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Should divots be considered ground under repair?

Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?  

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  1. 1. Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?



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I don't prefer playing out of a divot; but it rarely happens and is, I'd say, a skill one needs to have.  It doesn't take much effort to repair them either...sand or a few scrapes with your foot.

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While i think we can all agree that walking up to your ball and finding it in a divot can be very annoying its just part and parcel of the game. Sometimes lady luck is against you and sometimes she isn't.

I have had the odd time, playing in the English weather, where i have landed in a fresh divot and had a better lie than i would have had landing on the very soggy turf. Other times it's royally screwed me, but as they say "thems the breaks".

Making divots GUR would, in my opinion, be too difficult to enforce effectively.

People just need to repair/replace their divots more often. I they did that then this topic probably wouldnt have existed.

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You know it occurs to me that how you feel about this topic could be one of those tests that speak to your personality and the way you view rules and logic and structure and luck and stuff.

I've watched a few episodes of the TV show Bull and he's a trial scientist, so he's always asking questions like "if a neighbor's dog poops in your yard and the neighbor sees it but doesn't have a baggie on it, and says he'll get it in a few hours, how do you feel about that?" as a way of sussing out how the juror is likely to be persuaded re: big pharma or something…

I think that those who see this issue differently would likely fit into two different camps re: some other issues, maybe even politics, etc.

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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

You know it occurs to me that how you feel about this topic could be one of those tests that speak to your personality and the way you view rules and logic and structure and luck and stuff.

I've watched a few episodes of the TV show Bull and he's a trial scientist, so he's always asking questions like "if a neighbor's dog poops in your yard and the neighbor sees it but doesn't have a baggie on it, and says he'll get it in a few hours, how do you feel about that?" as a way of sussing out how the juror is likely to be persuaded re: big pharma or something…

I think that those who see this issue differently would likely fit into two different camps re: some other issues, maybe even politics, etc.

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Its kind of like "THEY should make this right" as opposed to "I need to find a way to get through this".  

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Well these are the words I have heard many times in the way of an explanation. I respectfully disagree. These are just symanticsbut the USGA and R&A have the final word

The point I was trying to make when I first posted the question about divots was if divots aren’t ground under repair why do we repair them? I don’t mean replacing the sod in the divot. I’m talking about maintenance crews filling them with sand & seed or players that have sand & seed on their carts filling the divot. Either it’s GUR or it isn’t. 

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59 minutes ago, JLC4GLF said:

The point I was trying to make when I first posted the question about divots was if divots aren’t ground under repair why do we repair them?  

The same reason you (hopefully) repair your ball marks on the green even though ball marks aren't ground under repair.

It's about respecting the course and trying to leave it in an equal or better place than you found it.

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25 minutes ago, klineka said:

The same reason you (hopefully) repair your ball marks on the green even though ball marks aren't ground under repair.

Ditto bunkers. Teeing grounds. And everything else on a course that gets maintenance.

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3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Its kind of like "THEY should make this right" as opposed to "I need to find a way to get through this".  

Well - if we're going to pull this into a character caricature direction...... I'll put out a data point.  I'm very Libertarian.  For divots:

1 - If I'm all alone or casually with someone, I'll play however damn well I feel.  Somedays I'll hit from it (serious days), others I won't sporadically (practice days).  My reasons are my own.

2 - If I'm competing or betting or recording a handicap (all of which I avoid like the plague), I'll follow the rules explicitly.

I think it matches, personal freedom where it doesn't hurt or would impact another.  Diligence in following a contract when relating to others.

 

Can I assume the liberals will want to force others to follow the arbitrary rules at all times, unless they can force someone else to take their penalties?

And the conservative will follow the rules when someone is watching and thinks watches and matching shoes to belts is a good idea?

Greenies simply think anyone that takes a divot is Satan....Grass clumps are people too.

😛

Edited by rehmwa

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10 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

1 - If I'm all alone or casually with someone, I'll play however damn well I feel.  Somedays I'll hit from it (serious days), others I won't sporadically (practice days).  My reasons are my own.

2 - If I'm competing or betting or recording a handicap (all of which I avoid like the plague), I'll follow the rules explicitly.

That's not the point I was making at all. I was saying that how you feel about whether divot holes should be GUR is what provides insight, not whether you follow the rules in a competition.

But that's not the topic here, so, it was just an aside. Not a shift to the topic.

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Dude I thought we were just discussing divot holes. Now you guys got me questioning my political views and self worth and shit 😟

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5 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Dude I thought we were just discussing divot holes. Now you guys got me questioning my political views and self worth and shit 😟

My digression, I cheerfully withdraw the mock stereotypes.  (Practice days - I'll hit from divots sometimes.  Simply because I can learn from it.)

Edited by rehmwa

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1 minute ago, CaseyD said:

I didn’t say they were wrong 🤭😂

Then, sir, I'd say your self worth is doing fine  🥃

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1 hour ago, klineka said:

The same reason you (hopefully) repair your ball marks on the green even though ball marks aren't ground under repair.

It's about respecting the course and trying to leave it in an equal or better place than you found it.

This.  Fixing divots, pitch marks, etc is like regular car maintenance.  Necessary, ordinary, and an expected part of the game if you give a damn.  So if you have to play out of one, that's life.

Divots in the fairway are expected.  A half bulldozed patch the size of a small yard is not.  Grounds under repair is like insurance: covers the unexpected.

Edited by Foot Wedge
Forgot a sentence

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The problem is that people think of the "fairway" as if it's some mystical land where you're guaranteed a good lie.

Fairways are just an area of shorter grass, kept that way so that hitting straight tee shots presents an advantage (and, for other strategic reasons).  Having your ball roll into a divot hole in the fairway is no different than having it roll up against a tree root in the rough.

"Play it as it lies, except in the fairway, where you're guaranteed a good lie" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

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On 11/8/2013 at 1:23 PM, Foursum Golf said:

I have heard people say that sand-filled divots should be considered ground under repair. Thoughts?

Yes.

I wish that they'd addressed this in the new rule changes for 2019.

I always thought you should get relief from fairway divots.

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7 hours ago, BallMarker said:

I wish that they'd addressed this in the new rule changes for 2019. I always thought you should get relief from fairway divots.

Did you read any of the rest of the topic?

Because you must not have. You didn't even bother to attempt to make a case for your feelings.

DIvot holes on a golf course are not an "abnormal ground condition."

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I think this is called, or used to be called, the "rub of the green". Things don't always turn out perfectly, even when you hit it where you want to. 

I kind of fall into rehmwa's camp. In a casual round I may move the ball, usually to the grass behind the divot like you would do on a practice tee. In a serious or sanctioned round, play it as it lies. I played in a local tourney this past August when an approach shot wound up in a hole! It was not a divot nor a sprinkler. It didn't appear to be a drain or made by a burrowing animal. I hacked it out of there and moved the ball maybe 2 feet! Just my lousy luck, and it definitely cost me a stroke. 

It also just occurred to me that if divots were GUR who would take the spray paint and make all the lines around every single divot in the fairway!😀

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