What do you need to play par?

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by Shorty

A legitimate 18 handicapper could expect to play 9 holes in par on a course of that length quite often. In fact, they'd have to play quite poorly NOT to be close to par on a course so short.

36 for 9 there might be te same as 47 elsewhere.

9 holes of what is essentially a drive and pitch course does not approximate a "proper" golf course.

The fact that it is the type of course most golfers could enjoy playing is beside the point.

I understand what you're saying, but don't you exaggerate a little?

I find it hard to believe that all 18 handicappers in the US get their handicap by only playing on 7000+ yard courses!

And even so, 1.000 yards difference over 18 holes doesn't seem enough to me to go from 18 handicap, to playing par "quite often", as you say.

I'm sure there will be a significant difference, but 18???

Here in Thailand, I think the majority of courses is under 7.000 yards, varying from 6.000 to about 6.800

[tomvk77]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

OK, I get it, I'm being over-optimistic.

I believe you guys when you say I'm gonna have many more ups and downs before I get to par.

I accept the fact that my lack of experience may cause me to be over-optimistic

But the day I stop being optimistic, is the day I stop trying to get better, so.......

Also, I can assure you, even in the short time I've been playing, I already had quite a few ups and downs, so I'm not completely unfamiliar to that.

To answer the question about how I cheat exactly, here are a few examples:

- during my back-swing at the Tee, I loose my balance a little and completely mishit my drive.

this is getting more rare by the day, but it usually happens 1 or 2 times per round of 9 holes.

counting on this to become extinct soon, I just take a second Tee shot, not counting the first.

- There are a lot of trees on my local course (executive? does that mean it's supposed to be in good condition? Not so!). There's even a big tree in the middle of the fairway on hole nr 6!

It sometimes happens my drive lands right behind a side tree, leaving me with only 1 possible option: playing the ball 20 yards back to the Tee!

I'm working on it to stop that from happening, but in the mean while, I just put the ball a few yards in front of the tree without counting an extra stroke.

- hole nr 8, 268 yards, my drive lands just in front of the water (15 yards wide) that separates me from the green.

I want to chip it over (a shot which normally causes me no problem whatsoever), and for some reason (lack of focus, loss of balance), I completely mishit the ball, which ends up in the water.

I will re-take the shot from the same position as if it was the first attempt (no penalty).

In my last 3 rounds (45 - 46 - 43), this kind of cheating has become much less frequent than before, saving me about 2-4 shots per round (10 to 15 before!), and I tend to stop it completely within the next 2 weeks, no matter how bad my shots are.

It was just a way to avoid complete disappointment (and quitting the game) and also a way to obtain the score from which I believe it corresponds more to what I should be able to play.

Let's just wait and see how the next 6 weeks will affect my results.

I see what you mean. When i picked up the game, i was a fast learner. The pro was a good friend and i played allot off holes with him.

Took lessons every 2 weeks and recording the swing and progress i made. after my first year my first handicap was 17.4 that was legit. After competing in tournaments. Second year i came down to 12. ( this was all without the use off a driver or fairway wood ) it took me another 3 years to get it below 10.

The way i see it you have a true handicap when your competing in tournaments, not play a Q-Card with some buddies. Not to think off playing only 9 holes. As posted before 9 or 18 holes makes such a big difference even if it's the same 9 holes you have to play again.

My advice to you is: make sure you don't try to hard, keep the pleasure in the game. when on the course don't focus on your score.

I never did. i once posted a round off 72 ( +2 ) without knowing about my score, i just had fun and holed a few putts here and there. when i was counting the score i realized what my score was. My competitor knew it but didn't say something, because i was not talking about it.

off course it's good to practice and allot practice is also good. But to think about your golfgame 12 hours a day.....????

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by tomvk77

I see what you mean. When i picked up the game, i was a fast learner. The pro was a good friend and i played allot off holes with him.

