Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
pipergsm

Lipping out Putts

Recommended Posts

When putting, I usually try to calculate the speed of the ball such that, if I miss the hole, it will not pass it by more than 2 feet, often resulting in the fact that my ball comes up just a little short.

This is not my biggest problem however.

Quite often, I see my ball going in (half) and coming out again (lipping out?).

Is this caused by a specific flaw in the way I put, or is it rather bad luck and will it get better as I practice more?

Thanks for the answers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

It's a combination of hitting the ball too firmly and too far off center (the hole's center).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by iacas

It's a combination of hitting the ball too firmly and too far off center (the hole's center).

Hitting the ball off center, or off center from the hole?

Hitting firm means the ball goes too fast, yes?

It often happens when the ball only just reaches the hole. If it wouldn't lip, it would probably stop less than 1 foot behind the hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by pipergsm

Hitting the ball off center, or off center from the hole?

Hitting firm means the ball goes too fast, yes?

It often happens when the ball only just reaches the hole. If it wouldn't lip, it would probably stop less than 1 foot behind the hole.

Sorry, didn't read the last part, off center from the hole, got it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a couple of tips from GolfTEC*:

  • Short Flagstick as Guide: Find a level place on the practice green, and lay down the short flagstick so that it points to the right edge of the cup (for R.handed golfers). Place a ball next to it, and stroke it with your putter. Your putter toe will come just inside the stick, and the ball will be headed for the center of the cup if you hit it squarely. This supposedly helps build alignment and tempo.
  • Missing to Edge: If you miss to the left edge a lot, you may be rotating your shoulders sideways on followthrough rather than letting them "rock" back and forth in a pendulum.
  • Coming Up Short: You may not be accelerating smoothly on your forward stroke.

*Mercedes-Benz teamed up with GolfTEC at the recent Senior PGA Championship to give a computerized swing analysis and putting analysis to people who came to the tournament.

Also, you might look into the arc of your putting stroke. Ping suggests you make sure your putter type matches your arc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by WUTiger

Here's a couple of tips from GolfTEC*:

Short Flagstick as Guide: Find a level place on the practice green, and lay down the short flagstick so that it points to the right edge of the cup (for R.handed golfers). Place a ball next to it, and stroke it with your putter. Your putter toe will come just inside the stick, and the ball will be headed for the center of the cup if you hit it squarely. This supposedly helps build alignment and tempo.

Missing to Edge: If you miss to the left edge a lot, you may be rotating your shoulders sideways on followthrough rather than letting them "rock" back and forth in a pendulum.

Coming Up Short: You may not be accelerating smoothly on your forward stroke.

*Mercedes-Benz teamed up with GolfTEC at the recent Senior PGA Championship to give a computerized swing analysis and putting analysis to people who came to the tournament.

Also, you might look into the arc of your putting stroke. Ping suggests you make sure your putter type matches your arc.

Thanks!

But it often happens when I need to hit it right or left because of a break on the green.

The ball will then make the break, hit the edge of the hole, but instead of going in, lips out.

It even happened several times that the ball went straight over the hole without dropping, while the speed of the ball was, in my opinion, not extremely high (never see that happening with other golfers!)

This is why I started putting at such a speed that the ball can't go much behind the hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by WUTiger

Here's a couple of tips from GolfTEC*:

Short Flagstick as Guide: Find a level place on the practice green, and lay down the short flagstick so that it points to the right edge of the cup (for R.handed golfers). Place a ball next to it, and stroke it with your putter. Your putter toe will come just inside the stick, and the ball will be headed for the center of the cup if you hit it squarely. This supposedly helps build alignment and tempo.

Missing to Edge: If you miss to the left edge a lot, you may be rotating your shoulders sideways on followthrough rather than letting them "rock" back and forth in a pendulum.

Coming Up Short: You may not be accelerating smoothly on your forward stroke.

*Mercedes-Benz teamed up with GolfTEC at the recent Senior PGA Championship to give a computerized swing analysis and putting analysis to people who came to the tournament.

Also, you might look into the arc of your putting stroke. Ping suggests you make sure your putter type matches your arc.

What exactly do you mean with "arc of the putting stroke"?

