A cure for slow play

[D-Man]

Originally Posted by Paradox

I never said it interfered with my round, either.  But alas, we jump to extreme analogies.

My point was that if you're taking 120+ strokes...you shouldn't even be worried with what you're shooting and have no problem picking up when you've obviously used up a bit of time on a particular hole.  Playing an easier course would make the game more enjoyable for said golfer and also allow them to improve without people beating down their backs for an entire round.  I don't have any delusions about people not being ALLOWED to play..but I would like for everyone who picks up golf to be able to enjoy it and speaking from my own personality..it wouldn't be fun if I were struggling and I felt like someone was also constantly watching.

If you shoot 120+ I'm willing to bet 100% of the time wasted is looking for lost balls in the woods, native grass ect.  When I was starting out I bought the cheapest balls I could find, it was like $0.33 a ball.  If I hit it more than a few feet into the woods, I wouldn't even bother looking for it.  I would just drop where it went in and continue to play.  If the majority of people did this, there wouldn't be any slow play issues.

Either way, this tread isn't going to solve the slow play issue.  In fact courses need those players because they are new to the game and that's what keeps the revenue flowing for everyone in the golf biz.  I'm lucky, my work schedule allows me to be at the course by 9AM on any given day of the week and out of there by 1pm or sooner 99% of the time.  There's nothing like playing golf at 9AM on a Tuesday, there's hardly anyone at the course!!!

[jfrain2004]

clarkgriswold hit it on the nail.  The guy that hits it out 180yrd on a par 5 then waits for green to clear before hitting his next 350yrd 3 wood is the type of golfer I can't hack. And D-Man is spot on as well with the guys that play with dimpled golden nuggets.  They hit a ball OOB and proceed to follow it.  Courses are to blame here for allowing gaps in their perimiter that encourages guys to go looking for balls they have hit OOB.  Am I correct in saying that according to the rules of golf you are qutomatically disqualified from a competition if you leave the course ie  go to retrieve a ball that is OOB?

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by jfrain2004

The guy that hits it out 180yrd on a par 5 then waits for green to clear before hitting his next 350yrd 3 wood is the type of golfer I can't hack.

Although, sadly, that guy sure can!

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Although, sadly, that guy sure can!

Hmmm...If he changed those numbers to 230 and 270 I would think he was watching my two putt for birdie on Saturday.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by D-Man

True.  I was just trying to state that ESC is used for handicapping purposes, it's wasn't intended to be used for letting you know when to pick up your ball.

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you're doing anything where you can just pick up (i.e. you're not playing a real competition), then I still don't see what's so wrong about using ESC as your guide. :D

Just pick up. You'll turn in the same score for handicapping, and if you're picking up you've lost the hole in your friendly betting match where you can pick up (i.e. not a real competition/tournament). The only thing that's different is the answer to "what'd you shoot today?" and if you don't care about that, and care about pace of play, pick up.

[RayG]

If you shoot 120+ I'm willing to bet 100% of the time wasted is looking for lost balls in the woods, native grass ect.  When I was starting out I bought the cheapest balls I could find, it was like $0.33 a ball.  If I hit it more than a few feet into the woods, I wouldn't even bother looking for it.  I would just drop where it went in and continue to play.  If the majority of people did this, there wouldn't be any slow play issues.

I'm going to disagree a bit on this one- IF you're shooting 120+, chances are you cant hit it far enough to make it into the woods or the deep stuff. My Mom never shot better than 120, and she would hit it dead straight... just not far. 100yds tops off the tee. My guess is- if you think you are JUST starting to get better with some distance is when it all falls apart. That's when your CPB (Cost per Ball) makes a difference. You CAN hit it far enough to get into the deep stuff or the woods, but you're playing "pro" balls and want to take as long as it takes. And when you find it and have "no shot", you saw Bubba do a shot "kind of like it", and give a mighty wallop aiming for a shopping bag size opening 40 yards away under the trees, but OVER the trap and stream. After retrieving the ball from your left testicle- you try again... But your buddies miss it, because they're still laughing at the first one that crushed your nut. And nobody knows where it went, so you walk/drive at a snails pace looking everywhere as if you were looking for landmines in Cambodia. Find it behind some bushes, hack out to the fairway, dribble a couple, clank one into the lake, drop on the wrong side, chip into the bunker, 3 slashes to the fringe, 4 putt... "Put me down for a 6.... I was interfered with". Now, put 4 of those guys in one group, and it isn't funny anymore...

