Pace Problem

[David in FL]

3 hours ago, colin007 said:

Slow play is caused by slow players, who will play slowly even from the correct tees, on short, easy courses, in perfect weather...

...and who are allowed to do so by the golf course management and personnel.

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, colin007 said:

Slow play is caused by slow players, who will play slowly even from the correct tees, on short, easy courses, in perfect weather. 

They should be shot on sight.

With which club, wedge, iron or wood?

[Indy-Archer]

I worked at a local gun range for a while. Every shooter visiting our range for the first time HAD to watch a 10 minute safety/introduction video. Now this was mostly for safety reasons, but I can't think of any reason that it wouldn't work for a local club as well. Produce a short (5 min) video that explains some essentials of golf etiquette: Pace. Looking for lost balls. OB. Talking. Private property surrounding the course, etc. 

No one should be showing up right at tee time anyway, so when people call in to set up a tee time, a simple question asking if they'd played the course before will give the opportunity to let them know ahead of time that they will be required to watch the video prior to playing and to plan accordingly. Then any warning ON the course comes with the knowledge that they've already watched the info PRIOR to being on the course. 

 

This could even be required for every one prior to their first round each season (or for those places that play year round, starting at a particular date each year). 

[LMoore]

39 minutes ago, Indy-Archer said:

I worked at a local gun range for a while. Every shooter visiting our range for the first time HAD to watch a 10 minute safety/introduction video. Now this was mostly for safety reasons, but I can't think of any reason that it wouldn't work for a local club as well. Produce a short (5 min) video that explains some essentials of golf etiquette: Pace. Looking for lost balls. OB. Talking. Private property surrounding the course, etc. 

No one should be showing up right at tee time anyway, so when people call in to set up a tee time, a simple question asking if they'd played the course before will give the opportunity to let them know ahead of time that they will be required to watch the video prior to playing and to plan accordingly. Then any warning ON the course comes with the knowledge that they've already watched the info PRIOR to being on the course. 

 

This could even be required for every one prior to their first round each season (or for those places that play year round, starting at a particular date each year). 

I confess of being a “bitcher” when it comes to course care. Correctly repairing a pitch mark, divot, raking bunkers......a mandatory video sounds like a good idea.........update on rules.......local rules for the course you are playing if first time.

[colin007]

14 hours ago, David in FL said:

...and who are allowed to do so by the golf course management and personnel.

Agreed, but not all courses have the people to take care of this. One of the courses where I play, most of the time literally there's 1 (One!!) person working on the whole entire course, and she's in the "pro shop"

5 hours ago, boogielicious said:

With which club, wedge, iron or wood?

All of them at the same time 🙂

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Agreed, but not all courses have the people to take care of this. One of the courses where I play, most of the time literally there's 1 (One!!) person working on the whole entire course, and she's in the "pro shop"

 

That’s a perfect example of the course management contributing to the problem by not even scheduling someone to marshal...

[3jacker]

17 hours ago, colin007 said:

Slow play is caused by slow players, who will play slowly even from the correct tees, on short, easy courses, in perfect weather. 

Often times the better the player, the slower the play.

Hackers are generally pretty damn quick.

[colin007]

9 hours ago, David in FL said:

That’s a perfect example of the course management contributing to the problem by not even scheduling someone to marshal...

No, what I'm saying is that it's a course that can't afford to have more than one person working. Not enough revenue... 😞

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

No, what I'm saying is that it's a course that can't afford to have more than one person working. Not enough revenue... 😞

Maybe if they added one minimum-wage marshal (or a volunteer who does it for playing privileges) and improved pace of play, they would increase play, and revenues...

Maybe not, but regardless, they are still making a conscious decision to not marshal the course.

[Cartboy]

My lack of presence here in this thread (that I started) should suggest that generally-speaking, pace is not as much of a problem at our very-challenging-for-a-tourist-area course.  Our course is really too much of a course for many/most "resort" golfers.

But . . . last week another course sent us a bunch of very-slow ---holes, retired cops if that matters.  Our GM/PGA Pro is the most diplomatic person I've met in my 50 years of golf, and he did his best to coax them along, with a full tee sheet of golfers behind them, bitching and moaning about slow play.

Every cart went out that day . . . lots of golfers.

He was about ready to call the cops on the cops, because they told him to f-off, they paid their money and they would do whatever they wanted.  Our GM/Pro told the beverage cart to not stop for them any more, and he worked the rest of the golfers behind them, offering rain checks or whatever it would take to avoid negative reviews on the Internet (since everyone, everywhere is now a critic of everything).

One couple just gave up on 11, and told him they had to leave, probably for a timeshare tour 😎.  He wound up booking them for rounds on two more days while they were here, at discounts, not rain checks.

While we were bringing up carts yesterday morning, he and the Pro were talking about what they can do about slow groups because a slow, 3-tee time group was scheduled for their third day.  They were going to talk to therm about playing a faster game.  (and that group did!!!!)

We've been booked pretty full recently with older golf-junket groups, and he was out there marshaling early, and I was putting eyes on groups for him when I was on the course, during gaps on the tee sheet, after 11:00 AM, and things were moving pretty well.

When the tee sheet is full, asking slow groups to let faster groups play through is not a realistic option.  Play faster or leave are.