I (try to) swing the putter like a pendulum always, straight back, straight forward, on line to the target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by pipergsm

What exactly do you mean with "arc of the putting stroke"?

I (try to) swing the putter like a pendulum always, straight back, straight forward, on line to the target.

This is pings method of fitting putters. Basically putters are designed to mach your stroke type. Your stroke type is straight - straight, they still call it an arc, oh well.

Personally i don't like straight - straight, its to hard to do that type of stroke for me. I end up cutting across the ball. I am an arc putter, basically the clubhead will go back and in on the backstroke, arc back to the ball, and then a slightly shallow arc going into the fllow through. Its just what's naturally for me. I hate forcing the putt. Putting requires so much feel, i rather see someone do something that feels effortless. I putt horrible when i tihnk.

Basically lipping out happens most when you have a slight curve to a straight putt that has to much speed for the ball to be captured by the hole. Look up Putting Capture speed here on the Forum. Its a cool subject to think about. Basically gravity pulls the ball into the hole, and if you have to much speed then the ball doesn't have enough time for the ball to fall into the hole before it catches the edge and lips out. Its why i tend to want the ball to die into the hole, maximize the chance of the ball to catch the edge. This is why uphill putts to me are easier to make, the ball is slowing down at a greater rate, and a higher chance of it falling into the hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by saevel25

This is pings method of fitting putters. Basically putters are designed to mach your stroke type. Your stroke type is straight - straight, they still call it an arc, oh well.

Personally i don't like straight - straight, its to hard to do that type of stroke for me. I end up cutting across the ball. I am an arc putter, basically the clubhead will go back and in on the backstroke, arc back to the ball, and then a slightly shallow arc going into the fllow through. Its just what's naturally for me. I hate forcing the putt. Putting requires so much feel, i rather see someone do something that feels effortless. I putt horrible when i tihnk.

Basically lipping out happens most when you have a slight curve to a straight putt that has to much speed for the ball to be captured by the hole. Look up Putting Capture speed here on the Forum. Its a cool subject to think about. Basically gravity pulls the ball into the hole, and if you have to much speed then the ball doesn't have enough time for the ball to fall into the hole before it catches the edge and lips out. Its why i tend to want the ball to die into the hole, maximize the chance of the ball to catch the edge. This is why uphill putts to me are easier to make, the ball is slowing down at a greater rate, and a higher chance of it falling into the hole.

Thanks for the explanation.

I also try to let the ball die into the hole, but it still happens!

So many times I see other golfers doing it and the ball drops.

But with me, even when the ball goes slow, if it doesn't hit the hole 100% pure, it lips out!

I'ts come so far that I'm really surprised whenever a lip goes in!

Could this be caused by the kind of spin my stroke generates?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really, even if you put side spin on a putt (very hard to do) the ball will still roll with top spin.

I am thinking your just hitting it to hard, even you think the ball is dying in the hole. If it doesn't lip out, how far past the hole do your putts go? Even so, if your just catching the lip, any sort of speed on the ball will cause a lip no matter what. So, its all relative to what your perceiving and what's actually happening. You never know, maybe your playing partners are catching more of the hole, but from your perspective it looks similar to your putts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by saevel25

Not really, even if you put side spin on a putt (very hard to do) the ball will still roll with top spin.

I am thinking your just hitting it to hard, even you think the ball is dying in the hole. If it doesn't lip out, how far past the hole do your putts go? Even so, if your just catching the lip, any sort of speed on the ball will cause a lip no matter what. So, its all relative to what your perceiving and what's actually happening. You never know, maybe your playing partners are catching more of the hole, but from your perspective it looks similar to your putts.

Mmmm, maybe you're right and I'm just not seeing it.

I do seem to have a little problem with my eyes.

I feel it mostly when I have to estimate distances, sometimes I'm way of.

Also when I drive the ball, whenever it passes 200, I have a serious problem just seeing the ball, both in the air as at touch down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another 2 examples of strangely missed putts.

I played 9 holes today, finishing in 45, not bad for me.

Just a pity of those very close misses I had today (5) from which I'd like to hear your comments on what could be the cause.

1st was from 18 feet, straight line.

I hit the ball quite well, it reaches the hole just left of the center line, and just in front of the hole it makes a strange bounce and jumps over!