[BostonBrew]

Yesterday, I played with a friend and two guys he knew. On multiple occasions, I'd be sitting on the green and waiting while the three of them looked for one of the others' ball. I would often finish my hole and then go look for a minute or so. Then we got to the second par 3 on the front nine. My friend was also on the green while his two buddies were off in the woods. The foursome behind us was on the tee box waiting for us to clear the green. I told him to go ahead and putt while the others continued their search. He looked at me like I was suggesting he break into a car and steal a wallet or something. I realized pace of play never even occurred to him. He's a 100+ golfer. He knows the rules in a rudimentary fashion as well as the common courtesies and etiquettes. But he hadn't given any consideration to the golfers behind us. Fortunately, the other two guys were aware and gave up their search, marked a double-par on the scorecard and we moved on.

I think a lot of the pace of play problems results from the guys like my friend. He just doesn't think about the pace of play or the groups behind him. He's going to hit bad shots. He's then bound and determined to look for the ball, no matter where it is. And he'll hack it out and continue playing. Fortunately, he's not a ball-hawk who cares about always finding his ball and I was able to teach him about hitting a provisional and that sped up our pace a fair amount on the back nine.

[Dave2512]

We actually had two more rangers than usual on the course yesterday. I only played 9 but twice I saw the rangers assisting in ball searches. Evidently there's been a lot of recent slow play complaints. I spoke with the ranger while waiting on the 9th tee. There were two groups in front of me on that hole and he let me know he was watching the group on the green closely. Honestly it didn't present a problem for me because I just caught these groups on that hole and I was playing 9 so I was done. But nice to see they are making an effort.

Weird to see a little jam like that because the guy in the shop told me they only had 60 people on the course the entire day, this was around 4PM. I spent some time at the range and headed out on #1 just as another single was walking off the the green. That guy played speed golf and put some distance between us. By the time I saw him again he was rolling to the #9 green and there were 3 groups between us so he played through 3 times. I wonder how much of the delay was due to him disrupting the order. I'm not slow, not even close, so for him to move by 3 groups he was unusually fast. Not sure how it all happened but everyone on the front 9 ended up on #8 and #9 at the same time.

[RayG]

A single shouldn't "disrupt the order" if they're playing through. While some times they will let me tee off and go out to my ball before they hit, I will sometimes ask if they want to hit together as a 5. USUALLY, someone will peel one off to the right or left and require a little bit of a look. While I can go to my ball and play on from there. This way, they aren't waiting on the tee for you to get 500 yards out because one guy hit it 230 last year. You cut at least half of that wait off. If after I take my next shot, I have a safe avenue- I'll tell them to hit theirs up as well while I'm making my way to the green. I putt out and move on. They can then chip up or whatever. By the time they get to the next tee, I'm already far enough out and they play ready. It's a subtle way of getting them to keep up a pace without that "Oh, we're waiting for that single" that they might say to the group behind them. Even if I'M the one who peels one off, we are still together a bit before I get ahead on the next shot. If we're still "together" at the green, I'll putt out first and try and get to the next tee. Because I KNOW they'll be futzing around while they eyeball that 8 footer for a 9. Everybody is still moving and keeping things in motion.

[JonMA1]

Originally Posted by jfrain2004

clarkgriswold hit it on the nail.  The guy that hits it out 180yrd on a par 5 then waits for green to clear before hitting his next 350yrd 3 wood is the type of golfer I can't hack. And D-Man is spot on as well with the guys that play with dimpled golden nuggets.  They hit a ball OOB and proceed to follow it.  Courses are to blame here for allowing gaps in their perimiter that encourages guys to go looking for balls they have hit OOB.  Am I correct in saying that according to the rules of golf you are qutomatically disqualified from a competition if you leave the course ie  go to retrieve a ball that is OOB?

