Driver Loft 8.5 to...12!

[rkim291968]

A few small studies have been thrown around the internet that those people who were given a longer driver shaft versus a shorter one, they hardly loose any distance with a shorter shaft. The conclusion, contact dictates more about distance than any possible gains from having a longer driver shaft. Of course a longer shaft will increase distance, but your playing with fire. Long distance guys do it because they are looking for that 1 in 3 drive that bombs 360 yards. For us who have to score, we would benefit from consistent distance I rather take 280,285,280 then 265, 300, 285 What if that 265 was when i needed to get over a creek 270 yards away. At least i know with a shorter driver what my distance is, instead of playing Russian roulette

Translating it for fellow high cappers .... I rather take 220, Rough, 190 than Rough, OB, Rough ;-).

[newtogolf]

After reading this thread, I took my wife's driver, which is about an inch and a half or so shorter than mine, to the driving range and tried them side by side. It was no contest. Every ball I hit off of the shorter driver looked playable had it been a tee shot, with a fade, but not a slice. I did tend to hit them off the heel so they launched left and came back right, but this was fine too.

More than a third of the balls I hit off my own driver would have been out of the fairway probably unplayable, were they made on the course. The balls I hit solidly with my driver probably went ten yards further. I was using Top Flight XL drivers, men's and women's for this test. But I managed to hit a couple with decent distance with the shorter driver and even the miss hits, off the heel, mainly, would not have been mulligan bait.

The main thing was the confidence that I was going to hit it good. I think I am going to have the shaft shortened on my Titleist 913 D2 driver, or get fitted for a new shaft, and play with the loft and draw, for next season.

Just remember if you shorten the shaft on your driver (or any club) you'll probably change the swing weight as well.

[Moppy]

Just remember if you shorten the shaft on your driver (or any club) you'll probably change the swing weight as well.

Thanks, the 913 has an adjustable weight system. So I guess I should leave that to a professional to do the fitting.

[Dave2512]

I use a shortened driver. If anything my distance increased as my mishits decreased. I'd be willing to wager I haven't hit a ball OB in more than 6 months. Partly due to instruction and improvement but I've got my FIR up to 51.6% and that has led to more GIR which improved my scores. I can go back at look at my stats and it's no surprise what increased accuracy does for my scores. The highest scores are the result of the lowest GIR percentage and the lowest GIR percentages are always the days I miss fairways.

I had a club maker shorten mine. Fifteen minutes and $25 later it was done, I provided my own grip.

[Spyder]

I shortened my Titleist 910 9.5° D3 last season from 45" to 44.5". My distance was shorter and my ball flight ended up being noticeably higher than it was at 45". I thought I was crazy so I went to a launch monitor at Windmill Lakes and hit a 45" and 44.5" side-by-side (same shaft). I actually did end up losing nearly 15 yards on average according to the on-site fitter and I did not really benefit any in terms of accuracy.

One thing that I am leery about though is that half of an inch can result in -15 yards. That did not sound right to me and I still can't grasp that concept even today. After the driver was cut down 1/2", no weights were added because I wanted to experiment with the club as it stood. However, I still cannot explain or figure out the increased height in my trajectory from simply shortening the shaft. One fitter suggested that the torque, or "kickpoint", was unfavorably altered for my swing by shortening the shaft from the butt-end. However, a representative at a local club near my home said that is completely impossible to do and it's all in my head.

In order to avoid all of the conflicting theories I have heard from "professionals" around me during this past season, I intend to just go through a fitting for a new shaft for the upcoming season. Though, by that point, I may just end up opting to buy the new 913 D3.

[newtogolf]

I shortened my Titleist 910 9.5° D3 last season from 45" to 44.5". My distance was shorter and my ball flight ended up being noticeably higher than it was at 45". I thought I was crazy so I went to a launch monitor at Windmill Lakes and hit a 45" and 44.5" side-by-side (same shaft). I actually did end up losing nearly 15 yards on average according to the on-site fitter and I did not really benefit any in terms of accuracy.

One thing that I am leery about though is that half of an inch can result in -15 yards. That did not sound right to me and I still can't grasp that concept even today. After the driver was cut down 1/2", no weights were added because I wanted to experiment with the club as it stood. However, I still cannot explain or figure out the increased height in my trajectory from simply shortening the shaft. One fitter suggested that the torque, or "kickpoint", was unfavorably altered for my swing by shortening the shaft from the butt-end. However, a representative at a local club near my home said that is completely impossible to do and it's all in my head.

In order to avoid all of the conflicting theories I have heard from "professionals" around me during this past season, I intend to just go through a fitting for a new shaft for the upcoming season. Though, by that point, I may just end up opting to buy the new 913 D3.

