What do you need to play par?

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Let me start again by saying I'm by no means a good golfer. But if you line up a 15 footer for me, I'm hitting it about 1/3 of the time unless there's crazy break. If those 10 handicappers aren't, then they must be incredible ball strikers, and if they cleaned up their short game, they may be closer to scratch.

And again, you shouldn't have a ton of 15 footers. Most of your putts should be inside of 10 feet, since at your level you're probably just off the green a lot with your approach shots. Until you do that, and improve your putting, your scores will stay high.

My best scores are when my short game is on. I can completely duff a tee shot and not beat myself up about it, because I know if my short game is on, I can still par or bogey the hole. My best 9 ever was a 42. And most of my tee shots were just terrible. But I had a chip in, and a bunch of 1 putts. Could have easily been 50+.

My best score was similar, missing several drives, but putting a round of 14, including 2 from about 30 foot, on a down slope, breaking left to right

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

Lining up 15-footers on a flat green or mat will allow me to do the same, maybe even more than 1/3.

But the greens on the course are not like that.

I'm sure they're nothing like the pro-level courses, but they do have quite some slopes and breaks.

That's why you need to practice on the course. Putting on carpet or fake flat greens is great for working on your line, but to read properly, has to be done on the course.

Sometimes I'll purposely golf by myself when it's busy, so I can just toss 3 balls on the green and end up striking well over 100 putts in a round.

[pipergsm]

Good idea, I'll copy that next time I play a round, thanks!

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

Good idea, I'll copy that next time I play a round, thanks!

No problem. Everyone goes to the course and starts whacking a bucket. I toss a bunch of balls on the green and will spend 20 minutes chipping and putting before I head to the first tee.

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

No problem. Everyone goes to the course and starts whacking a bucket. I toss a bunch of balls on the green and will spend 20 minutes chipping and putting before I head to the first tee.

we have a small practice green where I practice sometimes, but the greens on the course are different.

They're usually faster than the practice green, break when they shouldn't and don't when they should, drives me crazy sometimes.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

we have a small practice green where I practice sometimes, but the greens on the course are different.

They're usually faster than the practice green, break when they shouldn't and don't when they should, drives me crazy sometimes.

That's not a green problem, it's a green reading problem. It's more than just "Oh, it's slopey here, so it's gonna go way left to right." You have to be able to read the grain and break, and use your knowledge about the course and greens to line up the putt and speed. It's an art...and like most art forms...I suck at it. lol

[iacas]

Enough about your lousy putting, please.

Let's get back to someone who shoots 43 or 56 on a 3000 yard course telling everyone how to become scratch golfers.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by iacas

Enough about your lousy putting, please.

Let's get back to someone who shoots 43 or 56 on a 3000 yard course telling everyone how to become scratch golfers.

Do we really want this thread to go back on topic? lol

[GaijinGolfer]

For me, really, what I need to shoot par is to put my drive in play a reasonable distance out (200 yards or) hit my 2nd shot with some control and a reasonable distance from the green (close the green if its a par 4, within 100 yards if its a par 5) and then the rest, for me at least, is fairly simple because my short game and putting has always been the strengths of my game.

I know that a lot of people preach that you should start on the green and build your game working back from that point but really, Ive always felt that unless your full swing game is solid and you can get close to the green in a reasonable number of strokes then it doesnt matter how good your short game or putting is.

Sinking a long putt means little if its a putt for bogey or double bogey.

[Lihu]

I just went to the driving range this morning and they are having an SCGA tournament. All 100 or so players are scratch or better, this is just in the L.A. So. Cal. area.

First, all of them drove between 275 and 320 yards. Not all of them were straight on the first hole they played, however, they all (I only watched 15 of them) seemed to be able to recover. Secondly, the pace of play was incredibly fast.

I talked to one of them, and he ended up driving with a 3 wood for fear of hitting into the rain runoff 320 yards away. Good thing he did.

This reinforces my belief that most of the distance thread posts are probably correct, and that there are a heck of a lot of athletic golfers out there who can hit really straight.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Do we really want this thread to go back on topic? lol

I think the natural evolution of the topic is for pipergsm to prove that he is improving as much as he thinks he is in spite of his flawed view and his prior cheating influencing his perceived improvement.

