Stop Aiming at the Flag!!! #DeadCenter

[xerex250]

I know you also got this directly from his book, because I got it from there as well.  It's good stuff.  However, this is not what the thread is about.  You're talking about start lines vs. target lines (basically "shot cones" )

This thread is talking about making the center of the green your target, as opposed to the pin.

Also, just remember that while his diagrams would show flags, and his wording might even as well ... he's really talking about where he'd aim in relation to his target, which was certainly not always the flag.

Ok I'm sorry I misunderstood the thread. Anyway, have a good rest of your day,

Xerex

[golfguypriusguy]

then again if you aren't playing competitively why not have some fun?? aiming for the center of the green  will diminish my chances of getting hole in ones or eagles on the 4 and 5's. do you know where greatness comes from?  it comes from being brave and taking chances. sure you have to walk through fire to get there but once your'e there you will be glad you did. I never want to be the guy to layup  or punch my ball out to the center of the fairway instead of hooking my ball like Bubba did a couple years ago at the masters and landing on the green. You will never be remembered for playing safe, in order to be remembered you have to be the guy in the 4 some with the biggest cahones. Make some memories...go big or go home!

just like when the 3 point line was introduced into the nba. The 3ball wasn't utilized even close to as much as it is now. why? because the philosophy was why make a shot harder than it has to be? the answer...well because there is more reward. what is going to make you feel better, hitting a shot from 10 feet out? or draining one from beyond the arch??

are you that guy who cuts the corner on doglegs?? or are you the guy who plays safe and just puts it out there?

[Shindig]

then again if you aren't playing competitively why not have some fun??

I find lowering my score to be fun. Those double- and triple- bogeys aren't as much fun. [quote name="golfguypriusguy" url="/t/72445/stop-aiming-at-the-flag/216#post_956790"] aiming for the center of the green  will diminish my chances of getting hole in ones or eagles on the 4 and 5's. [/quote] Yes, from epsilon to epsilon squared. [quote name="golfguypriusguy" url="/t/72445/stop-aiming-at-the-flag/216#post_956790"]do you know where greatness comes from?[/quote] Is it from taking unnecessary risks and hoping I get lucky? Please tell me it is. [quote name="golfguypriusguy" url="/t/72445/stop-aiming-at-the-flag/216#post_956790"]You will never be remembered for playing safe,[/quote] David Toms is. That, and this thread isn't about whether or not to lay up. It's about where to aim when going for the green.

[BZCDR]

Interesting comments all around. Paying it safe and going for it are both legit strategies. I played on Friday and went for this tiny green from about 215 out. Ended up with a birdie. But my chances of breaking 80, which is my goal, was already pretty much out of reach.n so why not have some fun? If a par on that hole would have sufficed to finally get me under 80, no way would I have done that. It just depends on the situation. Score-wise, middle of the green is often a wise choice, but there are a lot of cariables that should, actually must, be considered before doing that. I can think of a several holes where going for the middle would be an extremely bad idea, others where it might be the best idea but by no means absolutely necessary, and yet others where one would be dumb as a sack of hammers not to do so. But it's a fery good idea to consider that option each and every time.

[golfguypriusguy]

What you guys do not realize is most likely you will never be on the tour lol. When there is money involved or something on the line I would play smart when I have to. But if you are just out there having fun why not go for the flag. And if you want to know greatness comes from doing great things. Sticking the ball in the middle of the green isnt great. I mean hell if you are aiming for the center of the green why not aim for the flag? It is still a target. You are going to improve just as fast as you would aiming for the center and you will have more fun a long the way doing so. In fact I think you will improve faster by going for the flag anyways because it is a much more precise target and requires much more concentration and precision.And heck if you are a 20 plus handicap to begin with why not just aim in the general direction of the green and pray it lands on it. Playing safe when youre out there during a recreational game of golf is lame and I have a term for people like you..."certified pusspuss". Life isnt about being mediocre and playing it safe its about taking risks and venturing into the unknown. As much as some of you peoe think it is "hip to be square" well it is not anymore. The 80's are long gone and phil Collins is a hasbeen.

[iacas]

I played on Friday and went for this tiny green from about 215 out. Ended up with a birdie.

That's not the same thing as what's being discussed here.

If a par on that hole would have sufficed to finally get me under 80, no way would I have done that.

Actually, you definitely should have gone for it if par was the goal. But again, that's not the topic here…

What you guys do not realize is most likely you will never be on the tour lol.

How is that relevant? This is about shooting lower scores, not shooting 65 in a PGA Tour event.

