"Hey! While we're young!" - USGA Pace of Play

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You misread what I wrote.  What I said was that if I got into the area and saw that I wouldn't be able to play the ball even if I found it, then I don't bother to look.  I just go and play my provisional ball.  I know that if I find the original ball, the provisional ball is abandoned.

Gotcha. Yeah, I don't blame you...and I would also stop golfing with someone who insisted on looking for my crappy shot.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by saevel25

They can be and they can't be, the problem with carts is in the dispersion of shots. 99% of the time most golfers in carts sit and wait for the person to hit, before both get into there cart and go find the other ball.

I think that % is too high.  My experience leads me to believe it's more of a 50:50 proposition.

[newtogolf]

When my playing partner and I share a cart and put the ball on opposite sides of the fairway one of us usually takes the cart to their ball while the other (who's ball is closest) walks to his with the clubs he thinks he's going to need.  If I fall short on the approach, and my partner is on the green, I take a wedge and a putter and walk to my ball while he parks the cart and gets ready to putt.

In these cases we're just as fast as walkers.  When we both play the ball close to each other, we're at the ball ready to hit much faster than walkers can be unless they sprint or it's cart path only.

It's basic common sense, no heavy math or rocket science required to speed up play when sharing a cart.

[Dave2512]

It's rare to not have to wait on the group ahead at most of the courses I play. We drive to the nearest ball, get a number and that person grabs the appropriate club. The cart is moved as close to the next ball as possible, probably right next to it unless it puts that person in the path of balls being hit towards the green. By the time the person waiting at that location hits the cart partner has either walked back to the cart or towards the green in the fairway and can be picked up on the way.

We certainly get to the balls faster than someone walking. Here the only courses I consider worth playing really can't be walked efficiently. There's as much as a couple hundred yards between greens and tees. Some have hazards in front of tee boxes that prevent walkers from talking a straight line, they have to walk around a pond and over a cart bridge just to get to one side of the fairway. If we get pared with walkers at these courses they spend more time walking than golfing.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I know it's been said many times in this thread already, but I need to continue the trend....the players on here who are actually arguing that walking the course is faster than riding, are clearly out of their minds.

I played yesterday on a relatively short (6000yds), very flat golf course. There were 2 of us riding in a cart playing with 2 guys who were walking the course. On EVERY single shot, the two of us in the cart would be waiting for at least a minute if not more for the other 2 guys to reach us in the fairway. Most of the time, I would go directly to my ball and hit my approach shot, even though I was closest to green, while the 2 walkers made their way up the fairway to their tee shots. The 2 of us in the cart were much faster going from tee to fairway. We were also much faster going from green to next tee. The only way walking is faster than riding is if the course is soaked and there's a strict cart path only rule. Other than that, the people claiming walking is faster are out of their minds or just plain delusional.

I call BS.  If I took one minute plus for each shot I took, and I shoot my usually 80s You would play a round 1 hour and 20 minutes faster than me.  My last 18 took me 2:15 walking, so I take it you play as a single in 55 min...impressive.  Duh you are going to get to your ball faster than a walker, no one is arguing that, but in my experience cart riders can find some pretty creative ways to play slow.

From the sounds of your "I was closest to the green" line I am going to guess that you were a better player than these walkers.  Chances are your better play was the biggest factor of them being slower than you.

[Ernest Jones]

The fact of the matter is that fast players are fast regardless of whether or not they have a cart and slow players are slow regardless of whether or not they have a cart. The method of travel from shot to shot is not what is slowing play.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I call BS.  If I took one minute plus for each shot I took, and I shoot my usually 80s You would play a round 1 hour and 20 minutes faster than me.  My last 18 took me 2:15 walking, so I take it you play as a single in 55 min...impressive.  Duh you are going to get to your ball faster than a walker, no one is arguing that, but in my experience cart riders can find some pretty creative ways to play slow.    From the sounds of your "I was closest to the green" line I am going to guess that you were a better player than these walkers.  Chances are your better play was the biggest factor of them being slower than you.

