My Swing (Abu3baid)

[billchao]

I see what you are saying about the wiffle ball flight, but at the very least I know for sure the spin being put on the ball... That really is what is very important to me!

Well that's part of what I'm trying to say, you can't trust the spin because the flight of the ball is more easily blown off course than a standard golf ball. I can hit a wiffle ball up and down my hard and consistently draw it in one direction and fade it in the other, based on the crosswind.

What I just don't get though, is why is it that I have to pay so much attention to this issue with my driver, when I'm not even thinking about it nor considering it with my other clubs, and now I am hitting all my clubs the best I have ever hit them with piercing ball flight with a very slight almost non existent draw! that goes straight!

Could it be because I am over swinging because I feel like I want to blast the ball?  Although, I try to blast the ball with the 3H which I hit nice as well?  I will just keep working on my full shoulder turn, but should my shoulder be pointing at the ball or just staying on the same plane that I am at address?

I think it may be related to angle of attack. I don't want to get too technical, but basically, if you hit the ball on the upswing of your swing arc (as in a driver), you're path is heading to the left. When you hit the ball on the downswing of your swing arc (as in your irons), you're path is heading to the right. If you combine an out to in club path with hitting up on the ball with your driver, you are hitting pulls and fades/slices all day. I think your irons are hitting straight/with a slight draw because you just might be hitting down on them steeply enough to counter the inward club path. Here's an informative thread if you want to learn more about that: http://thesandtrap.com/t/44307/hitting-up-or-down-with-the-driver-in-an-inline-pattern

[mvmac]

I think it may be related to angle of attack. I don't want to get too technical, but basically, if you hit the ball on the upswing of your swing arc (as in a driver), you're path is heading to the left. When you hit the ball on the downswing of your swing arc (as in your irons), you're path is heading to the right. If you combine an out to in club path with hitting up on the ball with your driver, you are hitting pulls and fades/slices all day. I think your irons are hitting straight/with a slight draw because you just might be hitting down on them steeply enough to counter the inward club path. Here's an informative thread if you want to learn more about that: http://thesandtrap.com/t/44307/hitting-up-or-down-with-the-driver-in-an-inline-pattern

Yes the angle of attack is factored in with the overall path number and you can have a positive aoa with have a right ward path.  If I had to guess I would agree with what you have to say, that the down is helping Abu3baid hit his irons straight.   With his driver I would imagine the club is swinging too much down and across and might even have some glancing blow/gear effect issues.

[Abu3baid]

Well that's part of what I'm trying to say, you can't trust the spin because the flight of the ball is more easily blown off course than a standard golf ball. I can hit a wiffle ball up and down my hard and consistently draw it in one direction and fade it in the other, based on the crosswind.

I think it may be related to angle of attack. I don't want to get too technical, but basically, if you hit the ball on the upswing of your swing arc (as in a driver), you're path is heading to the left. When you hit the ball on the downswing of your swing arc (as in your irons), you're path is heading to the right. If you combine an out to in club path with hitting up on the ball with your driver, you are hitting pulls and fades/slices all day. I think your irons are hitting straight/with a slight draw because you just might be hitting down on them steeply enough to counter the inward club path. Here's an informative thread if you want to learn more about that: http://thesandtrap.com/t/44307/hitting-up-or-down-with-the-driver-in-an-inline-pattern

Yes the angle of attack is factored in with the overall path number and you can have a positive aoa with have a right ward path.  If I had to guess I would agree with what you have to say, that the down is helping Abu3baid hit his irons straight.   With his driver I would imagine the club is swinging too much down and across and might even have some glancing blow/gear effect issues.

Thanks to the both of you for this useful information.  I understand the technical part that you have so kindly explained, but if that is the case then I don't want to change really anything about my irons or hybrids at this point.  I mean I have never been able to hit my five iron like I'm hitting it now (solid and straight about 180-185 carry), so I think tinkering with my swing no would be suicide (do you agree?)

Couldn't it be that I am just coming around my body too fast and not going forward enough?  I mean it is very possible that my swing is in to out or even in to in right now with all my clubs, but the real difference is that when I come down with the iron like you mentioned I hit the ball on the way down and thus the draw spin, but when I hit up with the driver I am coming across the ball on the way up as I have already finished the in-in swing and hitting it around my body (if that makes sense, it does to me while I'm thinking about it now)...  I just don't feel like I'm swinging out to in at all, nor is the physics aspect of it adding up as to how can I counter an out-in swing path by coming in too steeply?  if anything that would just hit popups that slice in my mind.

The other thing is that when I was getting fitted for my driver, my angle of attack on it was always too low according to the fitting guy at (dicks sporting) basically he measured me between 8 - 9* on average and he kept mentioning that I needed to be more around 13 which maybe I'm just not capable of I don't know..