But if you are just out there having fun why not go for the flag.

I imagine that, for many, shooting a lower score is "more fun."

I mean hell if you are aiming for the center of the green why not aim for the flag? It is still a target.

One produces lower scores. The other introduces higher scores, on average.

[Harmonious]

Playing safe when youre out there during a recreational game of golf is lame and I have a term for people like you..."certified pusspuss". Life isnt about being mediocre and playing it safe its about taking risks and venturing into the unknown. As much as some of you peoe think it is "hip to be square" well it is not anymore. The 80's are long gone and phil Collins is a hasbeen.

For what it's worth, this advice is coming from a guy who drives a Prius?

[mvmac]

aiming for the center of the green  will diminish my chances of getting hole in ones or eagles on the 4 and 5's. do you know where greatness comes from?

Says who? Don't forget that some pins will already be in the middle of the green. You can also have your final target be the middle of the green, miss the target but end up close to the pin. It's all about giving yourself the best chance at shooting a lower score, going for the flag doesn't results in lower scores.

Sticking the ball in the middle of the green isnt great. I mean hell if you are aiming for the center of the green why not aim for the flag? It is still a target.

Golfers already try to aim at the flag and it's a strategy that results in crappy scores. If golfers want to shoot lower scores, their target should be the center of the green, it will allow them to make more pars and have more chances at birdie.

[Shindig]

You can also have your final target be the middle of the green, miss the target but end up close to the pin. It's all about giving yourself the best chance at shooting a lower score, going for the flag doesn't results in lower scores.

I wanted to ask about this. I'm already sold on aiming at the middle of the green whenever possible. Suppose I hit my 8-iron 125 yards and the center of the green is 130 yards out for an average sized green. If the pin is in front, and all other things are equal (good lie, no wind, level, etc), should I be hitting an 8-iron, 7-iron, or something else (maybe grip down on the 7-iron)?

[Mr. Desmond]

What you guys do not realize is most likely you will never be on the tour lol. When there is money involved or something on the line I would play smart when I have to. But if you are just out there having fun why not go for the flag. And if you want to know greatness comes from doing great things. Sticking the ball in the middle of the green isnt great. Playing safe when youre out there during a recreational game of golf is lame and I have a term for people like you..."certified pusspuss". Life isnt about being mediocre and playing it safe its about taking risks and venturing into the unknown. As much as some of you peoe think it is "hip to be square" well it is not anymore. The 80's are long gone and phil Collins is a hasbeen.

We're not talking about greatness. We're talking Joe Golfer for the most part getting the lowest score possible for 18 holes.

Greatness is knowing your limitations and putting the ego where it belongs.

But if you want to have fun, and fun means going for flags, go for it. But it doesn't translate into an overall lower score. But it may result in 1-2 holes of so-called greatness that you can smile about over a couple of beers while forgetting the other 16 holes. Meanwhile, you're handing over your money to the guys going for the center of the green...

[LuciusWooding]

You are going to improve just as fast as you would aiming for the center and you will have more fun a long the way doing so. In fact I think you will improve faster by going for the flag anyways because it is a much more precise target and requires much more concentration and precision.

Yeah I wanted to take up boxing so I decided to debut by fighting Manny Pacquiao because I wanted to improve fast. Then I entered in a marathon to get better at running, and jumped off Niagara falls to learn how to swim. I've never caught a 95mph fastball or gotten hit by an NFL linebacker before either but the only way to learn those skills is obviously to do it spontaneously by the sink or swim method. I don't care if I break all my ribs or get beaned in the face, because risk is the only way to learn.

^That was sarcasm by the way. I put a lot of stock in the idea that your swing and your misses are fairly consistent even for bad golfers, and that your 18 hole scores won't usually fluctuate wildly because your game and your swing are what they are. Maybe that means you can get lucky and hit a good shot, but the idea that making par is a bad thing is absurd, especially for handicap golfers. It's not as though you can't make birdie from anywhere on the green. The reason we aren't scratch isn't because of not making enough birdies. Yes it's a great feeling to make one or to hit a great recovery shot or whatever, but you don't improve by shooting at the flag. The data shows that aiming for the center of the green lowers your average score, which means you improve by doing so. Even in match play making pars will put most opponents in a bind sooner or later.

You are not Neo. This is not the matrix. You can't get better by some magical realization between the top of your backswing and impact. At best you can aim at a spot where your average shot will get you a decent score. Any target can be precise, even if it's a conservative one.