Took lessons every 2 weeks and recording the swing and progress i made. after my first year my first handicap was 17.4 that was legit. After competing in tournaments. Second year i came down to 12. ( this was all without the use off a driver or fairway wood ) it took me another 3 years to get it below 10.

The way i see it you have a true handicap when your competing in tournaments, not play a Q-Card with some buddies. Not to think off playing only 9 holes. As posted before 9 or 18 holes makes such a big difference even if it's the same 9 holes you have to play again.

My advice to you is: make sure you don't try to hard, keep the pleasure in the game. when on the course don't focus on your score.

I never did. i once posted a round off 72 ( +2 ) without knowing about my score, i just had fun and holed a few putts here and there. when i was counting the score i realized what my score was. My competitor knew it but didn't say something, because i was not talking about it.

off course it's good to practice and allot practice is also good. But to think about your golfgame 12 hours a day.....????

I know, and I admit I can be quite fanatic when I really want to master something.

I often can't even fall a sleep at night because I can't stop thinking about my game.

It helps me to advance faster.

I'm sure it will wear off a little as time goes by.

[Ernest Jones]

To answer the question about how I cheat exactly, here are a few examples: - during my back-swing at the Tee, I loose my balance a little and completely mishit my drive.   this is getting more rare by the day, but it usually happens 1 or 2 times per round of 9 holes.   counting on this to become extinct soon, I just take a second Tee shot, not counting the first. - There are a lot of trees on my local course (executive? does that mean it's supposed to be in good condition? Not so!). There's even a big tree in the middle of the fairway on hole nr 6!   It sometimes happens my drive lands right behind a side tree, leaving me with only 1 possible option: playing the ball 20 yards back to the Tee ! I'm working on it to stop that from happening, but in the mean while, I just put the ball a few yards in front of the tree without counting an extra stroke. - hole nr 8, 268 yards, my drive lands just in front of the water (15 yards wide) that separates me from the green. I want to chip it over (a shot which normally causes me no problem whatsoever), and for some reason (lack of focus, loss of balance), I completely mishit the ball, which ends up in the water. I will re-take the shot from the same position as if it was the first attempt (no penalty).

I'd hardly call that "hardly cheating". You are doing yourself a HUGE disservice by allow yourself such latitude, at least in terms of having serious goals in golf. I have only one "cheat" and that is if I lose a ball I fully expected to find, I'll take a 2 stroke penalty in place of stroke and distance for pace of play considerations, however fellow trappers have kinda got me thinking I'm just going to hit a lot more provisionals. These are pretty rare as I will hit a provisional if its headed somewhere sketchy but sometimes you see it land and PRESTO, it's gone. Maybe once every 3 rounds or so? I was starting to feel a little guilty about this cheat but after reading your laundry list of "game improvement" techniques I guess mine is pretty reasonable considering a) I am assessing an additional stroke to account for the distance b) my drop is in the junk not the fairway. It also only affects the occasional round whereas it sounds like you use, ahem, modified rules every round and every hole. Just gonna man up from now on and hit that extra shot from the tee.

[pipergsm]

When I say "hardly cheating", I mean that in my last few rounds, either one of these cheating circumstances hardly occurred.

The cheating was (is) a temporary measure until my shots on course start to actually reflect my average shots on the range (which is where I'm getting now).

It's normal (I guess) not to play as good on the course as you do on the range, but when this difference in quality becomes so extreme that you can as well use your feet to propel the golf ball (as it used to be in my case), there's no much use in writing down every single shank and penalty you make, unless you actually want to arrive over 160 and completely demotivate yourself.

Tomorrow I'm gonna play 9 holes with my teacher and we'll write down every shot and penalty.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

But the day I stop being optimistic, is the day I stop trying to get better, so.......

It's also the day you stop being a golfer. Golfers, as a whole, are optimists with a new chance of obtaining glory ever time we walk up to the first tee. Our heads are filled with visions of personal bests, sub-par rounds and breaking on through to the promised land (or at least the other side). Then we hit our first tee shot.

