Simon Dyson DQed at BMW Masters

[Shorty]

Bull. He was called on it, he accepted it, he was DQ'd. End of story but now, somehow, you think he should have an additional penalty outside of what is proscribed for what he did? Come on.

Pardon?

He denied it in textbook politician "I have no recollection" fashion. That's hardly accepting it. He had no option but to accept his DQ.

It's not the end of the story.

His reputation amongst his peers is gone forever. Shattered. Lost.

Why do you think I am thinking he should get an extra penalty? I didn't say that.

He will get what's coming to him, whatever that may be.

The "mental error" was not realising the cameras were on him. He thought he would get away with it. The most blatant example of cheating you will ever see.

[Shorty]

It looked completely deliberate and not particularly sneaky to me, I think he straight up didn't know it was against the rules.

It's one of the first rules you learn. Of course he knew.

[Strandly]

It's one of the first rules you learn. Of course he knew.

Right, I find it hard to believe as well but like I said it doesn't look like he was trying to be even remotely sneaky about it.. so that makes me think he didn't know.  It could be the brain fart I guess, but I find the brain fart excuse somewhat less believable actually.  It's like saying in the middle of a chess game you forgot the king can only move 1 space at a time; it's almost too absurd to believe.

[misty_mountainhop]

Pardon?

He denied it in textbook politician "I have no recollection" fashion. That's hardly accepting it. He had no option but to accept his DQ.

It's not the end of the story.

His reputation amongst his peers is gone forever. Shattered. Lost.

Why do you think I am thinking he should get an extra penalty? I didn't say that.

He will get what's coming to him, whatever that may be.

The "mental error" was not realising the cameras were on him. He thought he would get away with it. The most blatant example of cheating you will ever see.

Shall I type in CAPS? Maybe he didn't have any recollection. How many times do you hear of sportspeople in the stupid 'zone' where they are blanking almost everything that's extraneous? Half the people I know can't even remember what they scored on the previous hole let alone at the end of a round and whether they may have infringed a rule re. spike marks. I don't accuse them of cheating when they can't remember.

What would you have him do on being confronted with the evidence? He accepted it and was DQ'd. I think you need more than one example of this sort of behaviour to justifiably call someone a blatant cheat.

Just to clarify, you quite clearly implied he should receive more than the simple DQ. In response to krupa stating that "Looks like there might be more coming to Dyson..." you respond "And rightly so." ( http://thesandtrap.com/t/70780/simon-dyson-dqed-at-bmw-masters/18#post_913656 ). Not sure it could be clearer really.

[birlyshirly]

It's one of the first rules you learn. Of course he knew.

It's impossible to entertain the possibility that he doesn't know the rule.

Right, I find it hard to believe as well but like I said it doesn't look like he was trying to be even remotely sneaky about it.. so that makes me think he didn't know.  It could be the brain fart I guess, but I find the brain fart excuse somewhat less believable actually.  It's like saying in the middle of a chess game you forgot the king can only move 1 space at a time; it's almost too absurd to believe.

Could you liken his act to a soccer player who raises a hand to block a ball that's otherwise going past him and into a danger area? Every schoolboy knows the handball rule. But reflexes or instincts sometimes take over. In soccer, I believe an intentional handball can warrant an instant dismissal - but probably not a 3 month ban?

Golf puts a greater burden of trust on its competitors to self-referee. But this case was in plain sight. His playing partner(s) could have seen and called him on it. I don't know that the video shows him looking to see whether his partners back is turned. Not to diminish the severity of this case, but I think issues around improving your lie in the rough, where not in plain view of your partners, raise more serious questions of trust.

[luu5]

I don't know that the video shows him looking to see whether his partners back is turned.

What I have seen Dyson play, he always moves and turns very quickly and twitchy. So looking around and acting quickly may be his way of doing things and not to be looked at as "did anyone see that" type of act.

I love (not) the way people judge other people based merely on one video.

[luu5]

His reputation amongst his peers is gone forever. Shattered. Lost.

And you know that now, how?

[birlyshirly]

What I have seen Dyson play, he always moves and turns very quickly and twitchy. So looking around and acting quickly may be his way of doing things and not to be looked at as "did anyone see that" type of act.

I love (not) the way people judge other people based merely on one video.

Sorry. I'm NOT judging him.

I could, and maybe should, have said "I DON'T see him looking to whether his partners back is turned."

But I've have felt obliged to go back and view the video again to make the more categorical statement.

Besides, as is clear from the Tiger's twig thread, people read different things into the same video footage and I wasn't looking for a flame war over whether Dyson gives his playing partner a shifty sidelong glance (through shades!) before he taps his ball on his line.

[boogielicious]

It's impossible to entertain the possibility that he doesn't know the rule.

