Provisional, sorry.

[madolive3]

I know it's been beaten to death.  Par 4

I slice a Tee shot OB, across a road into a landscaped unfenced yard. I saw the ball land in a bush next to a big rock. So I declare and take my Provisional, hook it out about 200 next to a tree. I hit my hybrid up just short of the green off to the right rough. As we are walking up to the green I find my original ball, TF Gamer with green dots on all sides, no mistake, it is my first ball. Must have bounced off the rock back in play. Original ball was about forty yards short of where my second provisional shot landed. I played my original ball and picked up my provisional.

There was some doubt with one of our foursome about the rule. I did not play my provisional closer to the green, or past my original ball just because it landed closer to the green, I hit the ball 170 yards behind where my original lay. I am correct?

[mvmac]

b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play
The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

If the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play, under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball, that has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency ( Rule 18-1 ), or is in an obstruction ( Rule 24-3 ) or an abnormal ground condition ( Rule 25-1c ), the player may proceed under the applicable Rule.

[Fourputt]

I know it's been beaten to death.  Par 4

I slice a Tee shot OB, across a road into a landscaped unfenced yard. I saw the ball land in a bush next to a big rock. So I declare and take my Provisional, hook it out about 200 next to a tree. I hit my hybrid up just short of the green off to the right rough. As we are walking up to the green I find my original ball, TF Gamer with green dots on all sides, no mistake, it is my first ball. Must have bounced off the rock back in play. Original ball was about forty yards short of where my second provisional shot landed. I played my original ball and picked up my provisional.

There was some doubt with one of our foursome about the rule. I did not play my provisional closer to the green, or past my original ball just because it landed closer to the green, I hit the ball 170 yards behind where my original lay. I am correct?

If you played your second stroke with the provisional from a point at or beyond where the original ball was thought to be , then it became the ball in play and the original ball is lost.  It doesn't matter that you later find the original ball ahead of that point.  Under the rules, you would have played a wrong ball, incurred a two stroke penalty and should have corrected the mistake before playing from the next tee.  In a competition you would have been disqualified.  It all depends on where your original ball was thought to be.

b. Stroke Play

If a competitor makes a stroke or strokes at a wrong ball, he incurs a penalty of two strokes.

The competitor must correct his mistake by playing the correct ball or by proceeding under the Rules. If he fails to correct his mistake before making astroke on the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, fails to declare his intention to correct his mistake before leaving the putting green, he is disqualified.

Strokes made by a competitor with a wrong ball do not count in his score. If the wrong ball belongs to another competitor, its owner must place a ball on the spot from which the wrong ball was first played.

[Rulesman]

A word of warning. If the original ball has gone through the back of the green and the provisional is short of the green, the words in the rule must be read literally.

If he makes a stroke with the provisional from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance.

So, if the original is somewhere beyond the green, check it out before you play the provisional again.

[David in FL]

A word of warning. If the original ball has gone through the back of the green and the provisional is short of the green, the words in the rule must be read literally.

If he makes a stroke with the provisional from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance.

So, if the original is somewhere beyond the green, check it out before you play the provisional again.

I hadn't thought of that specific situation.......interesting.  Thanks!

[dsc123]

hmm, sounds like you should always remember to add "but it also could have kicked out and landed in the hole" when thinking about where you possibly lost ball may be.

[David in FL]

hmm, sounds like you should always remember to add "but it also could have kicked out and landed in the hole" when thinking about where you possibly lost ball may be.

Not necessarily.  If that happened the ball wouldn't be lost, it would have been holed......whether you knew it at the time or not.  Anything done with the provisional subsequent to having holed out would be irrelevant.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123

hmm, sounds like you should always remember to add "but it also could have kicked out and landed in the hole" when thinking about where you possibly lost ball may be.

Not necessarily.  If that happened the ball wouldn't be lost, it would have been holed......whether you knew it at the time or not.  Anything done with the provisional subsequent to having holed out would be irrelevant.