[mvmac]

I wanted to ask about this. I'm already sold on aiming at the middle of the green whenever possible. Suppose I hit my 8-iron 125 yards and the center of the green is 130 yards out for an average sized green. If the pin is in front, and all other things are equal (good lie, no wind, level, etc), should I be hitting an 8-iron, 7-iron, or something else (maybe grip down on the 7-iron)?

Just my take, hopefully Erik and Dave agree

Go with the 8 iron. If the final target was the exact center of the green (like you said, an average green), the 8 iron would be the club that has the best chance of getting the closest to it. If you were to hit a 7 or a choke 7 iron 130 yards, it would probably roll out a bit once it hits the green. If you hit the 8 iron 125 and lands and stops, heck you're only 5 yards away from your target. If it rolls out a bit, you're still good and if for some reason you hit it a few yards shorter, you're close to the flag.

[BZCDR]

Actually, going for the green from 215 yds out in order to make par was NOT the best plan. I neglected to that was my second shot on a par 5. The green was below my lie but still an elevated green, with a large, vertical walled bunker in front. Safe play for par was about 180 yds to the left with an easy on in 3. But my score wasn't all that great for the day and I decided to have fun. My point is that I agree that for my level of play going for the center of the green is something that I should always consider. It's basically my default setting. If I decide not to do that it is either because I'm not worried about my score, I'm close enough to have that degree of control or the consequences of an off-target shot are not exceeding severe.

[LuciusWooding]

Actually, going for the green from 215 yds out in order to make par was NOT the best plan. I neglected to that was my second shot on a par 5. The green was below my lie but still an elevated green, with a large, vertical walled bunker in front. Safe play for par was about 180 yds to the left with an easy on in 3. But my score wasn't all that great for the day and I decided to have fun.

My point is that I agree that for my level of play going for the center of the green is something that I should always consider. It's basically my default setting. If I decide not to do that it is either because I'm not worried about my score, I'm close enough to have that degree of control or the consequences of an off-target shot are not exceeding severe.

Any time I try to reach a green before regulation, I usually don't mind blasting it over if the trouble's short. On my course a number of holes have crazy bunkers in front but just rough in back, so it's best for me to hit with enough carry to go over the trouble easily. A lot of times if you're legitimately long enough to carry the front bunkers, the hole has no defenses.

[flopster]

I agree with the thought process here and would just like to add to it, in some cases the center of the green isn't entirely the safest play either IMO, I have about 6 greens at my home course with false fronts, the greens are very fast and it's not unusual to have pins placed less than 5' from the fall off point. I feel playing to the exact pin yardage and favoring whichever side of it has less trouble is the correct play in this situation, I have seen numerous times players having 25' putts from the center of the green to these pins roll down a hillside and wind up 30 yards away if they put a little too much pace on the ball.

[Phil McGleno]

Thats bad putting then.-Having a 25-foot putt is better than "attacking the flag" and leaving yourself that 30-yard shot from the fairway isnt it?[quote name="flopster" url="/t/72445/stop-aiming-at-the-flag/216#post_957042"]I agree with the thought process here and would just like to add to it, in some cases the center of the green isn't entirely the safest play either IMO, I have about 6 greens at my home course with false fronts, the greens are very fast and it's not unusual to have pins placed less than 5' from the fall off point. I feel playing to the exact pin yardage and favoring whichever side of it has less trouble is the correct play in this situation, I have seen numerous times players having 25' putts from the center of the green to these pins roll down a hillside and wind up 30 yards away if they put a little too much pace on the ball. [/quote] Plus-I dont think theyre saying "always" hit it at the geometric center.-The true message is the subject of the Thread.

[14ledo81]

[QUOTE name="golfguypriusguy" url="/t/72445/stop-aiming-at-the-flag/210_30#post_956810"]  Playing safe when youre out there during a recreational game of golf is lame and I have a term for people like you..."certified pusspuss". Life isnt about being mediocre and playing it safe its about taking risks and venturing into the unknown. As much as some of you peoe think it is "hip to be square" well it is not anymore. The 80's are long gone and phil Collins is a hasbeen.[/QUOTE] For what it's worth, this advice is coming from a guy who drives a Prius?

Lol. Oh the irony. Didn't somebody mention the term "certified pusspuss"? This is a joke. Not intended to actually offend any Prius owners.

[Golfingdad]

As much as some of you peoe think it is "hip to be square" well it is not anymore. The 80's are long gone and phil Collins is a hasbeen.

For what it's worth, this advice is coming from a guy who drives a Prius?

On top of that, a numbnuts who apparently doesn't know the difference between Phil Collins and Huey Lewis & The News??