Any ideas?

2nd from 21 feet, straight line again.

the ball goes in, hits the back of the hole and bounces out again, staying still on the edge of the hole!

Are these misses purely a problem of ball speed, or is there something else going on?

The other misses were just a matter of the ball kissing the edge of the hole, or stopping just in front of it (usually with some slope and break, and from 9 to 25 feet)

Thanks for your reactions!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by pipergsm

Another 2 examples of strangely missed putts.

I played 9 holes today, finishing in 45, not bad for me.

Just a pity of those very close misses I had today (5) from which I'd like to hear your comments on what could be the cause.

1st was from 18 feet, straight line.

I hit the ball quite well, it reaches the hole just left of the center line, and just in front of the hole it makes a strange bounce and jumps over!

Any ideas?

2nd from 21 feet, straight line again.

the ball goes in, hits the back of the hole and bounces out again, staying still on the edge of the hole!

Are these misses purely a problem of ball speed, or is there something else going on?

The other misses were just a matter of the ball kissing the edge of the hole, or stopping just in front of it (usually with some slope and break, and from 9 to 25 feet)

Thanks for your reactions!

No way to say for sure about your putts. Sometimes we simply get bad bounces or catch some grain that has more influence than we expected. I do my best to follow Brad Faxon's advice and make the best read I can, make the best roll I can, and not worry about it if it doesn't go in.

Not pertaining to you (because I've never seen you roll the ball) but in general a very good roll is influenced less by bad bounces and grain than bad rolls. Not all good rolls go in the hole and not all bad rolls miss but at the end of the day the percentages are much higher for the really good rolls.

I really try to not be influenced by a "read" I get from someone that I know can't roll the ball. Their ball will almost always break more than mine.

Best test (and practice) to check the roll: Put a line around the ball, put a chalk line on the green on a straight putt, and roll the ball down the chalk line making sure the line on the ball has no wobble as it rolls.

Just one of my quirks: I never practice putting at a hole (ever). Instead I practice putting at a dime. Mentally the last thing I want to do before a round is to miss a putt. If I miss a dime it doesn't have the same effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What exactly do you mean with "arc of the putting stroke"? I (try to) swing the putter like a pendulum always, straight back, straight forward, on line to the target.

That's a problem You stand to the side of the ball How can you do straight back and straight through unless your upper body is parallel to the ground ala Michelle Wie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

My upper body is indeed bent over quite strongly.

Don't know if its really parallel to the ground though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About two years ago, an optometrist explained the problem of "staright back, straight forward." He said if you really do pull it straight back (not allowing minimal arc), you usually pull your backstroke to the outside. Then, on the forward stroke, you may miss to the left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by pipergsm

When putting, I usually try to calculate the speed of the ball such that, if I miss the hole, it will not pass it by more than 2 feet, often resulting in the fact that my ball comes up just a little short.

This is not my biggest problem however.

Quite often, I see my ball going in (half) and coming out again (lipping out?).

Is this caused by a specific flaw in the way I put, or is it rather bad luck and will it get better as I practice more?

It's pure physics.  The ball is going too fast relative to how off line it is from the center of the hole.  I had this playing partner today say "Ah, you got robbed" to me a couple of times when I lipped out.  Now, I didn't get robbed, I hit the putt wrong, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by pipergsm

(never see that happening with other golfers!)

Then you either always play alone, or you are really not paying attention.  Again, it's physics.  If the ball is going too fast, it's going to lip out.

Originally Posted by pipergsm

So many times I see other golfers doing it and the ball drops.

But with me, even when the ball goes slow, if it doesn't hit the hole 100% pure, it lips out!

You're delusional.  Nothing "special" is happening to you.  The putts that you see falling (whether yours or anybody elses) are hit with proper speed (relative to how off center they are) and the ones that miss are not.

Originally Posted by pipergsm

1st was from 18 feet, straight line.

I hit the ball quite well, it reaches the hole just left of the center line, and just in front of the hole it makes a strange bounce and jumps over!

Any ideas?

2nd from 21 feet, straight line again.

the ball goes in, hits the back of the hole and bounces out again, staying still on the edge of the hole!

Are these misses purely a problem of ball speed, or is there something else going on?

