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Oh man... I'd love to. Not happening any time soon though. Young family, bills... Not complaining though. I wouldn't trade the kids for anything. Actually though, my parents live in MD. Next time we road trip there, I am going to try to convince the wife to sidetrack through Erie. Even if I only had time for a short lesson, I would like to.

Honestly, if you were going to pick one time to go, I'd say that weekend would be the best time. Lots of events, plenty of things to do and learn, and lots of people to meet. Should be an awesome experience!

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

Oh man... I'd love to. Not happening any time soon though. Young family, bills...

Not complaining though. I wouldn't trade the kids for anything.

Actually though, my parents live in MD. Next time we road trip there, I am going to try to convince the wife to sidetrack through Erie. Even if I only had time for a short lesson, I would like to.

We have nice beaches. And wine.

No need for the wine (neither of us drink), but I think she would go for the beaches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

Oh man... I'd love to. Not happening any time soon though. Young family, bills...

Not complaining though. I wouldn't trade the kids for anything.

Actually though, my parents live in MD. Next time we road trip there, I am going to try to convince the wife to sidetrack through Erie. Even if I only had time for a short lesson, I would like to.

Honestly, if you were going to pick one time to go, I'd say that weekend would be the best time. Lots of events, plenty of things to do and learn, and lots of people to meet. Should be an awesome experience!

I agree with you here.  I just can't move golf in front of the family priority wise.

I would like to do so much more with my golf game, it is just kinda difficult right now.  That is why I set up the net to hit into at home.  I actually hit balls every day.  I will full swing into the net, and hit full wedges from one corner of the lawn to the other, short game practice, etc..  Just can't get out to the course as much as I would like, especially when things get busier in the summer.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

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I agree with you here.  I just can't move golf in front of the family priority wise. I would like to do so much more with my golf game, it is just kinda difficult right now.  That is why I set up the net to hit into at home.  I actually hit balls every day.  I will full swing into the net, and hit full wedges from one corner of the lawn to the other, short game practice, etc..  Just can't get out to the course as much as I would like, especially when things get busier in the summer.

Yea, I'm in the same boat, it's why I only play like twice a month. Actually it sounds like you get to practice more than I do, too, since my net broke.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Very nice @billchao !!

Nice pitching as well.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

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Very nice @billchao !!   Nice pitching as well.

Thanks! Now I just have to do it all hundreds of times so it sticks.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Thanks! Now I just have to do it all hundreds of times so it sticks.


I'm not sure that would even help. My brain still goes to left field sometimes. :loco:

- Shane

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I'm not sure that would even help. My brain still goes to left field sometimes. :loco:

Well you know what the solution to that is, right? Practice getting your brain to go to right field so you end up somewhere in center :-P

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Well you know what the solution to that is, right?

Practice getting your brain to go to right field so you end up somewhere in center


Lol. My brain seems to have a mind of it's own. ;-)

- Shane

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Working on an SV4 skill today. Haven't mapped out my zones, yet, but I am drawing out the upcoming holes for my round on Sunday and making a rudimentary yardage book in a composition notebook with Google Earth.

I'm marking out distances to trouble areas (front and back), distinctive landmarks (like where doglegs turn), and approach shots. I'm also preplanning my tee shots and where I should aim them.

It's a course I am very familiar with so I'm kind of surprised at how tragically flawed my past strategy has been. It's amazing the kind of perspective you can gain by looking at these holes this way, instead of just relying on past experiences on course. I'm seeing options that I never would have considered if I was just looking the holes from the tee.

Hopefully I can play well enough to justify all this work.

Oh, and I'm going to plot the results, too, so I can start to build a pattern (over time).

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Short range session today. I did my drills with a few real swings thrown in intermittently. I hit the ball pretty well, most of the shots were draws (90%). Exaggerated swings produced over-draws, almost borderline hooks. Ball is coming out a little lower and starting more to the left than I think it should be, so maybe have to open up the face a little bit now.

