Playing a pro

[iHack]

Playing a pro in match play. Put the nerves aside. Would we really stand a chance against a pro. I heard from someone Phil is a +6 I'm a 9. So figure at my home course which is 6850 from the tips he is giving me not even a stroke a hole. I don't think it would even be close. Just a random conversation my friends and I have figured I would share with the community. Take your home course your handicap see what they would be giving you and laugh about how absurd the thought of playing them is. Again this is even if you cou ld muster together the nerves to swing the club :~(

[Fairway_CY]

No chance for me... and I honestly believe that.  I'd get a stroke a hole.  Figuring most tour pro's would play something like 5 iron - wedge to the par 4's and 3 wood - 9 iron to the par 5's... I'd probably be done by around the 11th or 12th hole.  And that's providing I'm able to make a par here and there for net birdie and they only manage a par.

*shrug*

CY

[mdl]

The handicap system should in theory make up the difference.  I could imagine it being at least marginally close (ie, not ending before say the 15th hole) if I played an excellent round (for me).  I'd get 14 strokes vs. a +6.  Say I shoot a 78 on a course set up for us amateurs where the pro probably shoots what, 64-66?  That's at least 6 birdies, maybe 8 (or 9 with a random freak bogey from the pro thrown in).  But if I shoot 78 I'm probably doing something like 11 pars, 1 birdie, 5 bogeys, and 1 double.  Say my birdie and 2 of my pars were on the 4 holes I didn't get strokes.  Then I've got 10 net birdies.  That might make it semi-close?

Of course, more likely I'm nervous and tight, play what would have been a 90+, and lose on the 11th hole...

[LuciusWooding]

Never play a pro off scratch. But I don't think I would get beaten too badly if I got about 18-20 strokes and they were playing off +4 or +6. I get my strokes for a reason, so I play my normal game and all the pressure is on him.  Any birdies and you ensure you win the hole, and homefield advantage is a big deal. Plus it's match play, so you don't really get hurt by bad holes. You could get strokes on harder holes that are really impossible for them to overcome. And homefield advantage is a big deal, there's a reason some guys dominate a tourney for several years, so you can use your course knowledge. And if you can hit greens in regulation with handicap strokes in your favor, it requires them to make long putts on unfamiliar greens. Plus you can click a camera shutter during their backswing and shout "Mashed Potatoes" as much as you want.

[flopster]

LOL I play alongside a +4 pro at least once a month, I shot a nice 78 my index had me at 8 course hdcp so net 70, he shoots 63 net 67, they can shoot at their index way more consistent than we can, the handicap system IMO is not set up fairly enough for that much talent disparity, I don't know the answer but these guys usually walk away with money at all our matches. I also think Phil is better than +6 probably closer to +9.

[jsgolfer]

LOL I play alongside a +4 pro at least once a month, I shot a nice 78 my index had me at 8 course hdcp so net 70, he shoots 63 net 67, they can shoot at their index way more consistent than we can, the handicap system IMO is not set up fairly enough for that much talent disparity, I don't know the answer but these guys usually walk away with money at all our matches. I also think Phil is better than +6 probably closer to +9.

How would you have fared in a Match Play format?

[flopster]

How would you have fared in a Match Play format?

Not sure, but I think he probably would have edged me,if I remember correctly he shot a 29 on the front 9 to my 38.

[mvmac]

Playing a pro in match play. Put the nerves aside. Would we really stand a chance against a pro. I heard from someone Phil is a +6 I'm a 9. So figure at my home course which is 6850 from the tips he is giving me not even a stroke a hole. I don't think it would even be close.

Well with match play you at least have a chance, with medal play not so much.  On a "normal" course those guys are going to be making a lot of birdies, at least 5-6, means you have to make a lot of net pars to tie him, can be tough.

@David in FL just played with Graeme McDowell, maybe he can give us his take.

[David in FL]

Well with match play you at least have a chance, with medal play not so much.  On a "normal" course those guys are going to be making a lot of birdies, at least 5-6, means you have to make a lot of net pars to tie him, can be tough.

@David in FL just played with Graeme McDowell, maybe he can give us his take.

I just went back and looked at my card.  Match play, he beat me 5 and 4.  Now.....I didn't play well, and afterwards, his wife admitted to me that he told her that he played well and was pleased he made a good showing for us, but still, that's 5 and 4 while giving 12 strokes to a 6 hcp.  That's a good old fashioned ass whipping by anyone's standards!

I agree......match play gives you a chance.  I play with 2 guys that play off of honest scratch.  We always play full hcp, match play.  If they play well they win, if I play well I win.  But it seems that they "play well" a little more often than I do.  Imagine that......

Against a tour pro, I'll take my 12-14 strokes and go for it, but I think I get beat like a drum more often than not.

[boogielicious]

In addition, Pro players are used to competition as a matter of routine.  The mental edge would also be a factor.