[JonMA1]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

I have only one "cheat" and that is if I lose a ball I fully expected to find, I'll take a 2 stroke penalty in place of stroke and distance for pace of play considerations

Not the same as cheating, imo. The intent is not the same. But I'm with you, starting to hit more provisionals if there's a doubt.

[bjwestner]

I was being a wise ass in my post.......Yes I think it's odd for the OP to start this thread by telling everyone the secrets to shooting par, yet while knowing the secrets still not being able to do so himself......I also can see where the OP is coming from which is why I included the part about being range drunk.  We've all been there before, when you have just an incredible range session where everything goes right and the game seems easy, so easy that shooting par must be easy.  You are feeling so good because you just had a range session where you pulled off every shot.  You feel so good (drunk), maybe too good and instead of drunk dialing someone like with actual alcohol, you start a thread telling the world how easy par is, after all, you just had the best range session ever and you know the next time out that you are going to go low.......

Yes I've been there, I think we all have at some point.......

[bplewis24]

36 for 9 there might be te same as 47 elsewhere.

Agree.  There is a course I occasionally play near my apt that is very short and very easy, and I regularly shoot +1 to +4 there.  Slope is 110 I believe.

Originally Posted by Zeph

3000 yards on 9 holes is 6000 yards on 18 holes. Isn't that around the length a mid to high handicapper should play on? I would not call it a drive and pitch course and expect an 18 handicapper to play to par regularly.

Depends on slope, I would think.  I know a course in the mountains about 45 minutes from me that is notoriously short at 5900 yards, but is still 138 slope.  I believe the OP at some point admitted the slope of his course was 113 from the 3000 yard tees.  That would lead me to believe it's short AND has little trouble other than the trees and the one water hazard he referenced.

Originally Posted by pipergsm

To answer the question about how I cheat exactly, here are a few examples:

- during my back-swing at the Tee, I loose my balance a little and completely mishit my drive.

this is getting more rare by the day, but it usually happens 1 or 2 times per round of 9 holes.

counting on this to become extinct soon, I just take a second Tee shot, not counting the first.

- There are a lot of trees on my local course (executive? does that mean it's supposed to be in good condition? Not so!). There's even a big tree in the middle of the fairway on hole nr 6!

It sometimes happens my drive lands right behind a side tree, leaving me with only 1 possible option: playing the ball 20 yards back to the Tee!

I'm working on it to stop that from happening, but in the mean while, I just put the ball a few yards in front of the tree without counting an extra stroke.

- hole nr 8, 268 yards, my drive lands just in front of the water (15 yards wide) that separates me from the green.

I want to chip it over (a shot which normally causes me no problem whatsoever), and for some reason (lack of focus, loss of balance), I completely mishit the ball, which ends up in the water.

I will re-take the shot from the same position as if it was the first attempt (no penalty).

In my last 3 rounds (45 - 46 - 43), this kind of cheating has become much less frequent than before, saving me about 2-4 shots per round (10 to 15 before!), and I tend to stop it completely within the next 2 weeks, no matter how bad my shots are.

It was just a way to avoid complete disappointment (and quitting the game) and also a way to obtain the score from which I believe it corresponds more to what I should be able to play.

Originally Posted by pipergsm

When I say "hardly cheating", I mean that in my last few rounds, either one of these cheating circumstances hardly occurred.

The cheating was (is) a temporary measure until my shots on course start to actually reflect my average shots on the range (which is where I'm getting now).

It's normal (I guess) not to play as good on the course as you do on the range, but when this difference in quality becomes so extreme that you can as well use your feet to propel the golf ball (as it used to be in my case), there's no much use in writing down every single shank and penalty you make, unless you actually want to arrive over 160 and completely demotivate yourself.

