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Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?


Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?  

124 members have voted

  1. 1. Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?



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(edited)

Given the number of rules changes in recent years, some which seem to wreak of wrecking golf tradition, and given the fact that landing in a divot is so happenstance, an unfortunate, undeserving stroke of bad luck, and given that there is precedent for not always having to play the ball where it lies, as it lies, it would not be surprising to see the rule being changed, and relief be granted when you land in a divot in the fairway.

Sorta like "playing it up", which normally means only in the fairway.  You don't get to "play it up" when you are not in the fairway because the fairway is considered to be a preferred lie.

It does seem to be unfair that two golfers hit the same drive, and they land two inches apart, and one's on the fairway and the other is in a "man-made hole" surrounded by fairway, an inch away, on all sides, and they are both considered fair lies.

- - - - - -

Now that I've voted, and for those who haven't, the results of the poll are not as one-sided as a casual observer to this discussion might deduce.  42.2% of a fairly sizable number of votes would support a rule change, and that's not reflected by the discussion.

Edited by Ole Duffer
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Just an FYI, mate.... I have been around this forum for quite a few years and have been involved in my fair share of debates. I have (or had) the habit of looking for controversial subjects to po

See below for an excerpt from a joint USGA and R&A report on topics not addressed in the 2019 modernization of the Rules. Apparently, the discussion on divot holes was very short, about the length

I would highly recommend purchasing and reading this booklet. It's super cheap (shipping will cost more than the booklet), and sheds light on why certain rules/penalties exist. Pr

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1 hour ago, ncates00 said:

Are you equally upset when a ball finds the rough in a worse condition than another ball that finds the rough, or when one ball hits a tree and bounces OB when another ball hits a tree and bounces onto the green?

No, not at all, just when it ends up in an unrepaired divot hole. If my ball hits a tree branch and bounces ob, I don't feel like a rule should be changed because that is the natural layout of the course. A divot hole is not a natural part of the course.

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(edited)
8 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

 A divot hole is not a natural part of the course.

A divot hole is one of the most natural things on a golf course. Every course has thousands of them, and they appear from day one of any course's existence. But, remarkably, they rarely impact play.  Are you suggesting that they are artificial? Like a bench or a ball washer. Come on - how many times do you want to lose this "argument".

Edited by Shorty
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1 minute ago, Shorty said:

A divot hole is one of the most natural things on a golf course.

Apparently golfers, playing golf, on a golf course is not natural.

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15 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

 

It does seem to be unfair that two golfers hit the same drive, and they land two inches apart, and one's on the fairway and the other is in a "man-made hole" surrounded by fairway, an inch away, on all sides, and they are both considered fair lies.

- - - - - -

 

Exactly - one of the beautiful nuances of our game. Like a skulled bunker shot that hits the flag and drops down a foot from the hole instead of going OB.

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2 minutes ago, Shorty said:

A divot hole is one of the most natural things on a golf course. Every course has thousands of them, and they appear from day one of any course's existence. But, remarkably, they rarely impact play.  Are you suggesting that they are artificial? Like a bench or a ball washer. Come on - how many times do you want to lose this "argument".

Maintenance/excavating are natural part of a course? You see them on all golf courses. Buzzzzz, you were rung up for a falsehood!

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(edited)
6 minutes ago, Shorty said:

 they rarely impact play. 

I don't have a preference one way or the other, but those words of yours suggests why 42.2% of the poll think the rule should be changed, that since divots "rarely impact play", and since they are purely happenstance, rather than an indication of skill, perhaps relief should be granted.

Who would have thought that it would be OK to use the flagstick to stop a putt from going to far?  Or that you could manicure every little imperfection that might be near the line of your putt?

😷

Edited by Ole Duffer
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2 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

Maintenance/excavating are natural part of a course? You see them on all golf courses. Buzzzzz, you were rung up for a falsehood!

Hitting golf balls off grass is a part of golf, amazingly. When a golf club hits grass it affects  the surface. 

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(edited)
16 minutes ago, Shorty said:

Exactly - one of the beautiful nuances of our game. Like a skulled bunker shot that hits the flag and drops down a foot from the hole instead of going OB.

Speaking of unfair, what seems unfair is to cherry-pick posts, take portions out of context, and just show the portion you think will make your point, without showing the rest of the post, which clearly shows that the person really doesn't have a preference one way or the other, just that he understands why 42.2% would be in favor of a rule change. 