His "test" round where he counted everything with his instructor added (if I remember correctly), 12-13 strokes to the current run of scores he had been touting (from 43 to 56 for 9 holes).  That is three strokes above what I predicted he would score under a pressure-filled setting, and this wasn't even a tournament.

[Lash]

I do think there is one thing to gain from the original post. Distance is overrated by beginners. I just started a couple of years ago and everyone told me I needed to start on my short game. There is no doubt that your short game will do the most to lower your score. However, if you are losing half of your drives in the woods and then hitting your second shots 15 feet half the time, those 15-20 strokes you can pick up with your short game still aren't going to get you close to par. A simple approach like he mentioned does seem like a good mindset for a beginner.

You don't need to drive it 400 yards and you don't need to 1-putt every hole. You do need to keep your drives playable, and get your second shot consistent so that your short game matters. I just now have gotten to where I can hit most fairways, but I don't drive the ball 250 often at all, if ever. But if I can hit the fairway, and then hit my wood close to the green, my short game can do the work and keep me close to par.

Don't take that as me offering golf advice, I'm just offering perspective for beginners that can be hard to remember for some scratch golfers.

Golf is as simple as iacas said on the first page of the thread, yet it's also much more complicated. You just have to take it a little at a time and treat it in a simple way while focusing on one thing at a time to improve your game when you are beginning.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Lash

Distance is overrated by beginners.

True, and that's one of the few things I agreed with.  However, the context of the OP is in becoming scratch.  And while it may not matter for a beginner, for a scratch player, it will.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

True, and that's one of the few things I agreed with.  However, the context of the OP is in becoming scratch.  And while it may not matter for a beginner, for a scratch player, it will.

Good point. I guess the point to take from that is that distance doesn't matter in the beginning, you have to start with accuracy, but if you want to play par every time you will eventually have to add distance, because you're never going to be perfectly accurate.

I think the mindset of being consistently straight regardless of length is a good mindset to start out with, even though that mindset will have to change eventually.

[jrasch]

I thought Thailand was in Southeast Asia?

Originally Posted by pipergsm

IACAS, thanks for correcting my miss-reading of the text, I apologize.

If 1 out of 9 (11%) is really bad, then surely, in order for it to be good, it should at least be double, no? That makes 2 out of 9 (22%, not much under 25%.)

My first putt is rarely from within 12 feet, so I guess the average is more than 15 feet.

Yes, my short game (approach) sucks!  I'm working on it, especially the transfer from range to course is causing me troubles.

If my putting is really that bad, than I guess American golfers are all super-putters, since most golfers I've seen playing here (Thailand) rarely 1-putt from 15 feet, not even 1 out of 9!

I have played with several 10 to 16 handicappers. They rarely putt lower than 16 per round and definitely don't putt 2 out of 9 from 15 feet!

And as far as teaching is concerned: I don't know how teaching is done in the US, but one of the basic principles of teaching in Europe is that you don't "stimulate" a student by only emphasizing on, and even exaggerating, what is negative in his results and comparing his results with those of much more evolved/experienced players.

Placing things in the right perspective is essential.

I don't have to "demonstrate" anything.

I grew up among teachers, and have been teaching music and languages for many years, successfully.

[Phil McGleno]

Patrick is bad at geography too.[quote name="jrasch" url="/t/67437/what-do-you-need-to-play-par/126#post_854472"]I thought Thailand was in Southeast Asia? [/quote]

[boil3rmak3r]

Originally Posted by Lash

I do think there is one thing to gain from the original post. Distance is overrated by beginners. I just started a couple of years ago and everyone told me I needed to start on my short game. There is no doubt that your short game will do the most to lower your score. However, if you are losing half of your drives in the woods and then hitting your second shots 15 feet half the time, those 15-20 strokes you can pick up with your short game still aren't going to get you close to par. A simple approach like he mentioned does seem like a good mindset for a beginner.

You don't need to drive it 400 yards and you don't need to 1-putt every hole. You do need to keep your drives playable, and get your second shot consistent so that your short game matters. I just now have gotten to where I can hit most fairways, but I don't drive the ball 250 often at all, if ever. But if I can hit the fairway, and then hit my wood close to the green, my short game can do the work and keep me close to par.

