The Pace of Play Factor

[cda77]

I have a semi-related question.  Would you be willing to pay a premium green fee to guarantee a round in a specified amount of time?

Is there a market for a course to raise fees say 50% but guarantee 4 hour rounds or your money back, something along those lines?

[Lihu]

I have a semi-related question.  Would you be willing to pay a premium green fee to guarantee a round in a specified amount of time? Is there a market for a course to raise fees say 50% but guarantee 4 hour rounds or your money back, something along those lines?

If you go anywhere from 20 minutes to a couple hours before the twilight rates take effect, you can get in a much faster round. You pay more, but can get in and out really fast.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by cda77

I have a semi-related question.  Would you be willing to pay a premium green fee to guarantee a round in a specified amount of time?

Is there a market for a course to raise fees say 50% but guarantee 4 hour rounds or your money back, something along those lines?

I would and I do, it's called a private club.  As for your specific idea, I can't see clubs doing it because there's too much risk on their side.  I'd expect they would more likely implement something where the first group to exceed 4 hours would get charged double or something along those lines.

[bplewis24]

I voted incorrectly for 1 instead of 4 (I was thinking weekly, not monthly).

Full disclosure here:

I play sometimes 2 rounds per week.  Doesn't matter whether it's fast or slow.  I find cheap rates on golfnow and go to town.  However, pace of play along with other issues, has me considering joining a private country club.  Several of them in the area have great rates for guys under 40 years old, and I've been to three different clubs to check them out.  I'm only guessing, but I believe I would possibly play 2-4 rounds per week (including 9 hole outings as rounds) if I joined a CC and knew that pace of play wouldn't be a huge issue.  As it stands right now, I would rather go to the driving range than play a round of 9 most of the time because I know I have to block 2.5 hours of my day off, and that either means eating dinner too early or too late, neither of which I want to do.

[cda77]

Even joining a private club doesn't solve the problem 100% of the time, can you get a 4 hour round on a Sunday afternoon?

I disagree that it would be a risk for the course, I think it would make it easier for the course to enforce pace of play and also attract golfers that know what to expect and willing to pay extra for the benefit.  We charge a premium here to guarantee a four hour round.  You must keep pace, you get one warning then you must leave the course.  Something along those lines.  The thing is, IMO, you would fill the course with people who know how to play ready golf and would eliminate the more recreational golfer.

Although, I think it would only work in a metro market where there are a lot of course choices.  I think a course could set themselves apart and attract a lot of people who want four hour rounds.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by cda77

Even joining a private club doesn't solve the problem 100% of the time, can you get a 4 hour round on a Sunday afternoon?

It seems like it's possible.  The peak hours appear to be from 7-10AM on Thursday through Sunday.  I would play at those times pretty rarely.  I'll gladly go off at 12PM when it's too hot for everybody else.  But on public courses, there are usually still plenty of people out at those times, because the rates are cheaper.

[cda77]

I guess we all have different experiences at our various clubs.

[clearwaterms]

Originally Posted by cda77

I have a semi-related question.  Would you be willing to pay a premium green fee to guarantee a round in a specified amount of time?

Is there a market for a course to raise fees say 50% but guarantee 4 hour rounds or your money back, something along those lines?

I think the idea is solid, but thinking about it a little more, it has some problems.

I am going to use the Chicagoland area as my example.

Chicago has LOTS of golf courses to choose from.  A weekend round typically costs around $60 with a cart.  To pay 50% more ($30) would be extreme and likely a lot of people wouldn't pay it.  If you don't enforce it for everybody (IE give them the option) it would diminish the value of the pace of play.

Alot of the courses in this area sell permanent times in the mornings (prior to 9AM) on Saturday and Sunday.  These players typically are more serious golfers, and know the course so they play in 4 hours or less.    I think a course could charge a small premium for the next hour or so, and sell them as "express play"  make the time to tee off more like 9 minutes instead of 7.  This would reduce the number of tee times by approx. 25%.  I would pay the 25% surcharge.  I think if it is explained that these rounds are intended for experienced golfers ready to play ready golf and complete a round in 4 hours or less, and golfers unable to complete it in 4 hours will be asked to play it at a further forward tee box, skip holes, or worse case scenario, receive a pro-rated refund equal to the cost of a normal round (IE, if you play you run the risk of losing the 25% if you can't keep up)

With enforcements in place, and a clear explanation of the reason for the 25% increase.  I would even go so far as to charge an extra 33% and the remaining amount can go to the cost of putting an extra ranger to keep an eye on these tee times.  2 hours worth of tee times at 9 minutes apart, would yield approx. 53 golfers.  if the cost of the round is $50, that would mean the course would have an additional $200 to pay a ranger for 4 hours to follow these tee times and enforce pace of play.  He/She would be responsible for monitoring only 12~13 tee times.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I might have not totally understood the questions since if I go as a single I am still a the mercy of the 4ball ahead of me. But if I could feel confident that I could do 2.5 hrs as a single - or more specifically 1.25 hr for nine holes - I would definitely play more nines.  That would be a dream come true.  I'd get at least 2 of those in during the week and maybe even throw one in on the weekend.  I would like the 2 players in 3 hours as well.  The 4 in 4 isn't far off from what I can do now.

[dave s]

I currently play about as much as I can play in a week or month right now.  Count me in the camp that feels pace of play is NOT a factor in how much I play or enjoy the game.  Cases in point:

1. On Sunday afternoons my golf partner is my wife.  We tee off between noon and 1pm each Sunday afternoon.  The LONGEST round we've played this year has been 4 hours.  We usually get around 18 with people in front and behind us in 3:30 to 3:45.  That's not slow on my watch.