Yes, Patrick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I played a cheap par 3 9 hole course last year with my girlfriend and got to enjoy 22 putts.  After I was missing 6 inch putts that should have dropped on multiple holes I started inspecting the holes.  They were definitely not cut out right.  If you were not dead centering the hole the ball was not going to fall in.  It was actually kind of comical to see the ball dance its way out of the hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    Talamore Golf Resort
    PING Golf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Mission Belt
    Snell Golf
    Frogger Golf
    PitchFix USA
  • Posts

    • That's dumb. If you are "developing your swing" it's made better by the right amount of feedback. And > 1/2 of the time, the "feedback" doesn't even really include what the ball does. The ball flight takes care of itself. It is. Significantly so. From 140 yards, the gap in fairway vs. rough is a fifth of a shot. From 160, a quarter of a shot. There you go again putting words in my mouth, or (willfully?) mis-remembering stuff. I've pointed out the opposite many times: that the advances in equipment have narrowed the gap between players like Tiger and his peers. You couldn't mis-hit a muscleback 2-iron. You can mis-hit a 3-hybrid a little and still do okay. The gap in skill has been artificially reduced. Jack says it. Tiger says it. I've said it. Of course the modern ball is the "best" BALL "ever." But I've never said it's the best thing for the game, or makes the game most interesting, or whatever you're actually trying to say. 0 for 2 there @Jack Watson. Sorry. Yet… you were wrong. They didn't. They hit down. They launched the ball too low, and with too much spin.
    • The bottom line is very simple.  If you are developing your swing or a students is it made better by more or less feedback?  I recommend anyone developing to use the highest spin balls they can find because it gives more feedback. Higher spinning ball is more feedback.  Tour players today would hit straighter with a ball just like a Pinnacle.  Rocks were available back in the day.  No spin isn't what pros want in a ball.  They don't choose no spin because of many reasons. Often players now aim at rough because it's often not what anyone would call rough.  I think it's obvious that I was not making a statistical argument there just pointing out a tendency in the modern game that shows how course setup is weak/favors bomb and gouge brainless golf.  Rough is supposed to be harder to hit from than fairway.  That's also lost on modern gamers for the most part. Joro will agree,  he was there.  A higher spin ball helps separate wheat from chaff.  So many pros agree on these points...You seem to be somewhat alone in your contention that modern golf is the best thing ever... Anyways I have to go so no more time now for this...  I used caps because it's insulting to people to tell them they didn't know what they were doing. Again Best wishes to all for a safe holiday!
    • You can't go back to that, because pros could simply play a 1997 Pinnacle and hit it long and straight. The only thing about the new ball is that they made the 1997 Pinnacle spin more with shorter clubs. So wrap a 1997 Pinnacle in some softer outer layers, and bam, you've accomplished nothing. Balls are better now. So are clubs. So is the understanding that pros have to how important power is in the game. No, it's correct. When players first got launch monitors, the vast majority were hitting down too much, generating too much spin, and effectively hitting ballooning, rising shots. The Frank Nobilo piece, for example, says: So no, it's not arrogant or incorrect. It's perfectly valid. Nobody said anything about gear effect. Yell about it then. Sorry, no. You're simply and provably wrong here. Where do you come up with this bullshit? The rest I've left alone as it's your opinion and that's fine, but don't just spout out shit like it's fact when it's not, please.
    • I know  for myself as a golf fan I want to be able to watch golf and have it entertain me.  There's really only three tournaments anymore I pay attention to Masters British and US Open.  The last couple years the US has been a dud but I keep watching hoping it will once again become the ultimate test. I want to see the best quality golf.  I think that's where this whole discussion of distance comes in.  Nicklaus Snead et all for the most part could swing much faster than they did.  Sometimes they would bash one but not usually.  Hogan did some long drive stuff at times early on and he was puttin the wood to it espescially for his height.  In order to score best these guys played a golf swing that was not maxed out because the ball spun so much that slight misfits were truly bad you had to manage the strike just right at high speed to keep spin down and get the launch right or it would be an embarrassing balloon ballflight.   They were playing the game of skill not the game of maximum speed alone.  Very self disciplined approach.  It kinda makes me mad when I hear younger folks say "part of the reason for the distance now is that players understand launch conditions better" Really?  