"Hey! While we're young!" - USGA Pace of Play

[Slice of Life]

How is this thread still going?

People golf slow.

We all hate it, and think they should golf faster.

/thread

[6iron]

I was playing alone last week and got behind a threesome on #14. It looked like a father and his two sons. One was about 12 and the other boy looked to be 15 or so. They were hitting numerous balls everywhere and laughing at each other. The dad hit a tree in front of him and the ball bounced back to the pro tees!  They were just having a good ole time and would look back at me, as if they were entertaining me. After a while I realized that they didn't understand what they were doing wasn't acceptable on a golf course so I just sit in my cart and waited penitently while they finished the last three holes. I didn't have the nerve to address the problem. If I had been on the front 9, I would have ask to play through.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Yep. And people can talk about the costs of that, but the bottom line is that it's in the best interest of the golf course. Quicker rounds, means more golfers. Say you pay some old retired guy minimum wage + free golf to do the job. That's what, <$100 a day? All you need is one extra foursome to get out and you've made your money back...

Would you want to drive around the course and get into hassles with drunk golfers for <$100 a day + free golf, I wouldn't.  Why do drivers continue to speed, run red lights, drive too slow, drive recklessly or drive drunk?  They all know the laws, they do it because they think they are above the law or they just don't care.

You run into many of the same on the golf course.  These guys think because they paid their green fees they can do what they want.  Education is part of it, which is why the commercials are good and imo certainly better than sending some poor retired guy into the lions den to tell a bunch of idiots they need to pick up the pace or he's kicking them out.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Would you want to drive around the course and get into hassles with drunk golfers for <$100 a day + free golf, I wouldn't.  Why do drivers continue to speed, run red lights, drive too slow, drive recklessly or drive drunk?  They all know the laws, they do it because they think they are above the law or they just don't care.

You run into many of the same on the golf course.  These guys think because they paid their green fees they can do what they want.  Education is part of it, which is why the commercials are good and imo certainly better than sending some poor retired guy into the lions den to tell a bunch of idiots they need to pick up the pace or he's kicking them out.

Absolutely. Why not? I know plenty of retired people who would have no issue with that. You drive around and keep the pace up...have signs posted showing what your pace of play should be, and the Marshal enforces it.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Would you want to drive around the course and get into hassles with drunk golfers for <$100 a day + free golf, I wouldn't.  Why do drivers continue to speed, run red lights, drive too slow, drive recklessly or drive drunk?  They all know the laws, they do it because they think they are above the law or they just don't care.

You run into many of the same on the golf course.  These guys think because they paid their green fees they can do what they want.  Education is part of it, which is why the commercials are good and imo certainly better than sending some poor retired guy into the lions den to tell a bunch of idiots they need to pick up the pace or he's kicking them out.

Totally agree.

My dad started playing last year, and since neither of us were any good we were slow at times as we hit a lot of shots. He would get irritated when the marshall asked us to play faster(sometimes this was unreasonable as the group in front of us was the problem, but not all the time) and his reasoning was exactly as you stated, he paid good money for that round. Funny thing is, a year later we are both a lot better and now he laughs at the fact he is irritated at the slow players in front of us who hit lots of shots.

Bottom line, this campaign is successful because it's purpose is to start the conversation, which this thread proves has happened. Once you create it as a common topic it gets on people's minds and they start doing stuff about it on their own.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Lash

Totally agree.

My dad started playing last year, and since neither of us were any good we were slow at times as we hit a lot of shots. He would get irritated when the marshall asked us to play faster(sometimes this was unreasonable as the group in front of us was the problem, but not all the time) and his reasoning was exactly as you stated, he paid good money for that round. Funny thing is, a year later we are both a lot better and now he laughs at the fact he is irritated at the slow players in front of us who hit lots of shots.

Bottom line, this campaign is successful because it's purpose is to start the conversation, which this thread proves has happened. Once you create it as a common topic it gets on people's minds and they start doing stuff about it on their own.

I see your point, but I hate that excuse. Yeah, he paid good money...so did everyone whose day is getting ruined spending 3 hours just standing around waiting at a golf course.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Lash

Totally agree.

My dad started playing last year, and since neither of us were any good we were slow at times as we hit a lot of shots. He would get irritated when the marshall asked us to play faster(sometimes this was unreasonable as the group in front of us was the problem, but not all the time) and his reasoning was exactly as you stated, he paid good money for that round. Funny thing is, a year later we are both a lot better and now he laughs at the fact he is irritated at the slow players in front of us who hit lots of shots.

Bottom line, this campaign is successful because it's purpose is to start the conversation, which this thread proves has happened. Once you create it as a common topic it gets on people's minds and they start doing stuff about it on their own.