I'm not sure that this is true.  I repeat:

b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the holethan that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes theball in playunder penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

When the rule says "where the original ball is likely to be" it doesn't mean anywhere on the golf course.  If you don't feel that the original ball is likely to be in the hole but it is likely to be elsewhere but a search doesn't find it, and you play a second stroke with the provisional ball from where you do feel is a likely distance for the original to have been, then you have abandoned the original ball.  Finding it later in the hole is then irrelevant, or at least that's how I read the rule.

I could be wrong, as you are correct in that holing the ball does mean that the play of the hole is over, so I'm not going to argue my point too rigidly, pending further comment.

[dsc123]

I was just kidding that you should assume that ball is likely to be further down the course so you get a little more leeway.

[Ernest Jones]

[QUOTE name="David in FL" url="/t/71108/provisional-sorry#post_920505"]   [QUOTE name="dsc123" url="/t/71108/provisional-sorry#post_920442"]   hmm, sounds like you should always remember to add "but it also could have kicked out and landed in the hole" when thinking about where you possibly lost ball may be. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily.  If that happened the ball wouldn't be lost, it would have been holed......whether you knew it at the time or not.  Anything done with the provisional subsequent to having holed out would be irrelevant. [/QUOTE] I'm not sure that this is true.  I repeat:  [QUOTE]

b . When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1 ).

[/QUOTE] When the rule says "where the original ball is likely to be" it doesn't mean anywhere on the golf course.  If you don't feel that the original ball is likely to be in the hole but it is likely to be elsewhere but a search doesn't find it, and you play a second stroke with the provisional ball from where you do feel is a likely distance for the original to have been, then you have abandoned the original ball.  Finding it later in the hole is then irrelevant, or at least that's how I read the rule. I could be wrong, as you are correct in that holing the ball does mean that the play of the hole is over, so I'm not going to argue my point too rigidly, pending further comment.

Looking forward to hearing more about this. I feel that if the ball has been holed it renders all other subsequence actions as null. Curious to know what the proper ruling is.

[David in FL]

Looking forward to hearing more about this. I feel that if the ball has been holed it renders all other subsequence actions as null. Curious to know what the proper ruling is.

I'm sticking to my interpretation on this one.  There is no requirement to actually know that the ball has been holed for it to have been so.....  Once holed, the hole is over for that competitor.

[Ernest Jones]

[QUOTE name="Ernest Jones" url="/t/71108/provisional-sorry#post_920539"] Looking forward to hearing more about this. I feel that if the ball has been holed it renders all other subsequence actions as null. Curious to know what the proper ruling is.[/QUOTE] I'm sticking to my interpretation on this one.  There is no requirement to actually know that the ball has been holed for it to have been so.....  Once holed, the hole is over for that competitor.

That's my feeling too.

[Rulesman]

1-1/3

Player Discovers Original Ball in Hole after Searching Five Minutes And then Continuing Play with Provisional Ball

Q. At a par-3 hole, a player, believing his original ball may be lost, plays a provisional ball. He searches five minutes for the original ball and then plays the provisional ball onto the green. At that point, the original ball is found in the hole. What is the ruling?

A. The player's score is 1. The play of the hole was completed when the player holed the original ball (Rule 1-1 ).

[Fourputt]

1-1/3

Player Discovers Original Ball in Hole after Searching Five Minutes And then Continuing Play with Provisional Ball

Q.At a par-3 hole, a player, believing his original ball may be lost, plays a provisional ball. He searches five minutes for the original ball and then plays the provisional ball onto the green. At that point, the original ball is found in the hole. What is the ruling?

A.The player's score is 1. The play of the hole was completed when the player holed the original ball (Rule 1-1).

I knew that there was a decision about this, but I ran out of time to look for it earlier.  Thanks RM.

[David in FL]

Gotta admit, I was too lazy to even look. Seemed pretty straight forward, but then again, thinking like that has gotten me in trouble before!