Don't take that as me offering golf advice, I'm just offering perspective for beginners that can be hard to remember for some scratch golfers.

Golf is as simple as iacas said on the first page of the thread, yet it's also much more complicated. You just have to take it a little at a time and treat it in a simple way while focusing on one thing at a time to improve your game when you are beginning.

Maybe one of the 5SK guys can chime in on this, but I always heard that you should let a beginner try to knock it as far as they want.  Of course, there has to be some sort of balance between encouraging them to try to hit it far and trying to teach proper mechanics.  I've read that it's easier to teach a long hitter to straighten out their shots than it is to teach a short knocker to hit it further.  So, if one truly is a beginner, I don't necessarily agree they should focus on accuracy and not distance.  There's a chance that strategy could back fire 5 or 10 years down the road when the person is a much better golfer who is trying to get to, let's say, a high single digit handicap.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

I believe many golfers make golf more complicated than it is.

I'm not saying golf is an easy game, on the contrary!

However, many golfers have the wrong idea about what is needed to play good golf.

Do you need 300 yards distance with the driver?                  NO

Do you need to be perfect at chipping and putting?               NO

Do you need perfect control over all the clubs in your bag?    NO

So what do you need?

Well, pure mathematically and theoretically, here's what you do need.

1)  you need to be able to hit your driver and irons (6 through 9) straight, consistently.

This might be a little more difficult for the driver, but not so much for the irons.

Keep in mind that accuracy (direction) is more important than distance. Your practice should ALWAYS focus on accuracy,

until your accuracy has reached +80%

2)  you need to know the normal distance range for your clubs, and the possible deviation for your irons should not be more

than about 10 yards (see required distances below)

3)  Required clubs to play par on a medium distance course: Driver - irons (6-7-8-9) - SW - PW - putter

Notice the absence of fairway woods. They are more difficult to master than irons and not necessary on

medium distance courses.

4)  required distances:    Driver    240      yards

I-9       110-125 yards

I-8       125-135 yards

I-7       140-150 yards

I-6       155-165 yards

PW        70-90 yards       full swing

SW          60 yards          full swing

Most male golfers (-60) should be able to reach these distances. If you're a little shorter, just add the 5-iron!

Just do the math: on a medium distance course, the longest par 5 will be around 560 yards.

if you're able to hit your driver and irons straight you need a 240 yards drive, 2 shots with your 6-iron

(160+160) and you're on the green in 3. Any hole on this course could give you a birdie possibility.

All you need is ACCURACY.

5)  for PW and SW, you must be able to hit 3 different distances consistently: 20-30 yards, 40-50 yards and

your full swing distance.

when you master these 3 distances, any other required distance (10yds, 15 yds,...) is within your capability.

Mastering these 3 distances is easier than it seems. It took me only 2 lessons and about 4 hours of practice!

Here too, accuracy (direction) is of the highest priority off course.

6)  For the putter, you should focus your practice on these distances: 3 feet, 6 feet, 9 feet, 12 feet.

Once you're on the green and more than 6 feet from the hole, your primary goal is NOT to make the put, but to bring the ball

as close as possible to the hole, at least within 6 feet, so you can 2-put.

3 feet: +85% should be made

6 feet: +70% should be made

Always focus on 2-putting!!!

If you focus your practice on acquiring these 6 abilities, you should be able to play par (or very near) on most medium distance courses.

General strategy: avoid bunkers at all cost!

when faced with a bunker in front of the green, you have 2 options: aim for the back of the green

(know the distance for each club!!!), or put it just

in front of the bunker and chip it as close as possible to the pin. You may loose 1 stroke, but ending up in the

bunker will probably cost you 2 strokes or more!

I appreciate the effort that you put into this, but...

Look half of this is completely subjective and is in no way factual or "the way it is". Everything that I highlighted in bold is silly and the part that I read, which I highlighted in red, about the fairway woods is unbelievable.

I'm not sure I would ever break 90 again by following this recipe, let alone 80.

PS: Where the hell have I been and how did I miss this? Also, what is a "medium distance course"? Am I being trolled?