2.  My league is 4-somes, obviously.  We have a league in front of us, most of them walk.  We STILL get around in 2:30 on a jam-packed 9 each Thursday.  This is to be expected, so it really doesn't affect me one way or the other.

3.  Play with friends sometimes on Fridays (when we can all play hookie from work) or the occasional Saturday before noon.  Played last Friday (day after Jul 4 holiday) in a 3-some.  It rained from holes 2-18.  We STILL got around the course at 3:45 in horrendous conditions with everything from a heavy mist to medium rain at times.

Honestly, I don't know where most of you play where pace of play is so slow.  Or, is it that any round over 3 hours is considered slow play?  If so, the only thing I can suggest is 6:38 on a Saturday or Sunday where you are assured of being  first off.

Lastly, the most unenjoyable people for me to play with are 'speed-golfers' who treat golf like it's a task that must be completed in a certain period of time or they have to be home by a certain time or they turn into pumpkins ... or have issues with the wife for playing golf in general.

For me, golf is supposed to be fun, relaxing and enjoyable.  Granted, standing in the fairway waiting 10 minutes to hit a shot is NOT enjoyable for anyone.  Rarely is this my experience playing anywhere in NE Ohio or anywhere else for that matter.

dave

[RickK]

I play a lot of golf during daylight savings time of year.  This year is down a bunch because I have had several foot surgeries.  But, in past years, I play 20+ rounds in June, July, and August every year.  I have played enough golf at most of the courses near me and I know what pace of play generally is going to be.  I just avoid the slow courses.

Pace of play does not dictate how many rounds I play, only impacts the courses I will play.

[clearwaterms]

Originally Posted by dave s

I currently play about as much as I can play in a week or month right now.  Count me in the camp that feels pace of play is NOT a factor in how much I play or enjoy the game.  Cases in point:

1. On Sunday afternoons my golf partner is my wife.  We tee off between noon and 1pm each Sunday afternoon.  The LONGEST round we've played this year has been 4 hours.  We usually get around 18 with people in front and behind us in 3:30 to 3:45.  That's not slow on my watch.

2.  My league is 4-somes, obviously.  We have a league in front of us, most of them walk.  We STILL get around in 2:30 on a jam-packed 9 each Thursday.  This is to be expected, so it really doesn't affect me one way or the other.

3.  Play with friends sometimes on Fridays (when we can all play hookie from work) or the occasional Saturday before noon.  Played last Friday (day after Jul 4 holiday) in a 3-some.  It rained from holes 2-18.  We STILL got around the course at 3:45 in horrendous conditions with everything from a heavy mist to medium rain at times.

Honestly, I don't know where most of you play where pace of play is so slow.  Or, is it that any round over 3 hours is considered slow play?  If so, the only thing I can suggest is 6:38 on a Saturday or Sunday where you are assured of being  first off.

Lastly, the most unenjoyable people for me to play with are 'speed-golfers' who treat golf like it's a task that must be completed in a certain period of time or they have to be home by a certain time or they turn into pumpkins ... or have issues with the wife for playing golf in general.

For me, golf is supposed to be fun, relaxing and enjoyable.  Granted, standing in the fairway waiting 10 minutes to hit a shot is NOT enjoyable for anyone.  Rarely is this my experience playing anywhere in NE Ohio or anywhere else for that matter.

dave

Dave,

Come out to Chicago and play any reasonably priced golf course on a Friday afternoon, Saturday or Sunday with tee times between 10AM and 1PM.

By reasonably priced, I mean anything under $60 a round with a cart.  The golf course starters cram people onto the first hole, so they end up have people play that as soon as the first group has hit approach shots to the green, the next group should be on the tee box and tee'ing the ball up.  Combine this with golfers that tee off at inappropriate tee boxes, and players who don't play ready golf, you can end up with a very slow round of golf.

Just in the last 2 days, I had 2 instances where my round was slowed down because the group in front of me was inconsiderate.  In the first example, I was playing as a single, on my home course.  I know the course well, manage my misses and with nobody in front of me, i can walk the course in 1:15~1:30.  The group in front of me was 3 older gentlemen who were insistent that that they not pass a players ball.  So on a 40 yard wide fairway, you have one guy about 170 yards from the tee box in the left rough, one around 210 in the middle, and a 3rd around 215 on the right.  The course is wide enough, that the two players who hit the 200+ yard tee shots could have easily walked down the right hand side, and been in little to no danger from the golfer on the left.  This would allow the golfer on the left to hit his second shot, then the 2nd golfer to immediately walk to his ball, hit his shot, and while he was hitting his shot, the 3rd golfer could already have a club in hand and be ready to execute when it was his turn.  Instead, the 3 walked to the first ball, waited, then the 3 walked to the second ball, waited, then they all walked to the 3rd ball, etc.

The second instance, was a 4 some of golfers that probably shot 50+ on a par 32 course.  The course is a short par 32, but very target oriented golf.  The 4 some could not get the ball air born on a regular basis, and clearly were not very good.  As a result of playing the back tee boxes, they played the hole slower than the group in front of them.

Neither of these groups were malicious in their intent.  The first scenario falls on the ranger to explain the concept of ready golf.  The second it falls on the starter to explain to golfers that the back most tee box is reserved for golfers who are of a predetermined ability.  If you can't play bogey golf or better, play closer to the green.

These issues get compounded on weekends.