8 Iron:

I think the drill swings look good, but when I go back to a "real" swing, I lose a lot of what I'm working on. Picture hasn't changed much.

I think I'm doing things backwards? Like I'm doing the drills and exaggerated swings and trying to incorporate the feels into my regular swing, but maybe I should be swinging with the exaggerated swing and working on making that shot more playable?

Anyway, here's the driver:

Hit left with the driver, too, which I was surprised about. I think that's largely due to clubface issues. I guess I'm so used to fade/slicing it that I just started lining up with the face closed at address and I'm hitting pulls. I'll have to open the face up and see what happens.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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I think it looks pretty good. I see a change in the way the shaft is working and how you're using the ground on the downswing, much more ballistic.

I would just recommend adding in slower swings. Like with the driver, make some swings where you're feeling your pieces but only hitting it 100 yards and I think you'll see a change in the start line. Also it's a good way to train the entire motion. Driver swing also got more cupped with the left wrist and across the line compared to the 8 iron.

Real quick, make sure the 8 iron isn't too far back in your stance, should be forward of center, might be the camera angle that is making it look like it's in the middle of your stance.

Mike McLoughlin

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I think it looks pretty good. I see a change in the way the shaft is working and how you're using the ground on the downswing, much more ballistic.

Thanks, Mike. The ground thing is a freebie; Dave and I never discussed anything about that. I'll take it. [quote name="mvmac" url="/t/70666/my-swing-billchao/120#post_1015649"]I would just recommend adding in slower swings. Like with the driver, make some swings where you're feeling your pieces but only hitting it 100 yards and I think you'll see a change in the start line. Also it's a good way to train the entire motion. Driver swing also got more cupped with the left wrist and across the line compared to the 8 iron. [/quote]Yea, honestly, the driver swing felt weird. I did all my drills and practice with irons, so when I picked up the driver, it was all really awkward. You'll see on that first swing that I hit it super fat. I'll slow it down and film it. I actually do slow motion swings at home without a ball, but oddly enough, I never do them on the range with a ball. [quote name="mvmac" url="/t/70666/my-swing-billchao/120#post_1015649"]Real quick, make sure the 8 iron isn't too far back in your stance, should be forward of center, might be the camera angle that is making it look like it's in the middle of your stance. [/quote]I think it might be the camera angle. I was set up to hit to a target green, which was about 1 o'clock from the mat. I hard a hard time lining it up perpendicular to my stance line instead of to the mat (and guard fence). I'll keep an eye out though, just in case.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Thanks, Mike. The ground thing is a freebie; Dave and I never discussed anything about that. I'll take it.

Yeah I figured that. Can be a chicken/egg type of thing, some players will shallow it by getting the weight further forward, some respond to it better by shallowing the shaft/flattening the lead wrist. If you shallow it out ( with decent body alignments) you "have to" transfer forward, makes it more instinctual IMO. Golfers that steepen it have to back out of it in an attempt not swing down and left a million degrees.

Mike McLoughlin

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Ugly round today. 103. Hooks and over-draws. Couldn't hit the ball straight to save my life. I think I'm doing too much with the swing motion; time to dial it back a little. Then again, who knows? I tried making an adjustment on the course and then I couldn't hit the ball well at all. I haven't hit the ball this poorly in a long time; I was actually getting pissed out there. On one hole, I put it in the woods, and managed to hit a tree on four separate shots before I got out. On the positive side, pitching was actually pretty good. Contact was much better and more consistent. I noticed I was hitting my pitches a little long (landing them too close to the pin), so at one point I started pitching with my 60 instead of the 56. That worked out pretty well.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Ugly round today. 103. Hooks and over-draws. Couldn't hit the ball straight to save my life.

I think I'm doing too much with the swing motion; time to dial it back a little. Then again, who knows? I tried making an adjustment on the course and then I couldn't hit the ball well at all.

You aimed right before, didn't you?