In "theory" a 1/2" shouldn't have that kind of impact on distance.  The only possible causes would be swing weight or if the shaft had a mid or high kick point and cutting it shorter from the butt end is now requiring more force to load properly because the kick point moved.

The swing weight would have changed so maybe you should look into having the swing weight returned to the original specs.  You could experiment by adding some lead tape on the driver head yourself.

[saevel25]

I shortened my Titleist 910 9.5° D3 last season from 45" to 44.5". My distance was shorter and my ball flight ended up being noticeably higher than it was at 45". I thought I was crazy so I went to a launch monitor at Windmill Lakes and hit a 45" and 44.5" side-by-side (same shaft). I actually did end up losing nearly 15 yards on average according to the on-site fitter and I did not really benefit any in terms of accuracy.

One thing that I am leery about though is that half of an inch can result in -15 yards. That did not sound right to me and I still can't grasp that concept even today. After the driver was cut down 1/2", no weights were added because I wanted to experiment with the club as it stood. However, I still cannot explain or figure out the increased height in my trajectory from simply shortening the shaft. One fitter suggested that the torque, or "kickpoint", was unfavorably altered for my swing by shortening the shaft from the butt-end. However, a representative at a local club near my home said that is completely impossible to do and it's all in my head.

In order to avoid all of the conflicting theories I have heard from "professionals" around me during this past season, I intend to just go through a fitting for a new shaft for the upcoming season. Though, by that point, I may just end up opting to buy the new 913 D3.

Who ever said that the kick point or torque was altered is crap. Here's the thing, these shafts are meant to be cut down. They come in stock lengths and be trimmed. Wood shafts are usually 46" and then trimmed down for multiple of purposes. They don't sell individual 3 wood shafts versus driver shafts. That's why many of those shafts have a butt end of the club that is pretty much uniform for about 8-12 inches to allow it to be cut down to size. Cutting down the part of the shaft that actually has the taper on it, would damage the performance, and ruin the shaft.

You should not loose 15 yards of distance. That would mean you turned your driver into a 3 wood, which is not right. Even if you cut down the driver and inch, it should still have an inch extra length on the 3-wood, plus the lower loft. My only guess, the lighter club threw your swing off, so you might be loosing a power accumulator in the swing.

One book i read says making the golf club 1" shorter will decrease the swing weight by 3, because your moving the 14" measured focal point closer to the clubhead. I would add some lead tape to the driver head and see if that helps.

[Spyder]

Who ever said that the kick point or torque was altered is crap. Here's the thing, these shafts are meant to be cut down. They come in stock lengths and be trimmed. Wood shafts are usually 46" and then trimmed down for multiple of purposes. They don't sell individual 3 wood shafts versus driver shafts. That's why many of those shafts have a butt end of the club that is pretty much uniform for about 8-12 inches to allow it to be cut down to size. Cutting down the part of the shaft that actually has the taper on it, would damage the performance, and ruin the shaft.

You should not loose 15 yards of distance. That would mean you turned your driver into a 3 wood, which is not right. Even if you cut down the driver and inch, it should still have an inch extra length on the 3-wood, plus the lower loft. My only guess, the lighter club threw your swing off, so you might be loosing a power accumulator in the swing.

One book i read says making the golf club 1" shorter will decrease the swing weight by 3, because your moving the 14" measured focal point closer to the clubhead. I would add some lead tape to the driver head and see if that helps.

In "theory" a 1/2" shouldn't have that kind of impact on distance.  The only possible causes would be swing weight or if the shaft had a mid or high kick point and cutting it shorter from the butt end is now requiring more force to load properly because the kick point moved.

The swing weight would have changed so maybe you should look into having the swing weight returned to the original specs.  You could experiment by adding some lead tape on the driver head yourself.

Thanks a lot for the feedback guys. I will need to look into the lead tape placement that you both referenced because I've never done that. Though, I am assuming I would be adding it to the toe (farthest point / below the Titleist logo).

Would adding a weight to the butt-end of the club where it was trimmed from positively impact the weight and/or return it to the previous weight? I am not sure off-hand what the stock swing-weight for the 910 D3 is with the Project X 7C3 Tour shaft I have in it is. One of the fitters in the establishment also recommended this as a "quick fix". One thing that I left out is that the fitters noticed that I missed left with the 44.5" than with the 45". I am beginning to think that the 1/2" reduction may have actually caused an issue for me. Previously, I would have thought someone saying this was crazy...

[saevel25]

Put it anywhere you want on the club head. you wont effect the COG that much at all, it takes a crap load of lead tape to move the COG any significant amount. That would be like adding 10+ swing weight measurements, which is absurd :p

[newtogolf]

I'm pretty sure the net effect of shortening the shaft makes the club head feel lighter so you should add the weight to the head.  I'd suggest, since it's a driver, add the weight on the bottom of the club so you can't see it at address or during your swing.