To me it's preposterous to try to assert that modern players only in the last few years learned launch conditions.  It's also arrogant and incorrect.  Like gear effect also.  Heel low cuts and toe draws were shots people practiced with balata back to Jackie Burke! THE BALATA PLAYERS WERE MASTERS OF SPIN COMPARED TO THE GUYS NOW!  TO SAY THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING IS ABSOLUTELY VERY VERY INSULTING TO THEM AND ANYONE WHO IS CONNECTED WITH THEM!   They were masters because the higher spinning ball gave them much better feedback while developing their swings.  You have to know how to create certain launch conditions to get that balata out there like Norman or Nicklaus or whoever.  Maybe they did not know their numbers on Doppler but they ALL knew who could do it and who couldn't and more I,portent how THEY did it.  Now they are all bashing it because there's no reason not to.  The ball  doesn't spin as much and the clubs are forgiving.  The courses are setup so that being in the 'rough' is better than the fairway. You get brain dead robots like DJ out there hitting miles.  Where's the variation and challenge?  Where are the courses made to challenge the modern technology?  It's not good for the tour to make the game into a distance contest.  They are marketing the thing poorly and results have been showing and will show the next few years as more and more courses close. Golf with a higher spinning ball would be so cool to even watch on tv with shot tracer.  That's what golfers used to aspire to the low launch and correct shape.  They might not hit as far as pros but the shaping that's what's been totally lost today. I think with a game focused on power and distance over self control and skill you get a bore.  With most tour stops it's like watching a Ferrari F1 car racing a guy in a Prius.  (The Prius being the course.) A golfer with the skill of Corey Pavin simply couldn't make it today and that's sad.  Guy was a great competitor striker of the ball.  He was shaping fw wood shots into greens.  You don't see that stuff anymore and really the younger crowd doesn't know what they don't know.   To me the whole game of golf boils down to decisions and self knowledge and control and is made more interesting the more difficult the course gets.   With the modern week to week game with older courses and modern clubs it's basically a free minus six or more every week due to par fives alone for a good touring pro. This is a long rant to forgive me.  I just wish golf were more entertaining now.  It's largely not.  I'd like to see the pros have to face the challenge of a higher spinning ball and takeaway Some for and max volume on drivers and fw clubs.  The reason for this is I want to see what kind of level mankind can reach in this game.  I want to see the best quality.  IMO the way the game is goin is wrong for that.  It's a putting contest now.  They all bash it they all hit greens it's just who gets a hot putter. I wanna make it more challenging and truly separate the wheat from the chaff.  To me that would be more interesting. Or we can just leave things as they are and really never know what a great golfer is truly capable of because the game now really doesn't require that skill anymore.  Heck just carry a driver some short irons and wedges and a putter.   Sorry for the rant but many of us get angry when it's said that modern players have been taught new things by trackman.  Sorry guys,  equal some Nicklaus or Hogan or Knudson et all scores with balata then you can talk.  That's real feedback hit ball watch ball.  Ball no do what you want do something else! Happy Holidays!      
    • One thing I like about our semi-private course is that everyone is very friendly and welcoming. Our seniors group is fun to play with, although they sometimes forget that I'm one of the unretired! and have to go to work most days. The course is a Nicklaus design with lots of challenging holes. The drawback is that the developer envisioned Winged Foot Way Out West, sporting a private-equity membership with everyone living in $400,000 homes. Thus, he contracted for an extremely difficult course with lots of bunkers. Legend has it that Nicklaus cautioned the developer against going overboard on the difficulty of holes, and the complexity of the bunkering (as in high maintenance costs). Well, much less $$ showed up than was forecast, and the developer was forced to sell. Fast forward, the greens crew has had a rough job in recent years trying to keep the bunkers in repair. A few pits have been removed as they settled out oddly, or ended up permanently flooded.  But, those remaining really keep the greens crew busy. We just don't have a Winged Foot maintenance budget. One other drawback: the driving range is at the top of a sloping hill, so it's a bit had to determine your true club carries because you're hitting down hill. Overall, I really like the course, the crew and the members.
  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. DeadMan
      DeadMan
      (31 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon

×

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.