I believe you are underestimating the impact that those bad swings have on your round in terms of strokes added, as well not really appreciating that they are indicative of your skill level to this point.  To my first point, re-teeing your drive doesn't simply negate one stroke.  It could negate as many as 3 strokes.  Well, scratch that, it could negate an indefinite number of strokes, which is kind of the point: you're always going to have some horrible tee shots and how you play through them is what defines your skill level.  And chunking one into the water definitely costs you 2 strokes.

Regarding my second point, you aren't the first person to struggle taking it to the course from the range.  Even pro golfers struggle with that sometimes.  But the higher the variance the more it reflects your current skill level, IMO.  You simply can't say "well that tee shot isn't reflective of how I hit it on the range, therefore it shouldn't be reflected in my score," any more than you could tell a professor, "look I know I got the answer wrong on the test, but when I did my homework I continually got it right, so that test shouldn't count towards my grade."

And this is to say nothing of the mental aspect of the game.  Chunking one in the water when you thought you were looking at a birdie can cause a lot of mental anguish that can sometimes be hard to recover from.  That mental stress after a bad shot is near palpable.  Also, from a mental perspective, when you know you can simply take a mulligan, it takes a lot of the mental pressure off of some shots.  All in all, I'd venture that if you played your same course in a tournament setting, you'd probably add 8-10 strokes to your current run of scores mostly because you're not preparing yourself currently for the mental preparation of a full round.

[Ernest Jones]

How odd is it that my on course game is now considerably stronger than my range game! Good problem to have I guess... it's just weird that I'll hit a pile of mediocre to awful shots on the range but play pretty decent golf on the course! Go figure. Thinking of scrapping the range sessions all together and just practice partial swings and drills in the basement.

[6iron]

I know what you're trying to say. Some people  get to the course and just hit the ball without thinking about game management. I have learned to sometimes, lay up at a yardage that fits my game.

[Paradox]

to shoot par...I need a tater gun with a long barrel, a ball with a hole in the middle of it and a pin that I can stick in the cup, and I'll be set.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

I understand what you're saying, but don't you exaggerate a little?

I find it hard to believe that all 18 handicappers in the US get their handicap by only playing on 7000+ yard courses!

And even so, 1.000 yards difference over 18 holes doesn't seem enough to me to go from 18 handicap, to playing par "quite often", as you say.

I'm sure there will be a significant difference, but 18???

Not exaggerating at all.

I'm talking about a legitimate 18 handicapper, not someone who has the luxury of playing tees that make every par 4 reachable in 2 with a short iron and every par 5 reachable in 2. Or plays courses with several 300 yard par 4s. Or has a DIY handicap where they only count rounds they want to count. I'm talking about 9 holes of 3000 yards or less. Many is the time I have played at short courses and played with 15 to 20 handicappers who have played one nine 1 or two over par They can't sustain it for 18 holes, but because they are able to reach the greens in regulation and they hit the ball solidly it's a common story. If they played in some countries, their 18 handicap in Australia would be a comfortable 12. We should have the American system here, but we don't which is why our handicaps typically (and anecdotall) are usually about 8 shots higher than our American friends. Our handicaps are ONLY calculated in competition rounds. And EVERY round counts.

As to your major problem, it's merely a question of self deception. Even at this early stage of your golfing career you are making the error of not understanding that the errors you make on the course are EXACTLY the things that keep everyone's handicap 5 to 10 strokes higher than it could be if they NEVER HIT a really bad shot and suffered the consequences. You seem to think that shots into water, drives behind trees, duffed shots are anomolies, when in fact they are the very things that make virtually every round for virtually every golfer a story of "If I hadn't.......... I would have and should have and could have". Fact is you didn't. If that were the case, Tiger would have 40 majors, Norman would have won 10 and every PGA Tour player would have at least 2 victories.