[Kujan]

I had my driver cut down to 45 and the 4-wood to 42.5. Also applied lead tape to the bottom. Like saeve125 said, the shafts are too long to begin with.

[Strandly]

I take it driver lofts cannot be changed, right?  My driver right now says 10.5 and I've had a lingering suspicion for the last couple months that a 9.5 might benefit me more as I do not have a problem getting the ball up.  While playing yesterday towards the end of the round one of the other people in my group asked what my driver loft was and commented that it might be a bit high after watching my drives all afternoon.

[MS256]

I had my driver cut down to 45 and the 4-wood to 42.5. Also applied lead tape to the bottom. Like saeve125 said, the shafts are too long to begin with.

Average driver length on the PGA Tour (best players in the world) is 44 1/2 inches and yet the off the rack clubs most of us buy are longer than that. A little backward.

Sure maybe the occasional solid hit may go a little farther with a 46 inch club on the simulator (and sell the club) but most people can't consistently handle that length and keep it in the fairway.

[Fourputt]

Back in the late 80's and early 90's I used to play a first generation TaylorMade Tour Driver at 8.5°, and I used a first gen Burner driver at 9.5° as a fairway club.  Both were fitted with TT Gold 43" shafts.  I tended to hit the 8.5 so high that I was toying with the idea of buying a 7°, but it was always too expensive at $110 .

Now I play an 11° Callaway, and don't hit it as high as I did that old TM.  My swing is slower now, and technology has changed so much with the modern graphite shafts that everything is different.  If you are just looking at face loft, you are missing a lot of what controls ball flight from a modern driver.  Flex and kick point in the shaft, and weighting in the head, probably have more to do with it than loft.  The key is getting it all matched to your swing.

[WhySoSerious]

Who ever said that the kick point or torque was altered is crap. Here's the thing, these shafts are meant to be cut down. They come in stock lengths and be trimmed. Wood shafts are usually 46" and then trimmed down for multiple of purposes. They don't sell individual 3 wood shafts versus driver shafts. That's why many of those shafts have a butt end of the club that is pretty much uniform for about 8-12 inches to allow it to be cut down to size. Cutting down the part of the shaft that actually has the taper on it, would damage the performance, and ruin the shaft.

You should not loose 15 yards of distance. That would mean you turned your driver into a 3 wood, which is not right. Even if you cut down the driver and inch, it should still have an inch extra length on the 3-wood, plus the lower loft. My only guess, the lighter club threw your swing off, so you might be loosing a power accumulator in the swing.

One book i read says making the golf club 1" shorter will decrease the swing weight by 3, because your moving the 14" measured focal point closer to the clubhead. I would add some lead tape to the driver head and see if that helps.

I believe the trimming to take a 46" wood shaft and make it suitable for a fairway wood , 3,5,7 etc. , would be done at the tip,not the butt. Which is why shaft specs also list the 'PTL' as in parallel tip length and why some shafts are considered R/S , tip-trimming to get shaft to play the desired flex. A fairway shaft is indeed usually the same as a driver shaft with the tip trimmed a certain amount.Tip trimming also stiffens the tip which will ,generally, lower the ball flight.

[MS256]

I believe the trimming to take a 46" wood shaft and make it suitable for a fairway wood , 3,5,7 etc. , would be done at the tip,not the butt. Which is why shaft specs also list the 'PTL' as in parallel tip length and why some shafts are considered R/S , tip-trimming to get shaft to play the desired flex. A fairway shaft is indeed usually the same as a driver shaft with the tip trimmed a certain amount.Tip trimming also stiffens the tip which will ,generally, lower the ball flight.

Most fairway wood shafts are 10 grams heavier than most driver shafts. In the past when most driver heads were smaller and most driver lengths were only an inch longer than a 3W off the rack the same shafts were often used, but usually not anymore.

[WhySoSerious]

I should have been more specific,I was speaking in terms of shafts that are bought and cut down to go into a particular head, not 'made for' shafts that a manufacturer will use to put in their off the rack clubs.

[hendog]

The last couple of days I have been giving my R9 one last chance at range to see if I can save some money. I've been gripping down on it about an inch and just focusing on hitting straight. I've had pretty good success and I think I could survive with it but what I can't tell at the range is if those shots would be any longer than my 3W. They come out so low that they are very "safe" but will require quite a bit of roll out to get extra distance beyond the 3W. I'll have to go and find a vacant hole tonight and hit a couple of each to see. If the distance is basically equivalent then I am going to have to make a change and I will start over with a good fitting.