Jump to content
IGNORED

Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?


Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?  

123 members have voted

  1. 1. Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?



Recommended Posts

I've heard this rule suggested over and over again. I'm interested to hear what you all think. Should free drops be allowed from fairway divots? What about pick clean and place from a fairway divot? 


Is golf in need of a rules change? Paige Spiranac believes so after watching the final round of the Arnold Palmer Invitational on Sunday. On the final hole of the tournament, Lee Westwood smoked his drive down the fairway...

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Just an FYI, mate.... I have been around this forum for quite a few years and have been involved in my fair share of debates. I have (or had) the habit of looking for controversial subjects to po

See below for an excerpt from a joint USGA and R&A report on topics not addressed in the 2019 modernization of the Rules. Apparently, the discussion on divot holes was very short, about the length

I would highly recommend purchasing and reading this booklet. It's super cheap (shipping will cost more than the booklet), and sheds light on why certain rules/penalties exist. Pr

Posted Images

My answer is no. I agree that it sucks when it happens, but I like the "play the course as you find it" concept.

I don't have a lot of friends who play golf, but a few of them who play more frequently make up a rule for free drops from fairway divots. Their rationale is that they rarely hit in the fairway, so when the do, they shouldn't be penalized by a random bad lie. They don't keep handicaps, and only play skins matches amongst themselves, so as far as I am concerned, they can make up whatever rules they want.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
41 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I've heard this rule suggested over and over again. I'm interested to hear what you all think. Should free drops be allowed from fairway divots? What about pick clean and place from a fairway divot? 


Is golf in need of a rules change? Paige Spiranac believes so after watching the final round of the Arnold Palmer Invitational on Sunday. On the final hole of the tournament, Lee Westwood smoked his drive down the fairway...

44 pages later, I’m still a hard no.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

45 minutes ago, iacas said:

44 pages later, I’m still a hard no.

Sorry, didn't realize there was 40 something pages on this.

I vote no also. 

I've always thought it was weird to even suggest that it should be. I mean where does it all end? What's next? If a ball takes an odd bounce are we going to move it to "where it would have been if not for the odd bounce?"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

 No. Lee managed to make the GIR and two putt. Others had no divot to deal with and had rock ricochets. It’s golf. Play the ball as you find it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

I'll pile on, another no.  And writer apparently doesn't realize that the PGA Tour doesn't write its own Rules.

Quote

What do you think – should the PGA Tour change the rule?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

13 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

And writer apparently doesn't realize that the PGA Tour doesn't write its own Rules.

The article seems like a click-baity justification to publish a photo of Paige Spiranac. I doubt the author even cares about getting details correct, and likely doesn't know the details anyways. I hate "articles" that just rehash a bunch of tweets.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

48 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

The article seems like a click-baity justification to publish a photo of Paige Spiranac. I doubt the author even cares about getting details correct, and likely doesn't know the details anyways. I hate "articles" that just rehash a bunch of tweets.

That's a bingo!

bingo.gif.ef5158eb01a8fc4d08424dc6017268aa.gif

  • Like 1
  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • iacas changed the title to Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?

Just no.  It hasn't happened that often to me.  When it has, I look at the ball, and come to the conclusion that it just means I have to focus, and make sure I get the ball first, without much room for error.  Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.  But that's normal for me anyway!  The most recent that I hit went well, and and a guy I was playing with even remarked on how good the shot was.  It's just another challenge.  Like the one tree that always gets in the way!

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, jlbos83 said:

  It's just another challenge.  Like the one tree that always gets in the way!

You are fortunate. Most trees seek to get in my way.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of play it as it lies.  Unfortunately I am not very good at hitting off funny lies, but it is better to be challenged and play these lies than always take a good lie.  In my home course we play 1, 1 and 2 picks on a par 3, 4 and 5 accordingly.  I try to avoid the picks as much as possible.  Two reasons for the picks.  The course grass is still not very good. And a huge chunk of the course is on an old paddy field and we have land crabs which dig up through the surface and of course you get these wonderful crab holes, some of which are occasionally big enough to swallow a ball🤫

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Rulesman said:

You are fortunate. Most trees seek to get in my way.

There are not a lot of trees that should be a problem on some of the courses I play.  I think that there is one that follows me around!

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 3/8/2021 at 11:36 AM, Darkfrog said:

My answer is no. I agree that it sucks when it happens, but I like the "play the course as you find it" concept.

I am truly sorry, but I have to disagree with you. JMO, but it could be said about any situation the ball happens upon, like a sprinkler head, excavation by maintenance, fairway markers, etc, play it as it lies? I don't know why, in a game with very strict rules that promote fairness, how some think an unrepaired fairway divot is a fair situation. Even a repaired divot. I understand the debate about 'what is a legit divot and what isn't, but I think that can be easily worked out. After all, we rely on honesty for all other rules of golf, why not this? I am a definite yes, there should be allowance.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

13 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

it could be said about any situation the ball happens upon, like a sprinkler head, excavation by maintenance, fairway markers, etc, play it as it lies?

I'm not a rules expert by any means, but I'm pretty sure the rules have categorizations that take these things into account. From "The Prinicples Behind the Rules of Golf", the first great principle of golf is "play the course as you find it". In this booklet it describes how rules for obstructions and abnormal ground conditions are applied to this concept.

Rules experts feel free to correct/elaborate.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

I am truly sorry, but I have to disagree with you. JMO, but it could be said about any situation the ball happens upon, like a sprinkler head, excavation by maintenance, fairway markers, etc, play it as it lies? I don't know why, in a game with very strict rules that promote fairness, how some think an unrepaired fairway divot is a fair situation.

