Scrambles- Do you assume winners cheat?

[phan52]

Played in a scramble last Monday with a 4, 8, 10 (me), and a 16. We went -11 with no difficulty, never coming close to a bogey. Didn't finish anywhere near the money, and the winners were all groups with multiple single digit handicappers. Good players almost always win a scramble, and nobody doubted the scores.

[MEfree]

Can't say I've ever been to a scramble where it would be worthwhile to cheat any more than is allowed. Most are fundraising events and the entire purpose of things like buying mulligans is to support the cause not screw someone out of a prize. I spend more money with entry fees drinking than I ever get back in lame prizes. Not that I would turn down another golf shirt. The only tournaments with a decent purse I've seen are typically private club events. The top prize for the member guest shootout at my parents club is 20k. The only thing I try to win in a scramble is longest drive and closest to the hole.

This was a very low $ event- we got a $25 gift card each for winning- that was less than 1 round of beers when we finished.  It was not a fund raiser, but still very little incentive to cheat.  For the 4 of use, the real incentive was to be able to play a really nice course we can't normally get on.

Here are a few images-

https://www.google.com/search?q=red+sky+ranch+golf+pictures&tbm;=isch&tbo;=u&source;=univ&sa;=X&ei;=_PBSUqS6N8ONygG_iYDgCQ&ved;=0CCkQsAQ&biw;=1792&bih;=921&dpr;=1

[Dave2512]

I played there last summer, we played the Norman course.

[TN94z]

Can't say I've ever been to a scramble where it would be worthwhile to cheat any more than is allowed. Most are fundraising events and the entire purpose of things like buying mulligans is to support the cause not screw someone out of a prize. I spend more money with entry fees drinking than I ever get back in lame prizes. Not that I would turn down another golf shirt. The only tournaments with a decent purse I've seen are typically private club events. The top prize for the member guest shootout at my parents club is 20k. The only thing I try to win in a scramble is longest drive and closest to the hole.

Depends on how they are set up. We have one scramble in my area that includes a Calcutta. The best teams bring some good money and there is a good purse to the winners as well (especially if they bought their own team).  It's for charity too, but when you add in the Calcutta with auctions and all that....the pot can get up pretty high. And it's open to anyone that wants to register

[Harmonious]

Depends on how they are set up. We have one scramble in my area that includes a Calcutta. The best teams bring some good money and there is a good purse to the winners as well (especially if they bought their own team).  It's for charity too, but when you add in the Calcutta with auctions and all that....the pot can get up pretty high. And it's open to anyone that wants to register

Why anyone would bet their own money in a scramble is beyond me, unless there are two scramble teams on each hole to mark each other's score. I could see it working for a two-man scramble, but not for a four-man.

[TN94z]

Why anyone would bet their own money in a scramble is beyond me, unless there are two scramble teams on each hole to mark each other's score. I could see it working for a two-man scramble, but not for a four-man.

There are 2 teams of 4 on each hole. But again, the winning teams are going to shoot in the 50s and low 60s and everyone pretty much knows the skill levels of these teams.

Why bet their own money?  Because you can buy your team for maybe 200-300 dollars and if you win you could get up to 1500-2000 if the pot is big enough.  The teams that are going to win this prize don't cheat.  That and a % goes to the charity.  The guys that are buying the winning teams don't have money worries.

[misty_mountainhop]

I'm a cynic so absolutely, I assume there's a lot of cheating going on. It's magic pencil heaven.

[MS256]

Not necessarily and especially not at -5 through 7 holes...No red flags there for me.

Usually around here the winning score in the charity scrambles is between -18 and -20 and all of them I have been in (which isn't many) sold mulligans. Usually I know the players on the winning team and they are usually very good golfers. I've never had a reason to think they couldn't shoot -20 with mulligans.

The best a team I've been on has ever done was -17 and it wasn't good enough to even place, but nobody on our team could match up with the players on any of the teams that finished ahead of us.

I have heard of "winning teams" that I feel pretty confident couldn't even come close to the score they supposedly shot, because I've seen them play, but I wasn't involved in the tournament.

I've tried to talk people getting a charity scramble together to make it 2 man teams but nobody around here seems to want to do that. I like those better because another team keeps your score and you keep theirs.

[rkim291968]

I've never played a competition/tournament round, including scramble.  I'd like to do it one day and am about to start establishing an official handicap.   But every time I see a thread like this (and there have been many), I completely lose interest to tournament play.  The complexity of golf rules, and my inability to memorize and apply to my playing would be another reason.  Given my sense of self righteousness, if I see cheating in golf tournament I am in, it'd push me away from golf (and lose more faith in humanity ).   I sure hope golf tournaments are not like all these threads make them out to be.

[MS256]

I've never played a competition/tournament round, including scramble.  I'd like to do it one day and am about to start establishing an official handicap.   But every time I see a thread like this (and there have been many), I completely lose interest to tournament play.  The complexity of golf rules, and my inability to memorize and apply to my playing would be another reason.  Given my sense of self righteousness, if I see cheating in golf tournament I am in, it'd push me away from golf (and lose more faith in humanity ).   I sure hope golf tournaments are not like all these threads make them out to be.

To call charity scrambles "golf tournaments" might be stretching it.