I'm not sure why you are calling BS. I played with these guys yesterday. I'm not making up a story. We would all tee off. Then I would drive to my ball, get my yardage, grab my club and hit my approach shot. I would then turn around and see the 2 guys walking were still 50 yards away from reaching their tee shot. This was not a one time action. This sequence repeated itself the entire day. I was slightly longer than the other 3 guys off the tee, and a majority of the time my ball was the furthest from the tee after our drives. I play golf in MB at least once a week. I have played 50 rounds on 40 different courses in the last 9 months. We take carts EVERY time. Maybe I am just proficient with a golf cart. It seems like common sense to me. I know it's possible for some players to be 'creative' with the carts and spend more time zipping around in crazy directions than driving the carts effectively. And 'cart-path- only' is a different discussion. But it shouldn't even be a discussion as to whether walking or carts are faster. It's clear driving is faster. Me and my cart partner shot 80 and 86 The walkers shot 88 and 93 It was 90 degrees and humid. But a very flat and short course.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by trackster

I call BS.  If I took one minute plus for each shot I took, and I shoot my usually 80s You would play a round 1 hour and 20 minutes faster than me.  My last 18 took me 2:15 walking, so I take it you play as a single in 55 min...impressive.  Duh you are going to get to your ball faster than a walker, no one is arguing that, but in my experience cart riders can find some pretty creative ways to play slow.

From the sounds of your "I was closest to the green" line I am going to guess that you were a better player than these walkers.  Chances are your better play was the biggest factor of them being slower than you.

I think you're going about your calculations wrong.  Realistically, you only walk in the direction of the fairway and in the direction of the green.  That's 2 minutes, if we assume 1 minute wait for each walk.  2 minutes multiplied by 18 holes is 36 minutes faster.  Every shot doesn't require a drive (putting, chipping, etc), so you wouldn't calculate it that way.

But, your sentence in bold gives away the biggest point: a cart rider would have to do something wrong to play slower than a walker (assuming they both hit their shots in the same place every hole).  That is because being in a cart is faster than walking.  About the only time it isn't is when cart paths dictate some logistical issues that a walker can navigate faster (example: cart path goes to the right side of the green, and the next tee box is on the left side of the same green, forcing the carts to park and then drive around, while the walker can put his bag on the left side of the green and walk a few steps to the next tee box...hardly saving a ton of time though).

[carrx]

Played recently at a muni course, early morning time (before 8am).  We were called 3rd up on the box, and were at the practice green putting (next to the 1st tee), and watched as the group with 1st tee honors proceeded to take 30 minutes to gather at the tee box, stretch , make their pre-round wagers, then hit 1-2 balls each, since not a single one of them apparently had played golf more than a handful of times before.

You should have seen the dismay on the faces of the groups that were now gathering around the practice green watching this spectacle.

Although they played most of the day 1.5 to 2.0 holes behind the group in front of them, we weren't really held up after they were able to clear the first couple of holes.  Maybe we waited a few minutes on the par 3s, but nothing extraordinary.  We finished in just under 5 hours.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I think you're going about your calculations wrong.  Realistically, you only walk in the direction of the fairway and in the direction of the green.  That's 2 minutes, if we assume 1 minute wait for each walk.  2 minutes multiplied by 18 holes is 36 minutes faster.  Every shot doesn't require a drive (putting, chipping, etc), so you wouldn't calculate it that way.

But, your sentence in bold gives away the biggest point: a cart rider would have to do something wrong to play slower than a walker (assuming they both hit their shots in the same place every hole).  That is because being in a cart is faster than walking.  About the only time it isn't is when cart paths dictate some logistical issues that a walker can navigate faster (example: cart path goes to the right side of the green, and the next tee box is on the left side of the same green, forcing the carts to park and then drive around, while the walker can put his bag on the left side of the green and walk a few steps to the next tee box...hardly saving a ton of time though).

Average person walks 4.5 feet per second, or 1.5 yards per second. Meaning on a 6000 yard course, add about 1200 yards for distance between holes, and offline shots, your looking at 80 minutes of walking time for 18 holes. Average golf cart speed is about 3x as fast, so 26 minutes to drive the course. The problem is that  golf carts hold 2 people, so one person is waiting for there copilot to hit, then they drive to the next spot. So golf carts drive father, which increase time. Also, if two people loose a golf ball in the same cart, then instead of two people individually looking for each others ball they search together for 1 ball, doubling the search time.

Best way to speed up carts, give the one person there clubs, take the cart to the next spot, prepare to hit, then go pick up the previous player on the way to the hole.