Perhaps your swing motion has improved, but you were still aimed well right. Add that to your now rightward swing direction and you're gonna hit some big hooks.

I would be encouraged if I were you. The changes are creeping in to your actual golf game, right? That's a good thing. When I'm working on a "draw" piece, I don't fret the over-draws. They're a good sign. A sign that I'm moving forward, making progress.

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You aimed right before, didn't you? Perhaps your swing motion has improved, but you were still aimed well right. Add that to your now rightward swing direction and you're gonna hit some big hooks.

That makes sense. The course was crowded and one guy in our group was excruciatingly slow and holding up the pace, so I didn't want to look like I was contributing by lining up clubs for alignment. So I have no real idea how well I aimed today. The aiming right was a byproduct of my old swing I think. I swung hard left, so I started standing a bit closed so I would swing less left. But yea, that won't work if I'm swinging right, now will it? Should I start opening my stance? [quote name="iacas" url="/t/70666/my-swing-billchao/120#post_1015950"] I would be encouraged if I were you. The changes are creeping in to your actual golf game, right? That's a good thing. When I'm working on a "draw" piece, I don't fret the over-draws. They're a good sign. A sign that I'm moving forward, making progress. [/quote]Thanks for that. It's kind of tough to be encouraged when I'm hitting it all over the place (which is really just hitting it somewhere I'm not used to, so I don't know how to aim and adjust). But you're right, I have to get my perspective and expectations in order. Dave said as much in person, but I guess I feel differently about hooks on the range vs the golf course.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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  • Posts