I will admit it. Before reading the threads on TST about slow play, I was the guy would wait for the green to clear. Purely due to ignorance, I thought waiting was proper etiquette. Honestly, if there isn't anyone behind me, I will still continue to wait just so the folks in front don't feel unnecessarily rushed. As far as OOB, I'm not sure if the two courses I play are even marked. I suppose it becomes common sense at some point.

Regarding the ESC option, Every time I go out to play golf, I start out with the goal of shooting my lowest score. Occasionally, I will have a blowup hole and will stop at 10 on my scorecard - similar to an ESC. Unless it were to happen late during a really good round, with my game it's hard to recover from a hole like that (as far as setting a personal best). I just accept this won't be the day and consider the remainder of the round as practice while continuing to keep score. Usually the round plays a bit faster.

There is so much more to golf than just a good swing. If I'd played more golf with others, chances are I would have been "taught" the game properly including rules and etiquette.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by JonMA1

I will admit it. Before reading the threads on TST about slow play, I was the guy would wait for the green to clear. Purely due to ignorance, I thought waiting was proper etiquette. Honestly, if there isn't anyone behind me, I will still continue to wait just so the folks in front don't feel unnecessarily rushed. As far as OOB, I'm not sure if the two courses I play are even marked. I suppose it becomes common sense at some point.

Regarding the ESC option, Every time I go out to play golf, I start out with the goal of shooting my lowest score. Occasionally, I will have a blowup hole and will stop at 10 on my scorecard - similar to an ESC. Unless it were to happen late during a really good round, with my game it's hard to recover from a hole like that (as far as setting a personal best). I just accept this won't be the day and consider the remainder of the round as practice while continuing to keep score. Usually the round plays a bit faster.

There is so much more to golf than just a good swing. If I'd played more golf with others, chances are I would have been "taught" the game properly including rules and etiquette.

well i will say this. If your in the group behind them and assume they can't reach the green, that is just stupid. I rather see someone wait to hit, than catch one and have them hit into the group infront of them. When in doubt, i say always wait. Safety is more important than pace of play. That being said, if your 300 yards you, HIT THE BALL :p

[JonMA1]

Originally Posted by saevel25

well i will say this. If your in the group behind them and assume they can't reach the green, that is just stupid. I rather see someone wait to hit, than catch one and have them hit into the group infront of them. When in doubt, i say always wait. Safety is more important than pace of play. That being said, if your 300 yards you, HIT THE BALL :p

The only time I hit 300 yard drives is when I'm posting in the "How far do you hit your clubs" thread .

Last year I hit a freakish anomaly of a drive that must have had everything going for it - perfect swing, wind, and lots of roll - that measured 300 (course markings) so I suppose it's possible to hit someone if you cut it too close. I wouldn't know whether to be elated or embarrassed if I caught one and it landed next to the group in front of me. Sadly, they are safe if 250 away.

[jfrain2004]

True,  I always wait if the group is just at the limit of my tee shot distance. I know from experience there is nothing worse than playing an approach shot and hear a "thump" behind you as some clown has just teed off while I am about to shoot my second.  And if I'm on the tee box and think if I hit my career shot here then I could hit those guys in front then I wait.  No point in being afraid of hitting a good drive.  However,  when a golfer has just "Nailed" a 200 yarder off the tee and he goes up to his ball for the second shot,  then simple laws of physics kick in. You can break most laws in the land but you can't break the laws of physics.  If the same golfer is then presented with a 300+ approach shot then it is simply rediculous to suggest they could hit it over 300.  Impossible. So giving the 4 ball on the green in that case a breathing space behind them will mostly result in them spending too long on the next tee box talking about the eagle they could have got on the last hole. .... ie more slow play.