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

I see your point, but I hate that excuse. Yeah, he paid good money...so did everyone whose day is getting ruined spending 3 hours just standing around waiting at a golf course.

He wasn't making that excuse ... his dad was.  Further, his very next sentence states that his dad doesn't do that anymore.  Why are you calling him out on it?

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

He wasn't making that excuse ... his dad was.  Further, his very next sentence states that his dad doesn't do that anymore.  Why are you calling him out on it?

That's why I said "he", and not "you".

No need to get defensive, just saying I've heard that excuse so many times, and it's just plain out invalid. I'm not attacking anyone, no love lost here.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

That's why I said "he", and not "you".

No need to get defensive, just saying I've heard that excuse so many times, and it's just plain out invalid. I'm not attacking anyone, no love lost here.

But still ... you don't get to just use people willy-nilly to make your point and grandstand.  He posted to AGREE with a guy who said he was annoyed at people who use that excuse, then threw his dad in there as a little anecdote of a guy who used to try and make that excuse, but has since learned the error of his ways.

Coming in after that and saying "Your dad is wrong!!!" is just plain stupid, and its completely pointless.  And it makes it look like you didn't really read everything before chiming in.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

But still ... you don't get to just use people willy-nilly to make your point and grandstand.  He posted to AGREE with a guy who said he was annoyed at people who use that excuse, then threw his dad in there as a little anecdote of a guy who used to try and make that excuse, but has since learned the error of his ways.

Coming in after that and saying "Your dad is wrong!!!" is just plain stupid, and its completely pointless.  And it makes it look like you didn't really read everything before chiming in.

Fair enough. Didn't mean to come off as an a-hole, my apologies, Lash.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Fair enough. Didn't mean to come off as an a-hole, my apologies, Lash.

No problem...I didn't think anything of it.

My dad also hates that excuse now. I was just mentioning it as a real-world example of someone who thinks the way newtogolf mentioned, and why it's good to get the conversation out there. The more people talk about it, the more people and clubs will look for ways to do something about it.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Lash

No problem...I didn't think anything of it.

My dad also hates that excuse now. I was just mentioning it as a real-world example of someone who thinks the way newtogolf mentioned, and why it's good to get the conversation out there. The more people talk about it, the more people and clubs will look for ways to do something about it.

Yeah, I'm fortunate I guess, the only time I've really been put off by slow play this summer was when I was behind a women's league. Mother of God...almost 3 hours for 9 holes.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by 6iron

I was playing alone last week and got behind a threesome on #14. It looked like a father and his two sons. One was about 12 and the other boy looked to be 15 or so. They were hitting numerous balls everywhere and laughing at each other. The dad hit a tree in front of him and the ball bounced back to the pro tees!  They were just having a good ole time and would look back at me, as if they were entertaining me.  After a while I realized that they didn't understand what they were doing wasn't acceptable on a golf course so I just sit in my cart and waited penitently while they finished the last three holes. I didn't have the nerve to address the problem. If I had been on the front 9, I would have ask to play through.

You know, THIS is the problem (and I'm sorry you had to be the one I quoted, 6iron.  You're not the only one guilty of this.)

It's about time some of you guys grew some balls.  That's what this campaign is about.  It's not just about getting slow players to play faster, it's about getting YOU, the avid golfer who both plays AND watches golf (and subsequently will see the commercials) to step up and add some peer pressure (and education) for the less experienced golfers, many of whom don't know any better.

If some of you guys are just going to sit back and NOT do anything about it, well guess what...you're part of the problem.  Just like the people who complain about golfers who break course rules (not adhering to cart restrictions, etc) and refuse to report it.  Listen...it's ALL of our jobs to make sure OUR courses are taken care of.  It's also our responsibility to do a little something to help cure the problem of slow play.  When you see someone goofing off that seems oblivious to the problem they may be causing for EVERYONE on the course, grow a pair and step up and POLITELY let them know that even though they're having a good time, they're slowing things down for every group behind them on the course just like a rubber-necker in heavy traffic and that is ruining a lot of other people's good time.

Asking to play through is NOT the solution.  They're probably going to be back on that course, and if they're 4 groups in front of you slowing everyone down, don't you think you'd WANT the group behind them to ask them to stop goofing off and let them know what an acceptable pace is for the course?

So many are complaining about the problem but not taking any of the responsibility for doing something about it, even though just about ALL of us have been behind those groups (and there are plenty of stories in this thread to demonstrate that fact).  "Hire marshals."  Golf is a self-policing game.  We police the rules on our own game.  The course management also relies on each of us to report things that would be harmful to the course.  Slow play has to cost a course money.  I know if I want to get an afternoon round in, I'm not going to play someplace that I know I can't finish before dark.