    • I'm not an "official" instructor but I've been helping people for a few years now. I find that most beginners never get taught a proper concept of how the swing works. I also find that most people need a better understanding of what the arms and hands do before even working on the grip or the rest of the body. This is because what your concept of how the arms work through the downswing will dictate how strong or weak your grip must be. And if your arms work correctly then you can get away with a lot of variation in the lower body and still hit the ball decently. This will be long by the way... now...I get technical because...well...if you're writing it, you have to make it understandable. So let's understand the swing structure of the left or lead arm. The clubhead is controlled by the left hand, the left hand is controlled by the left wrist which is made up of the two bones of the forearm; the ulna closest to the pinky finger and the radius closest to the thumb. The forearm is attached to but can work independently of the humorous or upper arm which ends at the shoulder joint. That's the structure you are working with. Now how each section of that structure can work in different ways so let's talk about them starting at the upper arm. You may have heard people use the term "external shoulder rotation." It's usually used in reference to the right arm but that's okay you need to understand it in the left arm as well. First off...that's not a correct term. The shoulder is a complex structure of three bones; the clavicle in the upper chest/neck area, the scapula or shoulder blade that glides across the back and the end of the humorous bone that is the upper arm. So when you hear that term what they really are saying is "external rotation of the humerus." A simple way to understand this is to think about arm wrestling. If you are arm wresting someone with your elbow on a table you are trying to force your opponents arm into external rotation while your upper arm would be internally rotating. If you are losing the wrestling match you will find that while your elbow stays in place, your forearm and hand will be pushed back behind the elbow as your humerus externally rotates. So in the golf swing we don't want to be the winner of the arm wrestling match... at any point in time! Both upper arms need to externally rotate. The right upper arm externally rotates in the backswing and stays in that position through impact or for some people just before but very close to impact. The left arm must externally rotate in the downswing from impact through the finish. Some people choose to set-up with both upper arms externally rotated...think elbows pointed at the hips or biceps up. Others will start with just the right arm in this position...some people describe it as the "giving blood" position. Others start with both elbows internally rotated...biceps facing inward toward each other. You can set-up whichever way feels best to you but in your backswing and downswing the upper arms MUST externally rotate. Now back to the left arm...with which you should try to control the swing...and the forearm. The forearm is where most people get in trouble because it can rotate left or right no matter which orientation your upper arm is in...try it...it's just how the forearm is structured to work. And this is where you MUST make the decision as to how you want the forearms to work in order to choose how strong or weak your grip must be. Ben Hogan in his book 5 Lessons uses the terms supination and pronation. To illustrate it simply grab a club in your left hand and hold it out in front of you. Rotate your forearm to where your knuckles point to the sky (this is pronation) and then rotate your forearm the other way so that your knuckles point to the ground (this is supination). When your lead forearm is in pronation (knuckles up) the ulna will be on the left side of the radius. In supination (knuckles down the ulna rotates under the radius and the radius is now on the left side of the ulna. Very important that you relate this to the position of the ulna. At the top of the backswing you should be in a position where you feel that the knuckles of the left hand are pointed to the sky. As you rotate your body open and your chest pulls your arms down and into impact you will need to be aware that your ulna stays on the left side of the radius as long as possible. This is the position instructors are trying to have you achieve by pulling the butt of the club into an invisible wall past your left leg while maintaining the 90 degree angle formed by the shaft and your forearm. You've probably seen or heard of that drill as we all have over the years. Now here is the IMPORTANT part that no one seems to ever speak of...what happens from there!?! From that position...ulna on the left side of the radius, shaft and the forearm at a 90 degree angle, hands directly over the ball...you have two choices. 1) You can keep the ulna traveling toward the target on the left side of the radius and only release (unhinge) the wrists to lower the clubhead down into the ball or 2) while you unhinge your left wrist you can rotate your left forearm from the pronated position (knuckles up) to the supinated position (knuckles down) and let the ulna rotate under and eventually to the right side of the radius. If you choose to release the club with method 1 you will need a strong grip. The clubface will stay stable and square to the target throughout the swing but you probably will lose distance and have a very spinny ball flight. If you choose to release the club with method 2 you will probably require a much weaker grip as the clubhead will be less stable as it closes down coming into impact. This method requires more timing but results in more power through impact and usually more distance. You may also hook the ball if you start with too strong of a grip or a closed clubface at address. Method 2 is what most pros use but not all. Method 1 is what causes most people to hit weak, spinny slices and requires an unusually strong grip because with method 1 the left forearm has a tendency to open more coming into impact where the ulna stays in front of the radius too long.    Here's the catch...you need to learn both releases. Release 1 is how you want to use your wedges when you want to make sure the bounce interacts with the turf or if you need to hit a cut from left to right around a tree. You'll get more height and more spin with release 1. Release 2 will let the leading edge tear through the turf taking a nice crisp divot and can be used to hook a ball from right to left. Congratulations to anyone that read through all of this! I believe that once your brain understands precisely how it needs to control the different parts of your body it can do it repetitively on command. Your swing will repeat and not fall apart from day to day. Learn how you want to use your forearms and you can choose your grip and clubface position at address. Either method will work and both methods are used by the best players in the world for different shots.
    • Day 330 - Mostly just partial swings today, so I could really focus on exaggerating my hips towards the target in my finish. 
    • Day 72 - 2024-12-11 /sees a picture of Chet after shaving with a saw, goes back to doing a little mirror work at AMG.
    • Day 147: more mirror work. Trying to hone in the backswing stuff real nice. 
    • If I was going to try to help someone fix a low snap hook without actually seeing their swing I would have to tell them to break down the problem into pieces. See if you can fix the "low" part of the problem first. A low ball flight tells me you are probably swinging level or hitting down on the ball instead of hitting up on it. Try teeing the ball higher than you are comfortable and put the ball up in your stance a little further up than comfortable...try putting it off your left heal or even the left toe. Try to feel like your club head is swinging up through impact. Try that first and see if it gets you to a high snap hook or a high pull hook.    If you want to address the hook part of the swing you are going to have to look at two areas of the swing as well as your concept of what the arms and hands do through impact. I love talking through this stuff with people but I'll only go into it further if you really want to go down that rabbit hole...you would have to say so. Swing well my friend!
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