I don't think there is an answer for groups that play in 3 hours when the tee sheet is full and you have groups that play in 3 hours and groups that play in 5 hours.  Well, other than to play at a lesser course that isn't busy.

 

 

[Patch]

On 4/10/2019 at 4:07 PM, colin007 said:

Slow play is caused by slow players, who will play slowly even from the correct tees, on short, easy courses, in perfect weather. 

They should be shot on sight.

Then again, if some players were not so fast, then there would be no slow players. 

[ncates00]

12 minutes ago, Patch said:

Then again, if some players were not so fast, then there would be no slow players. 

Sure, but if you play your shot immediately when it is your turn, a lot of pace problems will be solved.  Do all your calculating, club selecting, green reading, ball alignment, etc. when others are playing and then play your shot.  Simple considerations like that, and others, go a long way.  We all want to enjoy the game and each others' company (if you play with others), but people are busy and have other commitments from jobs to family and other hobbies.  We can be more efficient and considerate of others' time and still have fun.

[phillyk]

4 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

  Do all your calculating, club selecting, green reading, ball alignment, etc. when others are playing and then play your shot.

I find that some of the really slow players don't do any of that.  They mostly just step up and hit like we want them to.  The reason most of them play slowly is golf is social hour.  Somebody hits, the make fun of them, BS, or whatever, then two minutes later the next guy goes.

[Marty2019]

Just speaking from my personal experience, without any data to back it up, I see slow play being caused by bad golf.   I'm not talking about the slow play problem on the tour; I'm talking about the average hacker.  It takes a lot longer to play 100 shots than it does to play 70.   

I know you guys would never do this, but I solved my regular group's slow play problem by suggesting we play a scramble.  I mean "captain's choice," take the best shot.  Either 2 men vs 2 men, or all 4 on the same team.   If we play a 4 man scramble, guys who would normally hit 90 or 100 shots, including putts, in a round of golf are now hitting 70 shots in the round.   It has sped up our play tremendously, and it's fun, too.   

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Marty2019

[ncates00]

27 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I find that some of the really slow players don't do any of that.  They mostly just step up and hit like we want them to.  The reason most of them play slowly is golf is social hour.  Somebody hits, the make fun of them, BS, or whatever, then two minutes later the next guy goes.

Hmm.  To be fair even in your hypothetical situation, even if the first guy stepped and hit, "the next guy" in your scenario simply did not do what I said--he didn't hit on his turn.  He waited two minutes according to your example.  In sum, regardless of the reason: social hour, figuring club selection, etc., the problem still remains that people aren't hitting their shot immediately upon their turn.

11 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

Just speaking from my personal experience, without any data to back it up, I see slow play being caused by bad golf.   I'm not talking about the slow play problem on the tour; I'm talking about the average hacker.  It takes a lot longer to play 100 shots than it does to play 70.   

I know you guys would never do this, but I solved my regular group's slow play problem by suggesting we play a scramble.  I mean "captain's choice," take the best shot.  Either 2 men vs 2 men, or all 4 on the same team.   If we play a 4 man scramble, guys who would normally hit 90 or 100 shots, including putts, in a round of golf are now hitting 70 shots in the round.   It has sped up our play tremendously, and it's fun, too.   

 

All things being equal, yes, that is correct.  However, I've seen plenty of responsible playing partners that don't play as well and they still play rather quickly.  It's not just down to the number of shots, it's about the circumstances in which the shots are being taken.  For example, hitting balls OB and having to hit provisionals on every tee shot, looking for balls, blading shots well over the green ad ping-ponging it back and forth, yes, those situations will cause more time.  However, the better player who shoots low but takes forever on every single shot can still take as much or more time.  Again, it's not necessarily about the number of shots; look at the circumstances.

[ncates00]

I know for me and my buddies when one of us is hitting, the other is club in hand either in the "thinking box" down the line or standing over the ball.  The trigger is pulled very quickly after a person hits.  On the green, we don't have balls in hand; no no, the ball is lined up and we're ready to putt as soon as one is struck.  We have plenty of fun and play in a manner that honors the others' time.  It also helps that we all have push carts or when we do get a cart, we jump out of the cart with 2-3 clubs and the rangefinder instead of having to walk back and forth.  I just don't get how golf takes so long for so many people.

[dennyjones]

49 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

Just speaking from my personal experience, without any data to back it up, I see slow play being caused by bad golf.   I'm not talking about the slow play problem on the tour; I'm talking about the average hacker.  It takes a lot longer to play 100 shots than it does to play 70.   

Not always the case.   The older couple I play with once in a while shoot over 100 and we finish in about 3:30.   They just play ready golf.

[Patch]

3 hours ago, ncates00 said:

Sure, but if you play your shot immediately when it is your turn, a lot of pace problems will be solved.  Do all your calculating, club selecting, green reading, ball alignment, etc. when others are playing and then play your shot.  Simple considerations like that, and others, go a long way.  We all want to enjoy the game and each others' company (if you play with others), but people are busy and have other commitments from jobs to family and other hobbies.  We can be more efficient and considerate of others' time and still have fun.

My attempt at a little dead pan, humor on my part, that apparently didn't go over very well. My bad....😎