Number one project for you is to get real. Count every shot and realise that the course is not the practice range where the memory of a bad shot can be erased after te next hit. In real golf, bad experiences on certain holes can keep ypu awake at night. The fear of the tee shot on 18 where you have ruined good scores in the past has nothing to do with what yoiu did in a range session. Never underestimate the imoprtance of the mental side of the game. If "shit happens" to the best players in the world, it happens to all of us, believe me. So when whoever it was 4 putted from 6 fet the other day on TV, don't think that if it's you doing the same you just say "I wouldn't normally do that". You did. It counts. Move on.

[Blueman]

I am a bogey golfer and what I need to shoot par is to know how to putt ! My driver is well over 90% fairway. I have had 1 drive in the last 50 that was not playable. I might have 1 or 2 in the rough a round, but not bad. The last 27 holes I have played, I have had 70% greens in regulation. Then I 3 putt : ( I practice at home and a little on the practice green, and then go out and hack it around the green. Played 10 holes last weekend. Had 7 greens in regulation. I went back over scorecard and tried to figure my score if I had 2 putted every single hole. (2 holes I actually did 2 putt.) . I would have shot a 39 on the front 9. Yes, I 2 putted a hole I made DB on. I definetly deserved the DB. But I would be thrilled with a 39. I just cannot figure out how to get the stinking ball in the stinking little hole. I dont miss at putt-putt ? And here in Texas, putt-putts do in fact have breaks. The ground cracks up in the summer and warps the "greens" . Am beginning to think half of my putting issue is psychological. When I say screw it, this is my last putt from 5 ft away and hit the ball backwards, it goes in. If I try my arse off,it does everything but go in. I am starting to see balls defying the laws of physics now. Putting dead center of a 20 degree slope and the ball never breaks. Go back and rehit the putt 10 times, and it breaks 4 feet the next 10 times. Putting is black magic I tell you.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by Blueman

I am a bogey golfer and what I need to shoot par is to know how to putt ! My driver is well over 90% fairway. I have had 1 drive in the last 50 that was not playable. I might have 1 or 2 in the rough a round, but not bad. The last 27 holes I have played, I have had 70% greens in regulation. Then I 3 putt : ( I practice at home and a little on the practice green, and then go out and hack it around the green. Played 10 holes last weekend. Had 7 greens in regulation. I went back over scorecard and tried to figure my score if I had 2 putted every single hole. (2 holes I actually did 2 putt.) . I would have shot a 39 on the front 9. Yes, I 2 putted a hole I made DB on. I definetly deserved the DB. But I would be thrilled with a 39. I just cannot figure out how to get the stinking ball in the stinking little hole. I dont miss at putt-putt ? And here in Texas, putt-putts do in fact have breaks. The ground cracks up in the summer and warps the "greens" . Am beginning to think half of my putting issue is psychological. When I say screw it, this is my last putt from 5 ft away and hit the ball backwards, it goes in. If I try my arse off,it does everything but go in. I am starting to see balls defying the laws of physics now. Putting dead center of a 20 degree slope and the ball never breaks. Go back and rehit the putt 10 times, and it breaks 4 feet the next 10 times. Putting is black magic I tell you.

thats better than pros...the best pro hits 72% GIR  and 70% Fairways.....

And you're somewhere around a 25 handicap?

[bplewis24]

Holy crap, well over 90% of fairways and 70% GIR.  If I had those numbers with my putting I'd definitely be a scratch golfer.  Hell, I'd be on tour!

I'd be a millionaire!

[hampshire2012]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

Tomorrow I'm gonna play 9 holes with my teacher and we'll write down every shot and penalty.

How did it go?

[France46]

I understand (and agree with a lot of) the bashing of the OP, but I also think that most golfers would lower their score more by improving their consistency/accuracy/course management/short game than they would by simply adding 20-30 yards off the tee.  W hen you ignore the details and OPs naivette, I think that is one of the things he might have been trying to say.

Maybe that is too obvious to warrant a thread, but lots of golfers seem more concerned about getting longer than getting better.