Carts are naturally faster, but they are not effecient when it comes to things like golf ball searching, and having the other occupant in the cart be ready to play on there turn when the other person is done.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Average person walks 4.5 feet per second, or 1.5 yards per second. Meaning on a 6000 yard course, add about 1200 yards for distance between holes, and offline shots, your looking at 80 minutes of walking time for 18 holes. Average golf cart speed is about 3x as fast, so 26 minutes to drive the course. The problem is that  golf carts hold 2 people, so one person is waiting for there copilot to hit, then they drive to the next spot. So golf carts drive father, which increase time. Also, if two people loose a golf ball in the same cart, then instead of two people individually looking for each others ball they search together for 1 ball, doubling the search time.

Best way to speed up carts, give the one person there clubs, take the cart to the next spot, prepare to hit, then go pick up the previous player on the way to the hole.

Carts are naturally faster, but they are not effecient when it comes to things like golf ball searching, and having the other occupant in the cart be ready to play on there turn when the other person is done.

I hate lost balls, whether I hit them or somebody else does, because they slow things down no matter who you are.

If I'm playing with somebody and they lose a ball I'm going to help them look for it, whether we are in a cart or not. A guy in our foursome Saturday couldn't find his ball even though another guy was in the cart with him and helping him look. When I noticed they couldn't find the ball I let my son out to hit his shot and drove over (100 yards offline) where they were looking for the ball and I found it within a few seconds. I would have gone over there if we had all been walking but it would have taken much longer. I can't imagine just playing on and ignoring the person that is looking for their golf ball or standing there watching them search for it.

[boil3rmak3r]

I think that us golfers are most important when it comes to pace of play. The responsibility of the golf course is to set expectations up front and address slow play on the course. I want the pro shop to have a proactive approach to us calling them while we're playing and telling them that they need to get out here and address slow play ahead of us. If they handle that properly, I think they've done their job. Also, while skill level can impact pace of play a tad, I don't think it's the main culprit. I play Saturday morning rounds with a money group. The caps range from scratch to 15. I play Sunday mornings with a group of casual golfers in which I am the lowest cap and others are in the 20's. My Sunday rounds consistently finish in 3:40. The Saturday rounds are more like 4:00 and can sometimes be as long ad 4:30. In my experience, the difference (as many have already stated) is playing ready golf and not having such a deliberate preshot routine. I can understand (I don't like it...) when a newbie plays at a 4:30 or 5 hour pace. Those guys at my course that carry a legit 13 handicap that plays at that pace, though, is unacceptable. Those guys are well aware of our frustrations, but they can't seem to speed up. The things they do: Align the ball on the tee for a driver so the line on the ball matches their intended start line. Back up and check the alignment

[boil3rmak3r]

I think that us golfers are most important when it comes to pace of play. The responsibility of the golf course is to set expectations up front and address slow play on the course. I want the pro shop to have a proactive approach to us calling them while we're playing and telling them that they need to get out here and address slow play ahead of us. If they handle that properly, I think they've done their job. Also, while skill level can impact pace of play a tad, I don't think it's the main culprit. I play Saturday morning rounds with a money group. The caps range from scratch to 15. I play Sunday mornings with a group of casual golfers in which I am the lowest cap and others are in the 20's. My Sunday rounds consistently finish in 3:40. The Saturday rounds are more like 4:00 and can sometimes be as long ad 4:30. In my experience, the difference (as many have already stated) is playing ready golf and not having such a deliberate preshot routine. I can understand (I don't like it...) when a newbie plays at a 4:30 or 5 hour pace. Those guys at my course that carry a legit 13 handicap that plays at that pace, though, is unacceptable. Those guys are well aware of our frustrations, but they can't seem to speed up. The things they do: Align the ball on the tee for a driver so the line on the ball matches their intended start line. Back up and check the alignment

I'm sorry, I am doing this on my IPhone and accidentally hit the reply button. Maybe someone can teach me how to edit my posts. To continue... Once they see the alignment mark isn't correct, they'll adjust it (maybe they'll do this a couple of times). Then, they take a few practice swings, a few deep breaths, a few more practice swings, and finally hit the ball. As this is going on, playing partners have resigned themselves to staring at the farmland behind us just to pass the time by. It's horrible; they post the results of every shot on their IPhone app so they have stats after the round (IMO, this should be banned. I can remember every shot after the round. Enter your stats then); and they act like they are playing golf so they can take a relaxing stroll outdoors. While most of us walk, some should be REQUIRED to ride!! Some folks walk at the pace of a snail in getting to their ball.