Two things @Billy Z:

  • You play the course as you find it, unless you're prevented from doing so. A sprinkler head is not remotely in the same category as a divot hole. The former could cause damage, injury, expenses, etc. The former is clearly defined. It's somewhat unexpected, too - we play golf from grass, not hard plastic or metal surfaces.
  • How is everyone playing under the same rules (no relief from divot holes) "unfair?" And if you hit your ball toward the trees, but it hits a tree and bounced into the fairway, should you have to put it in the rough? Why not? That's not "fair" using your definition of the word, is it?
1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

Even a repaired divot. I understand the debate about 'what is a legit divot and what isn't, but I think that can be easily worked out. After all, we rely on honesty for all other rules of golf, why not this? I am a definite yes, there should be allowance.

Please show us how you can "easily" work that out, to the point where something like 95/100 people would all agree pretty straightforwardly that the divot hole is a divot hole.

Because if you can define when a divot hole begins and ceases to be a divot hole, you'll be the first one to ever do it.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

53 minutes ago, iacas said:

Two things @Billy Z:

  • You play the course as you find it, unless you're prevented from doing so. A sprinkler head is not remotely in the same category as a divot hole. The former could cause damage, injury, expenses, etc. The former is clearly defined. It's somewhat unexpected, too - we play golf from grass, not hard plastic or metal surfaces.
  • How is everyone playing under the same rules (no relief from divot holes) "unfair?" And if you hit your ball toward the trees, but it hits a tree and bounced into the fairway, should you have to put it in the rough? Why not? That's not "fair" using your definition of the word, is it?

Please show us how you can "easily" work that out, to the point where something like 95/100 people would all agree pretty straightforwardly that the divot hole is a divot hole.

Because if you can define when a divot hole begins and ceases to be a divot hole, you'll be the first one to ever do it.

Mankind puts a man on the moon, warp-speed miraculously gets a vaccine out to the people in a time frame thought impossible, architectural feats beyond imagination, but mankind is stymied but defining what is and is not a divot? lol. Trust me, we can figure it out!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
4 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

Mankind puts a man on the moon, warp-speed miraculously gets a vaccine out to the people in a time frame thought impossible, architectural feats beyond imagination, but mankind is stymied but defining what is and is not a divot? lol. Trust me, we can figure it out!

Then go for it. Smarter people than you or I have tried, and failed.

You're simply not going to come up with a definition that can be quick to apply and universally agreed upon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Then go for it. Smarter people than you or I have tried, and failed.

You're simply not going to come up with a definition that can be quick to apply and universally agreed upon.

Well, part of the issue with change is the fear of the rule change itself, in this case, whether it can be accomplished or not. If I have a say, I would say this: 2021 is the year we test out a new rule of golf, a free drop from a fairway divot. This divot is defined as any irregularity that has been caused by a previous shot in the fairway that is detectable. If it is deemed your ball is in a fairway divot, proceed as if it is a lift, clean and place situation, setting the ball 6 inches from the divot.

Now this is a rough description of the rule, but something like this would be good for the game.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    Whoop
    SuperSpeed
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo and the code "iacasjun21" for 10% off SuperSpeed.
  • Posts

    • Day 121.  While I plan to do more practice later today, I've already done some.  I hit a dozen full swings (two slow practice swings, focusing on a setup priority piece at setup and my better backswing whose picture changed recently).  6-iron, indoors, off a mat, into the net, real balls.  I also hit about two dozen chip shots (less than quarter) with my new-to-me 54 degree sand wedge.  I plan to do more work later, but I'm not sure I'll have time to post later, so I wanted to make sure I got the daily challenge part in at least. 
    • The only times I really get ticked about hitting a third shot is if I'm still closer to the tee box than I am the green.
    • Day 80 (6/24/21) -   Chipping and Putting Practice - spent about 20 minutes on the practice green with my 58* wedge spot chipping to a target (my folded golf towel) 2,3 and 4 paces from the edge of the green, then hit 3 chips each to various holes trying to get the ball to within 4 feet of the hole (which I did about half the time). Then practiced lag putting, 3 balls each to different holes trying to get within 4 feet of the hole, which I did around 2/3s of the time.  Range practice - 9-3 swings using my 7 and 8 iron and a noodle station; small bucket. Focused on keeping the club face facing the ground on the downswing and making good contact.
    • Best part about this pit stop is that they did more than the pit stops in the videos above. Not only did they change the tires, they also adjusted the front wing at the same time on both sides. All in under 2 seconds still.
    • If it was about skill, and if the green reading books made bad putters better than they otherwise would perform, we'd see the worst putters on tour being closer to the best putters because there is less of a skill gap between the two. Instead we see that the gap between the best and the worst at putting has only grown larger since the widespread introduction of green reading books. This means they have not had any measurable impact on a player's ability to putt well, because it isn't allowing the worst putters on tour to keep up with the best like you would see if some part of the game took less skill suddenly. I ignored the skill issue because claiming it's a matter of skill is patently ridiculous, and provably false. They can say whatever they like, doesn't mean a word of it is true.
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. benharris
      benharris
      (29 years old)
    2. Erik Tedfelt
      Erik Tedfelt
      (26 years old)
    3. ForcedCarry21
      ForcedCarry21
      (30 years old)
    4. hlan
      hlan
      (36 years old)
    5. Hookman
      Hookman
      (29 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...