Anyway, I am going to go ahead and work on turning my shoulders and keeping my angle with my spine on the take away and through the swing and I hope to see better results soon..

I just want to say that I really appreciate all the input from the both of you, definitely opened my eyes to some interesting things.. I am going to go ahead and read up what I can on angle of attack and ways to manage and control that!

Cheers

[mvmac]

Couldn't it be that I am just coming around my body too fast and not going forward enough?  I mean it is very possible that my swing is in to out or even in to in right now with all my clubs, but the real difference is that when I come down with the iron like you mentioned I hit the ball on the way down and thus the draw spin, but when I hit up with the driver I am coming across the ball on the way up as I have already finished the in-in swing and hitting it around my body (if that makes sense, it does to me while I'm thinking about it now)...  I just don't feel like I'm swinging out to in at all, nor is the physics aspect of it adding up as to how can I counter an out-in swing path by coming in too steeply?  if anything that would just hit popups that slice in my mind.

Looks to me that the club is moving down and across.  Shaft is pointing inside the ball in the left pic and the hand exit is low in the right pic.  So even thought you hit down with the driver you can still have an overall path left.  Angle of attack is just part of the resultant path equation.

Compared to a player that draws the driver with a positive angle of attack

So how do you change the picture?  Recommend checking out these videos

[Abu3baid]

Thank you very much, I will work on those exercises and I hope to see an improvement soon.

My question is: should I be looking for the same kind of thing with my irons and will this make me hit them better as well?  Or am I going to be looking at one type of swing with my driver and another with my iron?

Also, my other question is that my old R5 TM driver was a reg flex and I am able to hit it pretty good and straight... when I moved to the TM R1 with a stiff flex, because the fitting guy said that with my swing speed I should use a stiff not reg flex did this play a role in the ball flight?  I am thinking that maybe because of the reg flex when I was coming down on the ball because of the bend in the shaft I would still end up hitting up on the ball?  Just a theory, not sure if it stands under scrutiny!

[Abu3baid]

I have been trying to figure out why the difference in consistency between my irons and driver and I think that one of my issues might be setting up too bent over with my driver.  I put the below together to show the difference.  With a 7* difference in spine angle between setup and impact I think I am just setting my self up for failure.  On the other hand I am more consistent with my irons with only a 2* change between setup and impact. I hope if I can lower the difference and make sure that when I am coming down the butt of the club is pointing at the ball, this will help me hit the ball straight!

[mvmac]

I have been trying to figure out why the difference in consistency between my irons and driver and I think that one of my issues might be setting up too bent over with my driver.  I put the below together to show the difference.  With a 7* difference in spine angle between setup and impact I think I am just setting my self up for failure.  On the other hand I am more consistent with my irons with only a 2* change between setup and impact. I hope if I can lower the difference and make sure that when I am coming down the butt of the club is pointing at the ball, this will help me hit the ball straight!

One thing that I've been seeing a lot with swings on here recently and it's something you can do on your irons and driver that I think will help.  Your upper back is too straight, eyes are oriented too higher at address.  Since your eyes are too high at address your head has to go down on the backswing and you have to compensate from there.

Check out this thread http://thesandtrap.com/t/56069/good-golf-posture

Boo Weekley on the right

[Abu3baid]

One thing that I've been seeing a lot with swings on here recently and it's something you can do on your irons and driver that I think will help.  Your upper back is too straight, eyes are oriented too higher at address.  Since your eyes are too high at address your head has to go down on the backswing and you have to compensate from there.

Check out this thread http://thesandtrap.com/t/56069/good-golf-posture

Boo Weekley on the right

Thank you very much for that..  I took a look at my iron swing and I think I am probably doing that much better and that is why I am more consistent with my irons..  I practiced on the feeling of making sure that I am looking directly at the ball instead of having my eye balls looking down at it.  2 things I am going to do though, the first is I am thinking of bringing my feet closer together as I noticed that they just look like they are miles apart and the second is looking at the ball while also making sure that my spine angle at address is closer to 30-32* instead of the 38* I am at now.. I mean there is now way that my spine angle with a driver is more bent than with an iron!!  Thanks!

[Abu3baid]

I am looking more at the ball now at set up. I do have to admit the one thing that has helped me transform my game the most has been the swing thought of feeling slight pressure in my right armpit on my take away, on a couple of swings yesterday I even had the thought of take away with body not arms.. Anyway, I am wondering because my putting has been off, after the round I worked on feeling that same pressure in my right armpit while i was putting and I was amazed at how consistent I was taking it back on the same plane and through with what ever speed I wanted.. Anyone know if its ok to feel that pressure or should my right arm come back without it while putting, or does it not matter?

