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Cartboy

Pace Problem

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32 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I don’t care if you’re faster than me or not, but there is a level of what is “acceptable”.  Anything over 3:45, unless someone is holding you up, is unacceptable.

Pace is a funny thing. My course, as @Double Mocha Man can attest to, is one where 4hrs is absolutely acceptable (if we were to allow walking 4.5hrs would be more than acceptable). However you go to the courses near me and yeah 4hrs could be considered slow. Pace isn’t just about the golfers, it’s about the terrain, distance between holes, distance between tee box and fairway when going around the ravines/hazards, etc. Every course is different.

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6 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Pace is a funny thing. My course, as @Double Mocha Man can attest to, is one where 4hrs is absolutely acceptable (if we were to allow walking 4.5hrs would be more than acceptable). However you go to the courses near me and yeah 4hrs could be considered slow. Pace isn’t just about the golfers, it’s about the terrain, distance between holes, distance between tee box and fairway when going around the ravines/hazards, etc. Every course is different.

 Which is why I said 3:45, instead of 2:45...  :-D

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17 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Pace is a funny thing. My course, as @Double Mocha Man can attest to, is one where 4hrs is absolutely acceptable (if we were to allow walking 4.5hrs would be more than acceptable). However you go to the courses near me and yeah 4hrs could be considered slow. Pace isn’t just about the golfers, it’s about the terrain, distance between holes, distance between tee box and fairway when going around the ravines/hazards, etc. Every course is different.

Personally I can't ever recall any slow play issues at Phil's course. It's a fun, beautiful and challenging layout that definitely requires a cart.  If you play that course you will be glad you took a power cart. Though I recall, many years ago, you could walk the course.

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9 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Personally I can't ever recall any slow play issues at Phil's course. It's a fun, beautiful and challenging layout that definitely requires a cart.  If you play that course you will be glad you took a power cart. Though I recall, many years ago, you could walk the course.

Its not that theres a pace of play issue, its that sometimes factors a player can’t control can lead to longer rounds.

we used to allow walking but don’t because of pace of play. We’d have to limit the group sizes to two if players wanted to walk. 

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On 10/13/2019 at 10:05 AM, Patch said:

IDK. It seems there are always going to be three groups of golfers on a course at any one time. 1. Faster, 2. average, and 3. slower. All are selfish when it comes to pace of play to some extent. 

This website relies heavily on statistics. Is there a percentage break down of the three groups above?

 

Yes.  When the tee sheet is full, 100% of the groups behind the slow group are slow groups.

😁

 

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and, speaking of walking, we don't allow it, but right in the middle of our full-tee-sheet morning yesterday, a guy showed up with his three sons. (My 3 sons?)  None of the boys were old enough to have a driver's license, so they could only take one cart, and two of the boys had to walk.

In addition to that being a pace problem, the turn does not come back to the clubhouse.  It is along walk back.

So, I showed him how to . . . if and only if there is no one on 15 that they would be cutting in front of . . . play 16, 17 and 18, and be back.

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31 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

and, speaking of walking, we don't allow it, but right in the middle of our full-tee-sheet morning yesterday, a guy showed up with his three sons. (My 3 sons?)  None of the boys were old enough to have a driver's license, so they could only take one cart, and two of the boys had to walk.

In addition to that being a pace problem, the turn does not come back to the clubhouse.  It is along walk back.

So, I showed him how to . . . if and only if there is no one on 15 that they would be cutting in front of . . . play 16, 17 and 18, and be back.

Funny. Your course does not allow walkers, yet they accept green fees for walkers. 

My Granddaughter and I playing Thursday. She said we are going to ride. I tell great, that she can drive. Nope, being only 14, she has no driver's license, and her hs golf coach says she can't drive. Before she joined the hs golf team, I couldn't keep her from driving...lol

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20 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

What country do you think has the fastest pace of play? Asking for when I retire

Scotland. But it helps when there are so many courses to a small population. The slow courses are the ones filled up with golf tourists. 

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1 hour ago, Beastie said:

Scotland. But it helps when there are so many courses to a small population. The slow courses are the ones filled up with golf tourists. 

Duly noted. I just got done with an 18 hole round in 2:41 minutes according to my watch. The front 9 was just under an hour, then I caught up to traffic. I need to figure out how I can convince my mind that this isn't a slow pace when I am out on the course, but it puts me on tilt every time. Maybe I'll be more patient next golf season.

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5 hours ago, GolfLug said:

@colin007, we all know the wicked sense of humor golf gods have. I wouldn't want to hit a career 3W the one time I don't wait for the green to clear.. lol! 

No kidding. I drove a green once with a group still putting on it. If I waited I probably would have topped it 50 yards 😅

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Last Monday I experienced a very slow front 9, taking at least 2 1/2 hours. 3 riders and 1 walking, and we, a twosome, waited at every shot, except the tee, where they all teed off before we could get close enough to ask to play through. The walker wasn't very good, often hitting his drive 100-150 yards. They all played from the blues, and the walker would tee off last. The riders would take off, often leaving the walker behind to fend for himself. Finally, after a couple of holes, one of the carts would hang back, help look for a ball, etc. When they reached the green, the walker would often park his clubs on the wrong side, and after holing out, would retrieve his clubs and have to walk back across the green to get to the next tee. Did I mention the walker also moved in slow motion? Conserving energy, maybe? At the 10th, a par 5, while we're waiting to take our approach shots to the green, the walker holes out, shake hands, and heads back to the clubhouse. After that, we never came close to catching them again. Finished in 4 hours total.  