[Dave2512]

Which is fine as long as your limit is just beyond your average shot distance for that particular club and not the once in a season rocket. If I am facing a 2nd shot of 267 yds with 3w in hand on a short par 5 I realize anything but a perfect shot is likely to fall short because that's well beyond my average. Have I ever hit it that far, sure. But not without some help, wind, best day of golf in a half year, lucky bounce etc. Not to mention previous experience of landing the majority of similar approach shots far short of that. Landing a ball 30-40 yds short of the group ahead isn't hitting into them. Usually it rolls a bit to get it that close. Unless they're watching me play instead of golfing they don't even notice. The only thing I don't do is roll up and disturb them if my ball has landed somewhat close. I simply move out of range of the group behind to allow for forward progress.

[ChuckDee]

Originally Posted by jfrain2004

As an ex weekly golfer that can't hack 5hr+ games of golf who thinks this would work in club golf.

Bit like you have for speed control on a road except in reverse.  Every 4 ball is clocked out,  at a given time,  then they're told,  see ye back in the clubhouse at 4Hr from now.  If not then ye're disqualified unless the 4 ball directly infront of ye did not make it back in the desired time.  Then the other 3 guys in the group are your time keepers and vice versa.

If that's too fast for your pace then yopu could have different blocks of Tee times say 10Am to 11Am where the alloted time is 4:15 ,  11Am to 12Am alloted time is 4:30 etc   That way you can pick the pace that suits you.

I hate to say it guys but the game is dying on it's feet and I'm not the first player in our club to call it a day because the pace of play is too slow.

What if the gold course put some sort of clock/timer/display on the golf carts, starting with the first group to go off.  If your lagging behind, the display would turn red basically alerting you to get it going.

[bplewis24]

I scheduled a trip to Vegas a few weeks ago, and purposely booked my return flight to land Monday at 10:30AM so that I could still take the day off work and have enough time to get a round of golf in on a slow day.  I wanted to see what the round pace would look like on a Monday when the course isn't stacked.  I got paired with 2 gentlemen, and we finished our round somewhere between a 3:10 - 3:20 pace.

Yup, a threesome of golfers in 3:20.  Teed off at 12:40-ish and finished at 4:00-ish.  We finished 9 holes in 1:40.  Now, for the details:

1) I had a solid round and play to a 12.

2) Player A appeared to be around a 15 and had a good round.

3) Player B appeared to be around a 20 and had an average round.

4) There was a single about 3 holes in front of us, who we never saw until hole #15, when he came back for a lost wedge.  We nearly caught up to him on #16 as it was clear he was playing 2-3 balls per hole.  However, we never waited for a group in front of us for a single shot.  The pace was entirely dictated by us.

5) The two gentlemen I was paired with informed me on the #3 green that they play "ready golf" when I asked who was away.  I replied that I was all for that.

6) At no time were we speeding through the round, nor did I ever feel rushed.  It was a competent but not exaggerated pace.

They really did play ready golf, despite the fact we separated from the foursome behind us by 1.5-2 holes at some point.  They didn't wait for each other, nor myself, to find their ball and take their practice swings and prep/routine.  They understood how to navigate the course using the shared cart when their tee shots were on opposite sides of the fairway, etc.  At the same time, they were respectful of each others' lines and vision on the greens when putting.

I'm confident that if a threesome of mid-range to high-handicap golfers can play to 3:20-ish without rushing through the round, that the vast majority non-beginner golfers who make the slightest bit of effort can get around in the 4:15 proposed standard by most golf courses.  Anything more really is pretty bad, and anything approaching or going beyond 5 hours should be unacceptable.

Originally Posted by ChuckDee

What if the gold course put some sort of clock/timer/display on the golf carts, starting with the first group to go off.  If your lagging behind, the display would turn red basically alerting you to get it going.

The higher-end courses currently have this already on the GPS carts.

[NotPortlyNJ]

Here is an example of incentives for fast play:

http://www.crystalgolfresort.com/Golf/FastTrackGolf.aspx

[ChuckDee]

Originally Posted by NotPortlyNJ

Here is an example of incentives for fast play:

http://www.crystalgolfresort.com/Golf/FastTrackGolf.aspx

Free beer at the 19th hole would probably do the trick