[Abu3baid]

I am looking more at the ball now at set up. I do have to admit the one thing that has helped me transform my game the most has been the swing thought of feeling slight pressure in my right armpit on my take away, on a couple of swings yesterday I even had the thought of take away with body not arms.. Anyway, I am wondering because my putting has been off, after the round I worked on feeling that same pressure in my right armpit while i was putting and I was amazed at how consistent I was taking it back on the same plane and through with what ever speed I wanted.. Anyone know if its ok to feel that pressure or should my right arm come back without it while putting, or does it not matter?

I tried looking it up as much as I could, but I couldn't really find much on the subject.  Does hitting most of my putts on the high part of the putter say anything?  Should I be looking to center it even more, or should I just move on?

[iacas]

High usually indicates that the shaft is leaning forward and you have negative loft. I prefer to see about 1° loft with 2-3° angle of attack (upwards) with the putter.

Note the word "usually." But it's tough to hit that high on the face with positive loft and a positive AoA.

[saevel25]

High usually indicates that the shaft is leaning forward and you have negative loft. I prefer to see about 1° loft with 2-3° angle of attack (upwards) with the putter.

Note the word "usually." But it's tough to hit that high on the face with positive loft and a positive AoA.

@iacas

So, do good putters hit the ball slightly lower on the putter face, or in the middle?

[iacas]

@iacas

So, do good putters hit the ball slightly lower on the putter face, or in the middle?

Typically near the middle to ever so slightly low. Not noticeably low of center.

[Abu3baid]

I am looking more at the ball now at set up. I do have to admit the one thing that has helped me transform my game the most has been the swing thought of feeling slight pressure in my right armpit on my take away, on a couple of swings yesterday I even had the thought of take away with body not arms.. Anyway, I am wondering because my putting has been off, after the round I worked on feeling that same pressure in my right armpit while i was putting and I was amazed at how consistent I was taking it back on the same plane and through with what ever speed I wanted.. Anyone know if its ok to feel that pressure or should my right arm come back without it while putting, or does it not matter?

Played again today and I have to say that with feeling that pressure in my right arm pit while I'm putting has really helped me a lot, even sunk a 10f birdie while coming very close on pretty much all of my others.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that I finally assigned myself an official handicap index of 14; maybe I am not that good or maybe I am even better, I know that I can't go by the score on the course I am currently playing (Arizona Golf Resort - Riyadh), but I think playing 9 holes at 4 over is still something to give me hope that when I play a real course that I can probably get away with being a 14 HC.. right?

Next up is another swing update to see how far I have really come along, because my ball striking with my 3H & my irons has been really good..  My only problem right now is obviously my Driver, which I don't even pull out on the short course and the fact that I'm not hitting close to the pin, I'm still leaving more than 15 feet usually and 2 putting!

[Ernest Jones]

Why can't you use your actual scores to determine handicap? I use an online calculator to get my handicap, there's lots of free ones. The one I use is sandbagger.ca. I believe a 14 means you should be scoring fairly often in the low 90s and high 80's mixed with occasional blow up rounds.

[Abu3baid]

Well to assign a real handicap i need to be playing a 71-72 par course IMOP of course.. However, ball doesn't discriminate according to the course, so I am happy to say that I shout a 6 over 74 on a par 68 course.. Yes a lot of the par fours are about 275 - 290 yards, but I don't care.. I also had 4 birdies which really make me feel good. Only 3 DB, so I guess that leaves me with 4 bogies and 8 pars.. The thing is, at lease now i am having fun even though I'm not shooting scratch.. Yes, I gave up too many shots today, but no triples.. Golf is fun when you are striking well and sinking putts Note: I am still keeping the driver in bag and look forward to bringing it to the party!

[Abu3baid]

Was looking at my stats from when I first came to KSA and really started playing golf.  Below is a comparison of my scores in Feb 2013 & this past month Nov 2013.

I know it says Oct 2013, but it should say Nov 2013.  Anyway, the comparison is striking to say the least and like I mentioned before golf is finally more fun.  I bet it will be a lot more fun if I start scoring 34's or below though!

I know where I loose my shots while I'm playing..  Errant Iron shots here and there & the fact I am not getting it close enough to the hole to give my self good birdie shots!  I am sure improving from Feb to Now was the easy part, now bringing down the 4.43 average shots over par will be the more difficult part!

[billchao]

Was looking at my stats from when I first came to KSA and really started playing golf.  Below is a comparison of my scores in Feb 2013 & this past month Nov 2013.

I know it says Oct 2013, but it should say Nov 2013.  Anyway, the comparison is striking to say the least and like I mentioned before golf is finally more fun.  I bet it will be a lot more fun if I start scoring 34's or below though!

I know where I loose my shots while I'm playing..  Errant Iron shots here and there & the fact I am not getting it close enough to the hole to give my self good birdie shots!  I am sure improving from Feb to Now was the easy part, now bringing down the 4.43 average shots over par will be the more difficult part!

Eight strokes in one season? Nice! Keep it up, man!