Here's the rest:

Given the number of rules changes in recent years, some which seem to wreak of wrecking golf tradition, and given the fact that landing in a divot is so happenstance, an unfortunate, undeserving stroke of bad luck, and given that there is precedent for not always having to play the ball where it lies, as it lies, it would not be surprising to see the rule being changed, and relief be granted when you land in a divot in the fairway.

Sorta like "playing it up", which normally means only in the fairway.  You don't get to "play it up" when you are not in the fairway because the fairway is considered to be a preferred lie.

 

10 minutes ago, Shorty said:

Hitting golf balls off grass is a part of golf,

sorta the point some are trying to make.

😁

Edited by Ole Duffer
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20 minutes ago, Shorty said:

A divot hole is one of the most natural things on a golf course. Every course has thousands of them, and they appear from day one of any course's existence. But, remarkably, they rarely impact play.  Are you suggesting that they are artificial? Like a bench or a ball washer. Come on - how many times do you want to lose this "argument".

I agree, a divot is a natural part of the course. A golf course would not be a golf course if not played. A golfer takes a divot, so it is only reasonable to state that a divot is a natural occuring feature on the golf course. 

17 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

Maintenance/excavating are natural part of a course? You see them on all golf courses. Buzzzzz, you were rung up for a falsehood!

Routine maintenance is a common thing to play around. Sometimes you have to play a green with aeration holes. You have to play on days where the rough is high or mowed down. 

Excavation is a different thing, and usually considered ground under repair since it exceeds what would deem playable by normal standards. 

A divot doesn't come close to excavation on the golf course for maintenance purposes. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

A divot hole is not a natural part of the course.

It’s like you’re confusing land with golf course. How the f*** is a divot hole made by a golf club not a natural expectation to find on a golf course? It’s like saying holes aren’t a natural part of a dart board. FFS....stop.

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5 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

Given the number of rules changes in recent years, some which seem to wreak of wrecking golf tradition, and given the fact that landing in a divot is so happenstance, an unfortunate, undeserving stroke of bad luck, and given that there is precedent for not always having to play the ball where it lies, as it lies, it would not be surprising to see the rule being changed, and relief be granted when you land in a divot in the fairway.

Sorta like "playing it up", which normally means only in the fairway.  You don't get to "play it up" when you are not in the fairway because the fairway is considered to be a preferred lie.

I'm not really following the point in this comment.

  • Recent rule changes are wrecking golf tradition?
  • There is a precedent for not playing a ball as it lies?
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(edited)
26 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

 

Who would have thought that it would be OK to use the flagstick to stop a putt from going to far?  Or that you could manicure every little imperfection that might be near the line of your putt?

😷

Up until the 1960s it was perfectly legal to putt with the flag in.

gettyimages-515258802-612x612.jpg

Edited by Shorty
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An important fact, in my eyes, is that divots were being taken long before the first Rules were written in the 18th Century.  Pretty much all of the situations which now are the basis for free relief are due to things that have changed since the rules were first written.  Nothing that has happened in the last 275 years has changed the Ruling Bodies attitude towards divot holes, because divots, and their holes, are nothing new.  

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(edited)
8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

An important fact, in my eyes, is that divots were being taken long before the first Rules were written in the 18th Century.  Pretty much all of the situations which now are the basis for free relief are due to things that have changed since the rules were first written.  Nothing that has happened in the last 275 years has changed the Ruling Bodies attitude towards divot holes, because divots, and their holes, are nothing new.  

Probably true, but in my opinion, the reason it will never be acted on is because someone's "bad lie" is another player's ball being in a "divot".

Imagine being shortsided and having to hit over a bunker with crappy grass and sand everywhere and hoping for a better lie :-)

Say, bottom left in this picture. This is why it can't happen.

hochstein-design-bunkers-thin-grass-wilmington-municipal.jpg

Edited by Shorty
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Under the heading of "Don't Confuse Me With Facts", it appears the fact is that most golfers may want this rule changed:

LIVE POLL 1041 VOTES
Should golf's new rules provide relief from divots?
 
58%:  Get Relief
29%: Play It Where It Lies

Can we agree that landing in a divot in a perfectly manicured fairway is unfortunate?

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15 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

Can we agree that landing in a divot in a perfectly manicured fairway is unfortunate?

Sure. But it isn’t unfair.

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