If I play in one it is only because I wanted to contribute to the charity and have a little fun. I don't expect to win and if I did I would likely donate my winnings to the charity anyway.

[Harmonious]

I've never played a competition/tournament round, including scramble.  I'd like to do it one day and am about to start establishing an official handicap.   But every time I see a thread like this (and there have been many), I completely lose interest to tournament play.  The complexity of golf rules, and my inability to memorize and apply to my playing would be another reason.  Given my sense of self righteousness, if I see cheating in golf tournament I am in, it'd push me away from golf (and lose more faith in humanity ).   I sure hope golf tournaments are not like all these threads make them out to be.

Don't confuse scrambles with real tournament play.  They are two completely different animals. In my experience, scrambles are just for fun and the scores don't really matter, whereas tournaments are more serious events, played by people who are serious about their game.  Even if they are 20 handicappers, they play by the rules and make sure that others do as well. I have not personally witnessed actual cheating in any tournaments I have played in, which included state, municipal and club competitions.

[Mr. Desmond]

Guess I can believe the scores of 53-54.

Birdie every hole, it's a 54, and that is the objective of scrambles.

[MEfree]

There are 2 teams of 4 on each hole.

Are they both hitting at the same time?  8 tee shots followed by 8 second shots...that seems like a nightmare.  Now if you are talking an A & B team that sorta keep an eye on each other playing one after the other, that is a different story.

[rkim291968]

Even if they are 20 handicappers, they play by the rules and make sure that others do as well. I have not personally witnessed actual cheating in any tournaments I have played in, which included state, municipal and club competitions.

Good to know, thanks.

( Why so many posts in Golf forum about cheaters, cheatings, etc?   Is this an accurate representation of tournament golf in general or just a few sour grapes airing their experience?  )

[MEfree]

( Why so many posts in Golf forum about cheaters, cheatings, etc?   Is this a good representation of tournament golf in general or just a few sour grapes airing their experience?  )

Personally, I think there is less cheating at tournament golf than many other competitive sports, but there are those who might try and get away with it at times.  The biggest difference is that golf is mostly self policed compared to some sports where the object might be to try to get away with as much as you can without getting called for it.

[TN94z]

Don't confuse scrambles with real tournament play.  They are two completely different animals. In my experience, scrambles are just for fun and the scores don't really matter, whereas tournaments are more serious events, played by people who are serious about their game.  Even if they are 20 handicappers, they play by the rules and make sure that others do as well. I have not personally witnessed actual cheating in any tournaments I have played in, which included state, municipal and club competitions.

This. Scrambles are for fun.  Very rarely are they much in the way of winnings.

To call charity scrambles "golf tournaments" might be stretching it.

If I play in one it is only because I wanted to contribute to the charity and have a little fun. I don't expect to win and if I did I would likely donate my winnings to the charity anyway.

I agree.  It's a far stretch

Are they both hitting at the same time?  8 tee shots followed by 8 second shots...that seems like a nightmare.  Now if you are talking an A & B team that sorta keep an eye on each other playing one after the other, that is a different story.

One team goes off and then the other team plays right behind them.  Meet up at the green and go to the next hole.  There are so many teams that register that this is the only way to do it aside from having a 2 day event. It keeps everyone honest for the most part.

Good to know, thanks.

( Why so many posts in Golf forum about cheaters, cheatings, etc?   Is this an accurate representation of tournament golf in general or just a few sour grapes airing their experience?  )

Well, the posts are directed toward scrambles. Scrambles are not so strict with the ability to buy mulligans, red tees, etc...and the fact that they are pretty laid back because it's usually all about making money for a charity.  This is by NO MEANS an accurate representation of tournament golf.  It's not about sour grapes, it's just the way it is in scrambles pretty much.

[phan52]

Does anybody remember the Oldsmobile Scramble? I played in it back in the early '90's (?). We had qualifying at our club and, if you won at your club, it qualified you to play with your Pro on a five man team at a regional championship. The winner there would go to a national event.

I was on a team that won at my club twice, and played in the Philly regional event both times. I remember going -8 on the first 8 holes one year, and finishing -8 for the day. The winners were -13. We could have done that easy, but we all stopped making putts. And going to the national event would not have cost anything, as the local Oldsmobile dealers picked up the tab. At least, that is what they did in Philly.

[barbm12thtee]

Does anybody remember the Oldsmobile Scramble? I played in it back in the early '90's (?). We had qualifying at our club and, if you won at your club, it qualified you to play with your Pro on a five man team at a regional championship. The winner there would go to a national event. I was on a team that won at my club twice, and played in the Philly regional event both times. I remember going -8 on the first 8 holes one year, and finishing -8 for the day. The winners were -13. We could have done that easy, but we all stopped making putts. And going to the national event would not have cost anything, as the local Oldsmobile dealers picked up the tab. At least, that is what they did in Philly.

Heck Yes! I was a youngster when I played in that. There was a formula they used so you couldn't load up on low handicap players. A, B, C and D players. Remember if you had enough teams signed up they would take the gross as well as a net team? The team I was on won twice. The prizes were like Oldsmobile golf bags, Oldsmobile leather gym bags and other nice stuff. We went to PGA Nationals and Windemere in Naples for regionals. From there The winners, not us