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On 10/15/2019 at 11:29 AM, Patch said:

Funny. Your course does not allow walkers, yet they accept green fees for walkers. 

 

Yeah, Capitalists that they are.

😁

Actually, the Dad was told No, but I heard him begging, saying he just wanted his kids to play a little golf.  

That happens when you're #1 in the state for 7 years running.

go figure

 

Edited by Cartboy
cuz

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Slow pace at our course is mostly because of playing too long of tees.  It is a very challenging course in a tourist destination, and golfers make their first mistake on the first tee.  For the same distance(s), my Florida courses are sloped around 116, and this course is sloped 130.  Our shortest tee, 5300, is sloped 126, and is not easy.

When the course opened we soon realized that our shortest "Mens'" tee was too long, being 500 yards longer than other courses' "whites" in our area.  One Winter at my Florida course, a co-volunteer mentioned "Combo" tees at his son's course, so I played our course in my mind, and proposed a Combo tee, which the GM, Pro, and owners accepted.  That was 7 years ago.

But, it is difficult to understand which tee to be on on each hole . . . I have lobbied to make it "White" for several years, which seems to be a no-brainer for everyone except the GM and owners.  If we could put down white tee markers, or even just spray paint one of the markers white (Combo) on each hole, it would help.

A lot of golfers see "Combo", 5800, and they want to play that yardage, but it takes a bit of explaining, so they default to the 6300 tee.

Of course, the young bucks play the 6700 or 7000 or 7300 tees, and a lot of them find out that's a mistake.

Funny, the group of mostly-older members that I play with, none of whom have any problem with "distance" like I do, play their own version of the Combo tee, because it's just more fun.  I would like to see the course switch to that version, put down white tee markers, and get rid of Combo, but that would take an act of Congress, and we know how hard it is to get Congress to act!!!

Some times the simplest things are the hardest to get done.

Edited by Cartboy

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14 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

Slow pace at our course is mostly because of playing too long of tees.  It is a very challenging course in a tourist destination, and golfers make their first mistake on the first tee.  For the same distance(s), my Florida courses are sloped around 116, and this course is sloped 130.  Our shortest tee, 5300, is sloped 126, and is not easy.

When the course opened we soon realized that our shortest "Mens'" tee was too long, being 500 yards longer than other courses' "whites" in our area.  One Winter at my Florida course, a co-volunteer mentioned "Combo" tees at his son's course, so I played our course in my mind, and proposed a Combo tee, which the GM, Pro, and owners accepted.  That was 7 years ago.

But, it is difficult to understand which tee to be on on each hole . . . I have lobbied to make it "White" for several years, which seems to be a no-brainer for everyone except the GM and owners.  If we could put down white tee markers, or even just spray paint one of the markers white (Combo) on each hole, it would help.

A lot of golfers see "Combo", and they want to play that yardage, but it takes a bit of explaining, so they default to the 6300 tee.

Of course, the young bucks play the 6700 or 7000 or 7300 tees, and a lot of them find out that's a mistake.

Funny, the group of mostly-older members that I play with, none of whom have any problem with "distance" like I do, play their own version of the Combo tee, because it's just more fun.  I would like to see the course switch to that version, put down white tee markers, and get rid of Combo, but that would take an act of Congress, and we know how hard it is to get Congress to act!!!

I think combo tees are a great idea. I’ve seen courses where the one or two furthest tee boxes are 700-800 yds longer than the next furthest tee. I normally play tees that are about 6100 or 6200 yards, but if there isn’t one, I’ll pick what’s closest to that yardage. I believe that every golf course should have at least one combo tee so players can pick their tee more accurately. Yesterday we played a blue/white combo that was a hair under 6200.

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Be careful what you wish for.

Because it is the end of the season, so corporate outings and golf junkets have stopped, we have gone from slow play to no play.

😁

&, speaking of combo tees, the member group I sometimes play with has their own version . . . they have "swapped" out some holes we play the forward tee on.  Some people don't know, but that's OK, and depending on how much it changes the yardage, you can rate an unrated set of tees following USGA rules, and still post scores.

https://misga.org/Guides/Mens Ratings adjustments from unrated tees.pdf

Note that if the unrated tees is not more than 54 yards different than a rated set, it does not change anything.

Which reminds me . . . a guy I used to play every week with hits me up for cheap golf when he's in the area (fortunately not very often).  The last time we played, which is the last time, he had a bad hole, blew up, threw his ball, threw his club, and muttered something about playing cobbled tees.

Now my only issue with him when he calls is coming up with a reason why I can't play when he wants. 

too hot, too cold, too windy, too wet, too dry, too don't want to

😏

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