Could you liken his act to a soccer player who raises a hand to block a ball that's otherwise going past him and into a danger area? Every schoolboy knows the handball rule. But reflexes or instincts sometimes take over. In soccer, I believe an intentional handball can warrant an instant dismissal - but probably not a 3 month ban?

Golf puts a greater burden of trust on its competitors to self-referee. But this case was in plain sight. His playing partner(s) could have seen and called him on it. I don't know that the video shows him looking to see whether his partners back is turned. Not to diminish the severity of this case, but I think issues around improving your lie in the rough, where not in plain view of your partners, raise more serious questions of trust.

Let's ask Maradona that question!  (Sorry English football fans.  Had to do it)

[birlyshirly]

Let's ask Maradona that question!  (Sorry English football fans.  Had to do it)

I'm Scottish. So did I!

[Shorty]

And you know that now, how?

I know because cheats aren't tolerated and are never forgotten, nor forgiven.

[jamo]

I know because cheats aren't tolerated and are never forgotten, nor forgiven.

See: Singh, Vijay.

[misty_mountainhop]

See: Singh, Vijay.

Who are the players who played with VJ and accused him of score alteration (or whatever it was)? Who was the 'Candian pro who played with him that day'? Who was the American player who said 'It was not a misunderstanding' ( http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019296/index.htm )? I've tried quite hard to find documentary evidence of who these were and didn't come across any. Surely these players are known?

Seem to recall VJ accused this of being a stitch up involving some VIP's son or some such - was it in Indonesia or somewhere similar? Basically, this comes across as an internet rumour with little to substantiate it together with the fact that VJ perhaps isn't the most sociable of people. Maybe a bit of racism thrown in for good measure? Surely not.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

See: Singh, Vijay.

Who are the players who played with VJ and accused him of score alteration (or whatever it was)? Who was the 'Candian pro who played with him that day'? Who was the American player who said 'It was not a misunderstanding' (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019296/index.htm)? I've tried quite hard to find documentary evidence of who these were and didn't come across any. Surely these players are known?

Seem to recall VJ accused this of being a stitch up involving some VIP's son or some such - was it in Indonesia or somewhere similar? Basically, this comes across as an internet rumour with little to substantiate it together with the fact that VJ perhaps isn't the most sociable of people. Maybe a bit of racism thrown in for good measure? Surely not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

I know because cheats aren't tolerated and are never forgotten, nor forgiven.

See: Singh, Vijay.

But the fact that you mention shows clearly that it is not forgotten.  It is a significant stain on Singh's career, especially considering that details are sketchy and hard to find, and as mentioned above, his accusers seem to be nameless.  The whole incident seems a bit fishy to me.  Vijay is associated with it simply by accusation, whether it actually happened or not.  Tiger is fighting right now to defend his reputation from the same sort of unfounded accusation.

[luu5]

I know because cheats aren't tolerated and are never forgotten, nor forgiven.

I thought you had spoken with his peers.

[Lihu]

I know because cheats aren't tolerated and are never forgotten, nor forgiven.

This year seemed to have a lot of "cheating" brought up. I wonder if there is a sudden drive to enforce rules more carefully?

I learned one thing for sure, don't touch anything that doesn't look like an obvious crater.

[jamo]

Who are the players who played with VJ and accused him of score alteration (or whatever it was)? Who was the 'Candian pro who played with him that day'? Who was the American player who said 'It was not a misunderstanding' ([URL=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019296/index.htm]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019296/index.htm[/URL])? I've tried quite hard to find documentary evidence of who these were and didn't come across any. Surely these players are known? Seem to recall VJ accused this of being a stitch up involving some VIP's son or some such - was it in Indonesia or somewhere similar? Basically, this comes across as an internet rumour with little to substantiate it together with the fact that VJ perhaps isn't the most sociable of people. Maybe a bit of racism thrown in for good measure? Surely not.

To be clear, I'm not accusing Vijay of cheating, nor do I think he deserves to be labeled "cheater" for the rest of his life whether or not he did cheat. But it's an incident that happened on the Asian Tour nearly 30 years ago, and people still bring it up. (Which I guess I'm guilty of now.) My point wasn't that Vijay is a cheater, it's that people still seem to remember him as one.

[Lihu]

To be clear, I'm not accusing Vijay of cheating, nor do I think he deserves to be labeled "cheater" for the rest of his life whether or not he did cheat.

But it's an incident that happened on the Asian Tour nearly 30 years ago, and people still bring it up. (Which I guess I'm guilty of now.)

My point wasn't that Vijay is a cheater, it's that people still seem to remember him as one.

Given the time frame of the incident, it is possible that he was potentially "over-scrutinized".

However, the attitude he should have had was to make sure he knew and played by the rules perfectly before considering anything else.