• Announcements

    • iacas

      Introducing TST "Clubs!"   08/28/2017

      No, we're not getting into the equipment business, but we do have "clubs" here on TST now. Groups. Check them out here:
Sign in to follow this  
JPK1988

Another Question about the Hand Line (with PICS)

Recommended Posts

JPK1988    2

I too have a question about the hand line, especially as it comes to adress vs. impact.

As of late I've been hitting most iron shots on the toe side of center (maybe a half a ball).  I'm almost certain it has to do with steepening the shaft.... (THE NEON GREEN LINE IS AN OVERLAY OF THE SHAFT ANGLE AT SETUP)..

Red line is representative of the HAND LINE AT ADRESS.  I've watched a ton of swings on YouTube, and EVERY pro is returning the hands to that line or just fractionally past it (like Rory above).  My hands though are way out beyond it and much higher.

Every thing about that screams Sh*nk.. but I've read the shaft steepening is compensating move, and actually causes to hits.

So... How the HELL do you keep your hands at or inside that line? Super tough concept for me to grasp, especially battling toe contact??  It seems id be even further away from the center of the clubface..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

boil3rmak3r    22
Thanks for posting this, JPK. I struggle with the same thing (although my misses are toward the heel). I can't wait to see the responses. For me, it feels like I need to work on my right knee action and toe/heel weight distribution on the downswing. On my downswing, my right knee moves much more toward the ball line than I see pros do. I think this may be getting my weight too much toward the toes of my feet. Mike referenced a 5SK video a few days ago with a "toes up" drill that I felt would be a great drill for me. I am a million miles away from knowing how to swing properly, so my thoughts may be WAY off. I just thought I'd post this to let you know that I'm right there with you in regards to this problem...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dsc123    133

When I got fitted for clubs I expected to be told that I needed a flatter lie because my toe was up a bit at address.  I was surprised that I needed them more upright because I basically do the same as you and come into impact with my hands a little higher.  Smarter people on here can tell you if its a swing flaw or not, but it might just be a fitting issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

JPK1988    2

The wierd thing is to begin last season I was missing with shanks too...and I fixed it by trying to keep the right knee and hip from "crashing toward the ball" my instructor called it.  I don't know if this new toe miss is an over compensation, but I have a feeling its all inter-related..curious as well to see what people think.

I think it may be a combo of weight distribution, and shallowness/steepness of the downswing plane to make up for that movement.

hmmm? :loco:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

boogielicious    1,159

I too have a question about the hand line, especially as it comes to adress vs. impact.

As of late I've been hitting most iron shots on the toe side of center (maybe a half a ball).  I'm almost certain it has to do with steepening the shaft.... (THE NEON GREEN LINE IS AN OVERLAY OF THE SHAFT ANGLE AT SETUP)..

Red line is representative of the HAND LINE AT ADRESS.  I've watched a ton of swings on YouTube, and EVERY pro is returning the hands to that line or just fractionally past it (like Rory above).  My hands though are way out beyond it and much higher.

Every thing about that screams Sh*nk.. but I've read the shaft steepening is compensating move, and actually causes to hits.

So... How the HELL do you keep your hands at or inside that line? Super tough concept for me to grasp, especially battling toe contact??  It seems id be even further away from the center of the clubface..

I am not an expert like @iacas or @mvmac , but notice how much your left arm has come off your body at impact as compared to Rory.  I work on keeping the pressure point of my left armpit attached to my body to help my hand path come back to the setup point.  Try the tee under the armpit drill and see if that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

saevel25    1,073

I too have a question about the hand line, especially as it comes to adress vs. impact.

As of late I've been hitting most iron shots on the toe side of center (maybe a half a ball).  I'm almost certain it has to do with steepening the shaft.... (THE NEON GREEN LINE IS AN OVERLAY OF THE SHAFT ANGLE AT SETUP)..