This campaign is about getting US to speak up.  It baffles me how some of you guys just don't get that.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by dave67az

You know, THIS is the problem (and I'm sorry you had to be the one I quoted, 6iron.  You're not the only one guilty of this.)

It's about time some of you guys grew some balls.  That's what this campaign is about.  It's not just about getting slow players to play faster, it's about getting YOU, the avid golfer who both plays AND watches golf (and subsequently will see the commercials) to step up and add some peer pressure (and education) for the less experienced golfers, many of whom don't know any better.

If some of you guys are just going to sit back and NOT do anything about it, well guess what...you're part of the problem.  Just like the people who complain about golfers who break course rules (not adhering to cart restrictions, etc) and refuse to report it.  Listen...it's ALL of our jobs to make sure OUR courses are taken care of.  It's also our responsibility to do a little something to help cure the problem of slow play.  When you see someone goofing off that seems oblivious to the problem they may be causing for EVERYONE on the course, grow a pair and step up and POLITELY let them know that even though they're having a good time, they're slowing things down for every group behind them on the course just like a rubber-necker in heavy traffic and that is ruining a lot of other people's good time.

Asking to play through is NOT the solution.  They're probably going to be back on that course, and if they're 4 groups in front of you slowing everyone down, don't you think you'd WANT the group behind them to ask them to stop goofing off and let them know what an acceptable pace is for the course?

So many are complaining about the problem but not taking any of the responsibility for doing something about it, even though just about ALL of us have been behind those groups (and there are plenty of stories in this thread to demonstrate that fact).  "Hire marshals."  Golf is a self-policing game.  We police the rules on our own game.  The course management also relies on each of us to report things that would be harmful to the course.  Slow play has to cost a course money.  I know if I want to get an afternoon round in, I'm not going to play someplace that I know I can't finish before dark.

This campaign is about getting US to speak up.  It baffles me how some of you guys just don't get that.

Do you chase down speeders, red light runners and drunk drivers and politely tell them they are breaking the law too?  At best you call 911 and most likely nothing happens.

As a former bouncer, I speak from experience in that there's no easy way to approach drunk belligerent idiots and tell them anything "politely", no less that they are playing to slow without it escalating into something more.  I play golf for enjoyment and relaxation.  When it reaches the point where I have to risk getting into a verbal or physical confrontation to enjoy the game, I'll just leave and find someplace else to play.

If the courses are losing money, let them hire marshals armed with mace and batons so they can defend themselves from these idiots but to expect retired unarmed guys or other golfers to risk a confrontation is a bad idea imo.

In the commercials everyone is good natured and nice, not so much in the real world.  I invite you to come to NY and try yelling at someone "Hey!  While we're young!" as their preparing to hit a drive.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Do you chase down speeders, red light runners and drunk drivers and politely tell them they are breaking the law too?  At best you call 911 and most likely nothing happens.

As a former bouncer, I speak from experience in that there's no easy way to approach drunk belligerent idiots and tell them anything "politely", no less that they are playing to slow without it escalating into something more.  I play golf for enjoyment and relaxation.  When it reaches the point where I have to risk getting into a verbal or physical confrontation to enjoy the game, I'll just leave and find someplace else to play.

If the courses are losing money, let them hire marshals armed with mace and batons so they can defend themselves from these idiots but to expect retired unarmed guys or other golfers to risk a confrontation is a bad idea imo.

In the commercials everyone is good natured and nice, not so much in the real world.  I invite you to come to NY and try yelling at someone "Hey!  While we're young!" as their preparing to hit a drive.

I do hear you.  And I've been there, around guys way bigger than me.  But do me a favor and re-read some of the posts in this thread.  They're not all about big guys who someone was afraid of.  Many are about beginners to the game who just didn't know any better (like the man out with his sons, or the group of ladies).

Your comparison doesn't work, either, because we have a department that each of us pays for that enforces traffic laws.  They don't catch everyone.  But you made a really good point...it's still OUR responsibility to call 911 and report violations when we see them...isn't it?  So in all these stories about slow play, just how many do you think were reported to the pro-shop at the turn or the end of the day?

I don't expect the course to hire someone to do something that we should ALL be doing, but I also wouldn't have a problem paying another $2 a round to play on a course that DID hire marshals to police the idiots who play slow, and who don't keep the carts away from the greens, don't repair divots, and don't rake the traps.  And yes, I get your point that there are some cases when we're outnumbered that we may want to wait until we get to the pro shop to say something.  Hoffa's last words may have been "While we're young!".

But for MANY of the cases that I've read in this thread, something could have been said and each time it seems there was a lazy excuse.  You know...back in the olden days we actually didn't fear social interaction.  It was part of life.  We knew how to say things and be polite about it so the other person didn't think we were trying to start something.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Do you chase down speeders, red light runners and drunk drivers and politely tell them they are breaking the law too?  At best you call 911 and most likely nothing happens.

As a former bouncer, I speak from experience in that there's no easy way to approach drunk belligerent idiots and tell them anything "politely", no less that they are playing to slow without it escalating into something more.  I play golf for enjoyment and relaxation.  When it reaches the point where I have to risk getting into a verbal or physical confrontation to enjoy the game, I'll just leave and find someplace else to play.

If the courses are losing money, let them hire marshals armed with mace and batons so they can defend themselves from these idiots but to expect retired unarmed guys or other golfers to risk a confrontation is a bad idea imo.

In the commercials everyone is good natured and nice, not so much in the real world.  I invite you to come to NY and try yelling at someone "Hey!  While we're young!" as their preparing to hit a drive.

I was going to asked where in the world you played golf, that everyone was so confrontational. But your last sentence clears that up. Between being in NY, and yelling at someone during their drive...it's no wonder you think everyone that plays golf is a drunk a-hole.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Lash

I was going to asked where in the world you played golf, that everyone was so confrontational. But your last sentence clears that up. Between being in NY, and yelling at someone during their drive...it's no wonder you think everyone that plays golf is a drunk a-hole.

NY gets a bad rap but like internet muscles, guys in NY tend to get beer muscles too.

I've only had one confrontation in three years of playing golf and that was guys hitting into us.  They guys apologized and the situation didn't escalate but here maybe more than other places it's something you need to be prepared for if you're going to confront someone.

I play at a private club now and so far I've yet to encounter anyone drinking while playing no less someone drunk which is how I prefer it.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by dave67az

I do hear you.  And I've been there, around guys way bigger than me.  But do me a favor and re-read some of the posts in this thread.  They're not all about big guys who someone was afraid of.  Many are about beginners to the game who just didn't know any better (like the man out with his sons, or the group of ladies).

Your comparison doesn't work, either, because we have a department that each of us pays for that enforces traffic laws.  They don't catch everyone.  But you made a really good point...it's still OUR responsibility to call 911 and report violations when we see them...isn't it?  So in all these stories about slow play, just how many do you think were reported to the pro-shop at the turn or the end of the day?

I don't expect the course to hire someone to do something that we should ALL be doing, but I also wouldn't have a problem paying another $2 a round to play on a course that DID hire marshals to police the idiots who play slow, and who don't keep the carts away from the greens, don't repair divots, and don't rake the traps.  And yes, I get your point that there are some cases when we're outnumbered that we may want to wait until we get to the pro shop to say something.  Hoffa's last words may have been "While we're young!".

But for MANY of the cases that I've read in this thread, something could have been said and each time it seems there was a lazy excuse.  You know...back in the olden days we actually didn't fear social interaction.  It was part of life.  We knew how to say things and be polite about it so the other person didn't think we were trying to start something.

Dave, I agree that when the situation allows, we all should help to educate people on pace of play.

In an earlier post I mentioned an incident with the Ladies Golf League and the way the women in front of us played it looked more like shuffle board than golf.  When our round ended early due to lightning, they apologized for playing slow and I responded that I was new to the game too and appreciated the effort it takes to learn as well as point out that they should pick up after double par or they might encounter less friendly reactions to their play.

When I played public courses I saw a mix of dads with his kids, drunken idiots, serious golfers and newbies.  With a mix like that it's hard to know who's at fault for the slow pace of play if it's not the groups immediately in front of you.  Unless you're one of the first groups out on a given day you may not ever know who caused the back up.

Ultimately the course has the take the responsibility if this is going to gain any traction.  Courses are in a tough spot, they don't want altercations or lost business due to enforcing pace of play rules but at the same time they know if they don't they will likely lose the serious golfers as customers which will only compound their pace of play problems.  The police recognize that they can't stop people from violating traffic laws and they can't write everyone a ticket (at least not until cameras for speeding are deployed) so they go after the worst offenders.  People who drive 65 in a 55 are left alone but the guy driving 85 gets pulled over.

I think courses are going to have to do the same thing unless they use golf cart technology like Dave describes where the cart shuts down when they fall too far behind their pace.  This will require courses using gas carts to invest in electric carts, outfitting every cart with gps and the technology to shut down the cart remotely or through the gps software which is likely not a cheap solution.

Your hearts in the right place and I get your point, but you have to consider that calling strangers out on slow play is not always possible or smart (personal safety).  The courses have to make it a priority, I'd feel a lot better going up to the guys in front of me and telling them they better speed up or their cart is going to die because of slow play rather then make them think this is my personal crusade to speed up pace of play.