[Golfingdad]

Well with match play you at least have a chance, with medal play not so much.  On a "normal" course those guys are going to be making a lot of birdies, at least 5-6, means you have to make a lot of net pars to tie him, can be tough.

@David in FL just played with Graeme McDowell, maybe he can give us his take.

I just went back and looked at my card.  Match play, he beat me 5 and 4.  Now.....I didn't play well, and afterwards, his wife admitted to me that he told her that he played well and was pleased he made a good showing for us, but still, that's 5 and 4 while giving 12 strokes to a 6 hcp.  That's a good old fashioned ass whipping by anyone's standards!

I agree......match play gives you a chance.  I play with 2 guys that play off of honest scratch.  We always play full hcp, match play.  If they play well they win, if I play well I win.  But it seems that they "play well" a little more often than I do.  Imagine that......

Against a tour pro, I'll take my 12-14 strokes and go for it, but I think I get beat like a drum more often than not.

Maybe I'm off here, but I think the reason why it's such a big disparity is because of the way the formula measures "potential" in us amateurs.  It allows us to suck 50% of the time and still represent an "X" handicap.  Pros (save for enigmas like John Daly) rarely "suck."

I feel like if you could modify the handicap system slightly, such that you use ALL 20 of your recent scores, not just the best 10, versus all 20 of the pros recent scores, then, perhaps, you'd have something close to resembling a "fair" match.

My cap would go up from 8 to, probably, something like 12 or 13, whereas (I imagine) a pro's would go from +6 to +3

[WUTiger]

I'm a fairly erratic player - even within a round. One day last summer, I had six pars and didn't break 90.

I could see myself winning 2 UP - or losing 6-and-5 - all depending on how stable my long clubs were that day.

[iHack]

It a fun discussion. The biggest thing to me is playing them at my home course there is 2 par 5 that would give them a putt at eagle and 2 par 4 that would prob give them 1 putt at eagle. I feel there distance just puts me at big disadvantage. But that's cool davidfl got to play with graham.

[Golfingdad]

I'm a fairly erratic player - even within a round. One day last summer, I had six pars and didn't break 90.

I could see myself winning 2 UP - or losing 6-and-5 - all depending on how stable my long clubs were that day.

If I played a pro, I think I'd manage to figure out a way to lose 8 and 10.

[David in FL]

Maybe I'm off here, but I think the reason why it's such a big disparity is because of the way the formula measures "potential" in us amateurs.  It allows us to suck 50% of the time and still represent an "X" handicap.  Pros (save for enigmas like John Daly) rarely "suck." I feel like if you could modify the handicap system slightly, such that you use ALL 20 of your recent scores, not just the best 10, versus all 20 of the pros recent scores, then, perhaps, you'd have something close to resembling a "fair" match. My cap would go up from 8 to, probably, something like 12 or 13, whereas (I imagine) a pro's would go from +6 to +3

But then you wouldn't really be measuring potential. You'd just be reporting your relatively recent average......and you're right. The disparity between high hcps and low (not just pros) would be huge because of the huge difference in consistency between the two.

[flopster]

Well tomorrow I'm paired in the first group with one of the local pro's  who fluctuates between +3 - +5 and I'll see if I can keep track of how I will do in match play against him. So the way it should work will be I get a stroke on the 6 toughest holes and he's going to have to add a stroke on at least holes 16,17,18 or do I go the other way and give me strokes on 7,8,9 not sure how match play works with handicaps in + ranges.

[David in FL]

You get strokes on hcp holes 1-9. That's a GOOD player. I assume he's a tour pro? Most teaching pros just don't have nearly enough time to play to maintain that level of play.

[hopefulhacker]

Maybe I'm off here, but I think the reason why it's such a big disparity is because of the way the formula measures "potential" in us amateurs.  It allows us to suck 50% of the time and still represent an "X" handicap.  Pros (save for enigmas like John Daly) rarely "suck."

I feel like if you could modify the handicap system slightly, such that you use ALL 20 of your recent scores, not just the best 10, versus all 20 of the pros recent scores, then, perhaps, you'd have something close to resembling a "fair" match.

My cap would go up from 8 to, probably, something like 12 or 13, whereas (I imagine) a pro's would go from +6 to +3

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Golfingdad apart for the change in the Pro's HC.

I think the variance would be a lot less.

Depending on what type of Pro we are talking about as well, a Tour Pro's variance would be minimal.

What would be the average for a teaching Pro over there guys? +2, +3?

I'm laughing at the OP putting a +6 on Phil M (sorry OP)

He may have been +6 upon turning pro but he's gained a few shots since then!

If people are saying that a Teaching Pro is varying between +3 and +5 then you might as well slap a double digit + figure on a Touring Pro.

No way is Phil a +6.

My HC is based on average scores moreso than my potential score so I'd have a little edge over most on here, but even at that, I'd count my self very lucky to get to the 14th tee against a touring pro at my home course.