Red line is representative of the HAND LINE AT ADRESS.  I've watched a ton of swings on YouTube, and EVERY pro is returning the hands to that line or just fractionally past it (like Rory above).  My hands though are way out beyond it and much higher.

Every thing about that screams Sh*nk.. but I've read the shaft steepening is compensating move, and actually causes to hits.

So... How the HELL do you keep your hands at or inside that line? Super tough concept for me to grasp, especially battling toe contact??  It seems id be even further away from the center of the clubface..

On a side note, look at Rory's posture. Head down more, lower back not arched. Work that a bit to :-D

Also hands don't have to line up at impact as they do at address. Depends on the player.

I would guess your posture is forcing you closer to the ball. If you get that back not arched and chin more towards the chest, I think you will feel closer to the ball than you are now. You will probably end up standing a bit further away, might help with your Shank issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

JPK1988    2

Yeah thats a really good point I didn't notice that.  I do the headcover drill quite a bit and it stays put, maybe something smaller like a tee will help.  I think its like a mental block about keeping things in tighter while missing towards the toe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

iacas    4,164

Note that where the hans appear from down the line at A1 and A7 are measuring the hands at two different points along the circle. At A7 the hands are often farther forward (more shaft lean) and thus farther forward and more inward (from DL view) on the circle.


Be careful trying to make generalizations like that…

Here's a bonus one:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

JPK1988    2

On a side note, look at Rory's posture. Head down more, lower back not arched. Work that a bit to

Also hands don't have to line up at impact as they do at address. Depends on the player.

I would guess your posture is forcing you closer to the ball. If you get that back not arched and chin more towards the chest, I think you will feel closer to the ball than you are now. You will probably end up standing a bit further away, might help with your Shank issue.

Haven't shanked for a while. almost all toe misses, but I do agree posture is probably a big issue on any miss thats on either side of the sweet spot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JPK1988    2

@iacas

okay point taken... so then i guess the question becomes, what causes the toe hits, if my hands being so far over the line isnt an issue? it has to be a shaft plane thing right? because based on all of the tour guys hand positions above, they too must steepen out the shaft to find center..is it that I am over doing it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jclark    7
I just seen a video on this. Seems interesting... [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOuV4zdXt7Q[/VIDEO]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

iacas    4,164

okay point taken... so then i guess the question becomes, what causes the toe hits, if my hands being so far over the line isnt an issue? it has to be a shaft plane thing right? because based on all of the tour guys hand positions above, they too must steepen out the shaft to find center..is it that I am over doing it?

You're probably sending the sweet spot outside the ball and when you can't pull it in fast enough, you toe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

MS256    145
I just seen a video on this. Seems interesting...


Good video. Goes well with this one that I bookmarked a while back because I thought it was a good visual on getting back down to impact.

One word of caution: If you "hump the goat" very much your hip and thigh will force the hands club out resulting in shank city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jclark    7
Good video. Goes well with this one that I bookmarked a while back because I thought it was a good visual on getting back down to impact. One word of caution: If you "hump the goat" very much your hip and thigh will force the hands club out resulting in shank city.

Point taken and thanks for the visual. I've been to some third world countries where this is quite popular!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

MS256    145

Point taken and thanks for the visual.

I've been to some third world countries where this is quite popular!


Ha ha! Very popular in amateur golf videos too!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    Talamore Golf Resort
    PING Golf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Mission Belt
    Snell Golf
    Frogger Golf
    PitchFix USA
  • Posts

    • ... well, it was clarity for me, anyway.  

      I've been going through a slump recently.  After finally achieving a single digit index, it's been all downhill for the last 3 weeks or so.  Off the tee, I developed a quick hook that I couldn't get rid of.  Everywhere else, I've struggled to strike the ball solidly.  

      On the 5th hole this morning, I was in the rough up the left hand side.  I had 193 yards to the hole and the ball was kind of sunken down a bit, but the back of the ball was exposed.  I took a few practice swings, and then it hit me that I needed to play this like a fairway bunker shot.  I needed to make sure the contact to the back of the ball was clean and that I accelerated through the ball.  I hit a low 4 iron that ran up into the green side trap.  Other than the fact that I pulled it a bit (the rough closed the club face just enough), I played it exactly as I'd wanted to.  