[Slice of Life]

lol at the people claiming carts are slower. Seriously?

Yeah, it's slower when I drive to work instead of walk too...

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I think you're going about your calculations wrong.  Realistically, you only walk in the direction of the fairway and in the direction of the green.  That's 2 minutes, if we assume 1 minute wait for each walk.  2 minutes multiplied by 18 holes is 36 minutes faster.  Every shot doesn't require a drive (putting, chipping, etc), so you wouldn't calculate it that way.

But, your sentence in bold gives away the biggest point: a cart rider would have to do something wrong to play slower than a walker (assuming they both hit their shots in the same place every hole).  That is because being in a cart is faster than walking.  About the only time it isn't is when cart paths dictate some logistical issues that a walker can navigate faster (example: cart path goes to the right side of the green, and the next tee box is on the left side of the same green, forcing the carts to park and then drive around, while the walker can put his bag on the left side of the green and walk a few steps to the next tee box...hardly saving a ton of time though).

Average person walks 4.5 feet per second, or 1.5 yards per second. Meaning on a 6000 yard course, add about 1200 yards for distance between holes, and offline shots, your looking at 80 minutes of walking time for 18 holes. Average golf cart speed is about 3x as fast, so 26 minutes to drive the course. The problem is that  golf carts hold 2 people, so one person is waiting for there copilot to hit, then they drive to the next spot. So golf carts drive father, which increase time. Also, if two people loose a golf ball in the same cart, then instead of two people individually looking for each others ball they search together for 1 ball, doubling the search time.

Best way to speed up carts, give the one person there clubs, take the cart to the next spot, prepare to hit, then go pick up the previous player on the way to the hole.

Carts are naturally faster, but they are not effecient when it comes to things like golf ball searching, and having the other occupant in the cart be ready to play on there turn when the other person is done.

You clearly haven't got a clue how to use a cart if this is your honest opinion.

Here's a pair of typical scenarios for just about anyone I play with.  I'm sharing a cart with Player B and a cart.  The group hits from the tee, and Player B slices his ball out into the native grass - it may or may not be findable or playable.  After the rest of the group hits, he plays his provisional ball.  They get into the cart and head out.

Scenario !:  The group in front of them is just starting to putt as B and I get to the area (as close as the cart is allowed to go, but not out in the native) where B's ball is thought to be.   Both players get out and start to search, while still keeping an eye on the green.  They haven't found the ball by the time the players in front start to walk off the green.  Player A abandons the search and we drive to his provisional ball, he gets out with a club or 2 and I drive to my ball.  By the time I grab my club he has played, I play, pick him up where he is walking up the fairway and we head for the green.

Scenario 2:  The green is already clearing as we drive up the fairway.  I drive straight to my ball and get out with a couple of clubs.  Player B drives over for a quick look to see if he can find his ball.  He only searches while the other 3 of us play our approach shots, then he goes straight to his provisional ball and hits.   He picks me up as I walk toward the hole, and we all head for the green.  In both cases, we have played our approach shots promptly, there is no inefficiency in cart use.

Just because I happen to be the designated driver for he round doesn't mean that I can't be the first one dropped off while my buddy slides over and drives to his ball.  As soon as the first one hits, he can either walk over to where the cart is parked, or head up the fairway to be picked up en route to his next shot.

In any event, it isn't the cart which create inefficiency, it's the people using them (or in the instance where the course has inefficient requirements for their use the blame goes on the course management).  I won't (can't) play if they require cart path only.  That usually amounts to more walking than if you walked the full round.  If I could walk the course, I would.  I have even gotten handicapped permission to drive the fairway when the course had cart path only (with some GPS carts they can set them so that the cart shuts down when it leaves the cart path, and the starter disables that when you have handicap permission).

[saevel25]

your actually using the cart how i would suggest, its just most people don't. I can't count the number of times i've been stuck behind 4 people in carts, all sitting waiting, not even up near there ball getting ready. Then they speed off 40 yards to the next ball, all sitting and waiting for 1 person t hit. Its absurd. I was

so i don't get why you say i have no clue how to use a cart. For one, my dad and I probably use less of a cart when we do have a cart. My dad will take his clubs and i will head off to my ball, and he will actually meet me at the green. Because he will hit, then start walking forward, and i will hit and then go pick him up. We actually walk a lot when we use a cart.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You clearly haven't got a clue how to use a cart if this is your honest opinion.

Here's a pair of typical scenarios for just about anyone I play with.  I'm sharing a cart with Player B and a cart.  The group hits from the tee, and Player B slices his ball out into the native grass - it may or may not be findable or playable.  After the rest of the group hits, he plays his provisional ball.  They get into the cart and head out.

Scenario !:  The group in front of them is just starting to putt as B and I get to the area (as close as the cart is allowed to go, but not out in the native) where B's ball is thought to be.   Both players get out and start to search, while still keeping an eye on the green.  They haven't found the ball by the time the players in front start to walk off the green.  Player A abandons the search and we drive to his provisional ball, he gets out with a club or 2 and I drive to my ball.  By the time I grab my club he has played, I play, pick him up where he is walking up the fairway and we head for the green.

Scenario 2:  The green is already clearing as we drive up the fairway.  I drive straight to my ball and get out with a couple of clubs.  Player B drives over for a quick look to see if he can find his ball.  He only searches while the other 3 of us play our approach shots, then he goes straight to his provisional ball and hits.   He picks me up as I walk toward the hole, and we all head for the green.  In both cases, we have played our approach shots promptly, there is no inefficiency in cart use.

Just because I happen to be the designated driver for he round doesn't mean that I can't be the first one dropped off while my buddy slides over and drives to his ball.  As soon as the first one hits, he can either walk over to where the cart is parked, or head up the fairway to be picked up en route to his next shot.

In any event, it isn't the cart which create inefficiency, it's the people using them (or in the instance where the course has inefficient requirements for their use the blame goes on the course management).  I won't (can't) play if they require cart path only.  That usually amounts to more walking than if you walked the full round.  If I could walk the course, I would.  I have even gotten handicapped permission to drive the fairway when the course had cart path only (with some GPS carts they can set them so that the cart shuts down when it leaves the cart path, and the starter disables that when you have handicap permission).

The problem is most people don't use a cart out of necessity or because it's faster.  They use a cart because they are a lazy pile who couldn't even imagine walking a course.  While your scenarios are text book on how it should be done.  More often it goes like this.

Player B slices his ball into native grass.  Player A hits his on to fairway.  The cart is driven over to native grass.  The cart is then driven up and down the line of grass with both men trying to find the ball.  After they can't find it the cart is parked, A and B get out and do a couple of 360 spins trying to eye were the ball could be.  After a hefty wait B decides to just drop a ball and play on.  Oh crap, The cart is parked in the line of player B.  Player A gets in and swings the cart around behind Player B.  Player B takes a vicious hack and advances the ball 30 yards.  Player B gets in the cart and they drive to Player B's shot.  Player B hits his shot up to where player A's is, however he is in the rough 50 yards to the left.  The cart is driven to A's Ball.  A gets out and hits.  A gets back into the cart and is driven to player B's position.  This continues for 18 holes, you get the picture.

I would say that my scenario is the norm and yours is the exception.  Since the majority of cart players play like I have described, yes I can play much faster than 2 people in a cart walking, it isn't even close.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by trackster

Player B slices his ball into native grass.  Player A hits his on to fairway.  The cart is driven over to native grass.  The cart is then driven up and down the line of grass with both men trying to find the ball.  After they can't find it the cart is parked, A and B get out and do a couple of 360 spins trying to eye were the ball could be.  After a hefty wait B decides to just drop a ball and play on.  Oh crap, The cart is parked in the line of player B.  Player A gets in and swings the cart around behind Player B.  Player B takes a vicious hack and advances the ball 30 yards.  Player B gets in the cart and they drive to Player B's shot.  Player B hits his shot up to where player A's is, however he is in the rough 50 yards to the left.  The cart is driven to A's Ball.  A gets out and hits.  A gets back into the cart and is driven to player B's position.  This continues for 18 holes, you get the picture.

lol

I've seen this so many times. However, don't blame the cart...they'd probably do the same thing walking. Except they'd do it even slower.