Sorry I have not read through this whole thread so forgive me if this ground has already been covered.  The real game changers in recent history are Drivers and Balls.  Driving the ball the distances the pro's do now made courses obsolete and they made it easier for everyone to hit it longer. Balls same thing.   The long putter is helpful to some but not all.  Are the people that want to ban the long putters still hitting Persimmon and using Balata balls?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by inthecup

Sorry I have not read through this whole thread so forgive me if this ground has already been covered. The real game changers in recent history are Drivers and Balls.  Driving the ball the distances the pro's do now made courses obsolete and they made it easier for everyone to hit it longer. Balls same thing. The long putter is helpful to some but not all. Are the people that want to ban the long putters still hitting Persimmon and using Balata balls?

No.

People still swing - they make the same "stroke" at the ball - with a modern driver as they always have. The balls still conform to the same exact rules they have for decades.

The problem people who oppose belly putters have with them is that the stroke is fundamentally different due to the anchoring.

P.S. And even if there were two things that needed "fixing" it's not logical to say "you have to fix both or neither - you can't just fix one."

[Valleygolfer]

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/rex-hoggard/players-will-conform-if-not-agree-with-long-putter-ruling/?cid=facebook_A_gc_LONGPUTTERRULING_091212

So it looks like we are getting closer. I personally think that Tim Clark's excuse that he cannot the putter is fairly lame since he has no problem holding a normal club to hit with. Adjust the grip accordingly or use one of the many other grips. Almost as bad as Ol pot belly petterson's excuse that losing weight ruins his swing. I think he just wants to be fat, so what. Be fat. I hope they ban it before next year. Anchoring the putter takes too much off the talent of having a great putting stroke, it eliminates a plane of movement that makes putting more challenging.

[iacas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/rex-hoggard/players-will-conform-if-not-agree-with-long-putter-ruling/?cid=facebook_A_gc_LONGPUTTERRULING_091212

One key phrase from that article (to me):

Quote:

Pettersson conceded that if the rule is changed he would consider a legal challenge given his historical use of the broom-handle putter. He also pointed out that unlike the rule change to grooves in 2010 a potential ruling on long putters, “doesn’t apply to everyone.”

It applies to everyone. He's also not "fifteen years behind" because guys switch putters every week on the PGA Tour - it's not a hard skill to pick up, going from a belly or a long putter to a regular putter.

Stupid things to say Carl.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by iacas

One key phrase from that article (to me):

Quote:

Pettersson conceded that if the rule is changed he would consider a legal challenge given his historical use of the broom-handle putter. He also pointed out that unlike the rule change to grooves in 2010 a potential ruling on long putters, “doesn’t apply to everyone.”

It applies to everyone. He's also not "fifteen years behind" because guys switch putters every week on the PGA Tour - it's not a hard skill to pick up, going from a belly or a long putter to a regular putter.

Stupid things to say Carl.

I think it would be naive to think that there won't be any legal challenges regarding this ruling. Unfortunately, when you pass something that may affect someone's way to make their living, legal challenges are sure to follow. Here are 2 arguments that both have 2 sides. He is trying to make the case that he is being singled out because of his use of the long putter (along with 15% of the Tour) and that because he has too much time invested that it would be a hardship to have to relearn the standard method. I don't think that these points are as strong as the precedent that was allowed to go on for 20+ years. Even that point would be hard to defend.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I think it would be naive to think that there won't be any legal challenges regarding this ruling.

I wasn't saying that, though I will say I don't personally think they'd have any grounds for such a lawsuit. Players play, rulesmakers make the rules. Kick returners couldn't legitimately (IMO) sue when the NFL moved the kickoff point up almost completely negating their value.

People can sue for just about anything, but again IMO suing in this case would be groundless.

[Valleygolfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/rex-hoggard/players-will-conform-if-not-agree-with-long-putter-ruling/?cid=facebook_A_gc_LONGPUTTERRULING_091212

One key phrase from that article (to me):

Quote:

Pettersson conceded that if the rule is changed he would consider a legal challenge given his historical use of the broom-handle putter. He also pointed out that unlike the rule change to grooves in 2010 a potential ruling on long putters, “doesn’t apply to everyone.”

It applies to everyone. He's also not "fifteen years behind" because guys switch putters every week on the PGA Tour - it's not a hard skill to pick up, going from a belly or a long putter to a regular putter.

Stupid things to say Carl.

He says some stupid things so I am not surprised..... Doesn't want to lose weight because he says he can't play well that way...

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by iacas

I wasn't saying that...

I wasn't saying that you were saying that...it was my editorial comment for the masses.

I don't see the grounds for it either.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

I wasn't saying that, though I will say I don't personally think they'd have any grounds for such a lawsuit. Players play, rulesmakers make the rules. Kick returners couldn't legitimately (IMO) sue when the NFL moved the kickoff point up almost completely negating their value.

People can sue for just about anything, but again IMO suing in this case would be groundless.

Totally agree, with your keyword being "legitimately."  The equivalent baseball scenario would be if they decided to finally eliminate the DH.  It wouldn't be legitimate, but it also wouldn't surprise me if an Edgar Martinez or David Ortiz type attempted to bring a lawsuit against MLB.

There seems to be no grounds for a successful lawsuit (I had to throw in "seems" because you never know these days with judges and juries) as far as the putters are concerned, but somebody might try anyway.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I think it would be naive to think that there won't be any legal challenges regarding this ruling. Unfortunately, when you pass something that may affect someone's way to make their living, legal challenges are sure to follow.

If that were necessarily true, there would have been lawsuits following other rule changes (grooves, club length, etc.).

IMO it would be a frivolous lawsuit anyway unless the case were being made on handicapped-discrimination grounds (which I still ultimately think should fail, but at least it might get off the ground).