      2 holes later, I had 130 to a flag in the back corner of the green.  This specific green is hard and the ball always releases.  Again, I was in the rough... but this one was sitting cleaner.  I had that same swing thought, playing it like it was a fairway bunker shot, and I hit a great shot with a pitching wedge that landed just shy of the pin and released to about 20 feet.  

      For the rest of the round, that was my thought standing over the ball with an iron.  I've been pretty good out of fairway traps for awhile now.  I don't know why it never clicked with me before today.  I hit crisper irons today than I have for the last month.  I scored like crap (a lot of shots were going further and I was left with tough up & down chances), but... striking the ball felt good again.  

      Chances are that I'll forget this again in the near future, or some other 'masterful' swing thought will take over... but, for now... at least I feel like I'm headed in the right direction.

      CY
    • It may. I'm assuming the driver is the biggest issue right now, and not just by a little. If I have a student who is coming for > 1 lesson, I take a slightly different approach. I'll work more often with an iron swing, because many of the same issues are present across the board. But if they're just coming once? I have to show them that I can help them get better with their biggest weakness. And so sometimes that means "yeah, you probably do that with your irons, but since it's magnified even more with the driver, let's work with that." It's not always a pure "golf" decision. Sometimes it's a business decision. If you've got someone coming for eight lessons, you can work up a longer-term plan, and if the driver still isn't fixed you can address it in a later lesson, and the student is more comfortable with that too. If you have one shot, you've got one chance to leave the student feeling happy at the end of the lesson. Your priorities change a little, as does the student's - he's not looking for a long-term ten-shot improvement, he wants to save two or three shots by not hitting a huge slice 14 times a round. Depending on what you mean by "generally." The driver and iron swings can be fairly different. There's less importance on getting your weight forward when the ball is teed up, you can swing faster, many pros play a different shape with the driver than irons, etc. It's a similar but different swing… depending on how picky you want to be about calling something the same or different.
    • Why?   I'll assume you're familiar with logical fallacies and spare explaining why this isn't a legitimate argument.   I don't remember Jack complaining when he was outdriving most of his fellow competitors in the 60s and 70s.    
    • There's no one commonality here Frankie. If letting your head/neck rotate through more will help your chest/torso rotate through more, go for it.
    • Well, some people equate long game with length alone. Straight is a huge factor as well. Length without the ability to find the darn thing is pretty useless. All other aspects of the their games being equal someone who hits the ball farther will win as they should have a better chance of getting the ball in the hole in the fewest number of strokes. That being said in the real world that would never happen as people's games would almost never be equal in all other areas. And I never said that, too many factors exist. I just never did buy into the "practice your short game 80% of the time" theory for the mere fact that even the best players on the planet only get it up and down at an average of about 60% of the time. I mean the best guy on tour only gets it up and down 67% of the time. So even the best amateur can only hope to achieve 50%. (although there are people on this forum who would make you think they get it up and down 90% of the time ) Basically my belief has always been to be successful you have to have as many looks at birdie as possible, so you have to have as many GIRs as possible which means you have to be in the best position possible to hit greens. Which in turn means hit it as long as you can AND hit it where you can find it. Even the best hybrid player on the planet from 225 yards is not as good as I am with sand wedge from 110. Like Lee Trevino said, "There are two things that won't last long in this world, and that's dogs chasing cars and pros putting for pars." You can only get it up and down so often so there is a direct correlation between GIR and scoring well. if you miss 10 greens on average even the best player is looking at a score of +4. 
       
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Bryan Kasper
      Bryan Kasper
      (25 years old)
    2. Greg Pickett Golf
      Greg Pickett Golf
      (62 years old)
    3. hobecorning
      hobecorning
      (75 years old)
    4. Lfm
      Lfm
      (73 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon