Match Play Lost Ball?

[MEfree]

Are there slightly different scenarios that would change your answer from a Yes/No to the opposite?  If you answered "It depends" what would be the deciding factor(s)?

[Fourputt]

You know what my answer is.  It's a match, so the rules apply.  If is was an informal match during a casual round, I might be flexible.  If it's a club match, then no way.  That would subject both of us to disqualification.

[David in FL]

Huh?

Why would I do something that would subject me to disqualification?

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Huh?

Why would I do something that would subject me to disqualification?

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You know what my answer is.  It's a match, so the rules apply.  If is was an informal match during a casual round, I might be flexible.  If it's a club match, then no way.  That would subject both of us to disqualification.

Fourputt is right- I know what you two think and there are certainly others, especially on this forum, who will agree with you.  I like to follow the rules also, but you guys are out of touch with reality if you think no golfers would consider letting their opponent drop one hitting 4.  In fact, I think in some clubs not allowing this in the scenario described would be considered poor sportsmanship.

[Motown88]

I agree with Fourputt...If it's a casual match then I'd probably be ok with the drop, but if it's an actual match then no way.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by MEfree

In fact, I think in some clubs not allowing this in the scenario described would be considered poor sportsmanship.

I've never, not once in over 40, had someone ask me to waive a rule during an actual, sanctioned tournament.  I won't argue your own experience, but it's 180 degrees out from mine.

As always, casual rounds amongst buddies may result in a different response.

[TJBam]

This obviously depends, like every rules/etiquette question on this forum, on context.

Tournament answer: And relieve him of the pressure of hitting 3 off the tee box and maybe losing that one too?  Chance of  DQ?  He will be making the walk back to the tee box and I'll be spotting from the left side of the fairway to help him best I can. Chance of marshal/rules/another player seeing our group just dropping down golf balls all over the place?  No way.  Scoff at the thought of it and tell him I'll be right here and I'll keep an eye on his tee shot, good luck.  But then again I don't play official league tournaments.

Casual answer: Sure drop 3 right here by mine and hit 4.  If I hit the green on my second shot though I would then expect for my competitor to pick up and take his medicine.

[Golfingdad]

Casual match - yes.

Sanctioned tournament - no freaking way.

[bkuehn1952]

In an organized tournament I would be shocked if someone made that proposition.  Either concede the hole or walk back to the tee, don't ask your opponent to mangle the Rules.

Anything is negotiable in a private match.

[adam e]

I echo a lot of the comments about being in a tourney == "no" and casual match == "yes".    I've played with a number of people who are pretty casual with rules overall, but adhere strictly for tournament play.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by adam e

I echo a lot of the comments about being in a tourney == "no" and casual match == "yes".    I've played with a number of people who are pretty casual with rules overall, but adhere strictly for tournament play.

Why wouldn't you follow the rules for a "casual MATCH" against a player in your home club but insist on following them in a tournament match against the same opponent?  AKA, why have a different set of rules for betting matches vs tournament matches?

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Why wouldn't you follow the rules for a "casual MATCH" against a player in your home club but insist on following them in a tournament match against the same opponent?  AKA, why have a different set of rules for betting matches vs tournament matches?

Casual match:  I advocate assuming that he can walk back to the tee and make a similar drive.  He lays 3 where his original drive wouldve been.  He is hitting 4.  (Pace of play.)

And so it begins...

[barbm12thtee]

If its match play, which I've never played, I don't know if I'd be DQ'd for allowing this, so he goes back to tee or concedes the hole. In stroke play if, its a tournament or competition with others involved he goes back to the tee. If its a casual round between the two of us I'd let him drop with lost ball penalty, hitting four.

[RickK]

If it is just my normal bunch of guys and not an official tournament, I probably would not care.  But, if it really is a tournament, I'm not waving the rules for anyone.  Subject to DQ if I do.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by barbm12thtee

If its match play, which I've never played, I don't know if I'd be DQ'd for allowing this, so he goes back to tee or concedes the hole. In stroke play if, its a tournament or competition with others involved he goes back to the tee. If its a casual round between the two of us I'd let him drop with lost ball penalty, hitting four.

To be clear, I am NOT talking about a STROKE PLAY tournament- in the case of stroke play, it is obvious to me that everyone has to play by the same set of rules for the sake of fairness- unless clearly posted before the tournament, the obvious choice is USGA rules.

In match play, when only two players are involved, I am more inclined to allow them to determine the rules they play by so long as one competitor doesn't bully, manipulate, shame, etc the other guy into playing by his set of rules.  If two MATCH PLAY opponents happily agree to a modification for the sake of expediency, I have no issues with it.  i.e. Playing as a twosome with no caddies, both are on the green 90-100 feet from the hole...A says to B, let's just leave the flag in and not call a penalty if one of us hits it.  B says good idea.  They complete the hole having waived this rule...I don't see why they should both be disqualified if they happened to mention this to someone in the bar after the match who reports it to the committee.

[barbm12thtee]

To be clear, I am NOT talking about a STROKE PLAY tournament- in the case of stroke play, it is obvious to me that everyone has to play by the same set of rules for the sake of fairness- unless clearly posted before the tournament, the obvious choice is USGA rules. In match play, when only two players are involved, I am more inclined to allow them to determine the rules they play by so long as one competitor doesn't bully, manipulate, shame, etc the other guy into playing by his set of rules.  If two MATCH PLAY opponents happily agree to a modification for the sake of expediency, I have no issues with it.  i.e. Playing as a twosome with no caddies, both are on the green 90-100 feet from the hole...A says to B, let's just leave the flag in and not call a penalty if one of us hits it.  B says good idea.  They complete the hole having waived this rule...I don't see why they should both be disqualified if they happened to mention this to someone in the bar after the match who reports it to the committee.

[Motown88]

The rules are designed for a reason. I understand a need to modify the rule as discussed in the OP. It is a pace of play issue and in my opinion can/should be waived in a casual round where the likely outcome will be same for that hole. If it was stroke play that would be different.

However, leaving the pin in from 90-100 feet is just laziness in my opinion. Are you both putting at the same time? Why can't one of you walk the 20 seconds to the hole and pull the pin or tend it while the other putts? There will be no unduly delay for pulling the pin. Leaving it in could pose an advantage to you (and I suppose a disadvantage). I'm sorry but if you hit an unattended pin on the putting green you should be adding 2 strokes to your score.

[geauxforbroke]

I was playing in a city match play event a few years ago against a guy that essentially did this. The first hole has OB left along the driving range, and he hit his right down the OB line. I suggested he hit a provisional, but he said "No I saw it land in bounds, I'm ok." We get up there, and I'm away, and I stuff it to about 3 feet. His drive has rolled about 2 feet out of bounds. Since it was the first tee and there were people gathered around it waiting for the next group to tee off, he asked if he could just drop it back in bounds and take a penalty. I told him that he would have to re-tee or concede the hole. Since I had a 3 footer for birdie and he would have been hitting 3 from the tee, he conceded. He may have been the worst person I've ever played with, as far as etiquette goes. Several times he asked me if 2-3 footers were "good". Finally I told him that nothing was good unless I specifically said it was.

As a sidebar, I ended up winning the match 8 and 7. I was a little disappointed because I was 4 under and wanted to see what kind of score I could put up.