Jump to content
IGNORED

Provisional ball


Lowkie
Note: This thread is 3685 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

So you tee off and decide to hit a provisional ball because you might be out of bounds. Your provisional ball hooks/slices deep out of bounds or into a water hazard.  Are you allowed to hit another provisional? Is there a penalty for this? If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Yes you may hit as many provisionals as necessary. Each one adds another 2 (provisional) strokes of course. Each provisional is a provisional for the previous ball played not the original.

You need to keep track of your score when you find one of the balls you played. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


You also need to be able to identify which is the provisional and which is the original.  If you get to the area where both balls were last seen and find one in bounds and one out out of bounds and you can't positively which is which, then the rules deem that the one in bounds is the provisional ball.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Who decides whether any player may hit a provisional ball?  If my ball is sitting short of the fairway but visible from the tee box and i am very dissatisfied with the stroke just played and i seek to take a 'legitimate mulligan' by calling the next shot, from the same tee box a provisional ball, is that permitted?  Is such an action penalized?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

Who decides whether any player may hit a provisional ball?  If my ball is sitting short of the fairway but visible from the tee box and i am very dissatisfied with the stroke just played and i seek to take a 'legitimate mulligan' by calling the next shot, from the same tee box a provisional ball, is that permitted?  Is such an action penalized?

Yes, it's penalized. You'd be effectively declaring your ball unplayable and hitting again.

The Rules for when you can play a provisional were posted above.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Well, i looked over Rule 27 and frankly do not see how my situation warrants a penalty.  Let me re-phrase the scene. On the tee and drive the ball towards the fairway but now the ball disappears, maybe into a drain area, or not. But now cannot see the ball from the tee box. So i think ball may be lost and therefore declare 'provisional ball, Top-Flight 3' and happily drive this ball 234 down the middle. All walk forward and there is my original ball in the drain so i say to all, 'here's my first ball and i'm playing it.'  I have no further interest in 'provisional 'ball and pick it up as i walk past.

What's the problem?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Well, i looked over Rule 27 and frankly do not see how my situation warrants a penalty.  Let me re-phrase the scene. On the tee and drive the ball towards the fairway but now the ball disappears, maybe into a drain area, or not. But now cannot see the ball from the tee box. So i think ball may be lost and therefore declare 'provisional ball, Top-Flight 3' and happily drive this ball 234 down the middle. All walk forward and there is my original ball in the drain so i say to all, 'here's my first ball and i'm playing it.'  I have no further interest in 'provisional 'ball and pick it up as i walk past.

What's the problem?

I think you may be citing stroke and distance, and if that's the case I believe you can do that anytime of course you would be now hitting 3 from the tee box. The situation you would want to do that is if you feel your ball would not be able to be advanced in less shots than just taking s&d; but I could be wrong also because you may have to declare unplayable lie instead. Oh well I tried I'm sure someone here knows better.

Rich C.

Driver Titleist 915 D3  9.5*
3 Wood TM RBZ stage 2 tour  14.5*
2 Hybrid Cobra baffler 17*
4Hybrid Adams 23*
Irons Adams CB2's 5-GW
Wedges 54* and 58* Titleist vokey
Putter Scotty Cameron square back 2014
Ball Srixon Zstar optic yellow
bushnell V2 slope edition

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Who decides whether any player may hit a provisional ball?  If my ball is sitting short of the fairway but visible from the tee box and i am very dissatisfied with the stroke just played and i seek to take a 'legitimate mulligan' by calling the next shot, from the same tee box a provisional ball, is that permitted?  Is such an action penalized?

You have the answer to this from iacas. There is no such thing as a legitimate mulligan - the second ball you played from the tee is the ball in play and it cost you a penalty stroke.

Well, i looked over Rule 27 and frankly do not see how my situation warrants a penalty.  Let me re-phrase the scene. On the tee and drive the ball towards the fairway but now the ball disappears, maybe into a drain area, or not. But now cannot see the ball from the tee box. So i think ball may be lost and therefore declare 'provisional ball, Top-Flight 3' and happily drive this ball 234 down the middle. All walk forward and there is my original ball in the drain so i say to all, 'here's my first ball and i'm playing it.'  I have no further interest in 'provisional 'ball and pick it up as i walk past.

What's the problem?

Regarding the situation as you first described it,  i.e. seeing your ball but nonetheless playing another one, you must have missed this bit when you looked over Rule 27:

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds , to save time the player may play another ball provisionally...... [27-2a ]

Clearly, if you can see your ball, there is no possibility of its being lost and so you are not entitled to play a provisional.

Your second situation  is not just a re-phrasing of the first - it's a completely different one!  This time you can't see your ball and think it may be lost. That's exactly when you are allowed by the statement above to play a provisional.  When you find your ball in the drain (within 5 minutes of starting to look for it),  you have no choice: you must play it. That's 27-2c where it says,

If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds , the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball.

So a problem in wanting to play a provisional when you see your ball but think it might not be in too good a place; and no problem in playing a provisional when you can't see the ball and think it may be lost and then continuing play with the original when it is found.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Well, i looked over Rule 27 and frankly do not see how my situation warrants a penalty.  Let me re-phrase the scene. On the tee and drive the ball towards the fairway but now the ball disappears, maybe into a drain area, or not. But now cannot see the ball from the tee box. So i think ball may be lost and therefore declare 'provisional ball, Top-Flight 3' and happily drive this ball 234 down the middle. All walk forward and there is my original ball in the drain so i say to all, 'here's my first ball and i'm playing it.'  I have no further interest in 'provisional 'ball and pick it up as i walk past.

What's the problem?

Sorry, but there has to be some reasonable possibility that the original ball might be lost.

27-2a/3

Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds

Q.In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?

A.No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play – see Decision 27-2a/2.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

So you tee off and decide to hit a provisional ball because you might be out of bounds. Your provisional ball hooks/slices deep out of bounds or into a water hazard .  Are you allowed to hit another provisional? Is there a penalty for this? If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated.

Note, you may NOT play that second provisional if you believe your first provisional is lost in a water hazard......

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

When my course is wet and the crew has not mowed in a week, plenty of balls are not found even though they lie only a foot off the fairway.  Grass here grows fast and is curly so can easily hide a ball.,  A very reasonable possibility ball won't be found and can be claimed to  be lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


When my course is wet and the crew has not mowed in a week, plenty of balls are not found even though they lie only a foot off the fairway.  Grass here grows fast and is curly so can easily hide a ball.,  A very reasonable possibility ball won't be found and can be claimed to  be lost.

And those are exactly the circumstances where you should play a provisional ball.  It saves time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Thank you all for your help and responses.  It helps to know that other scoring (thought it was a one stroke penalty) I've been doing it right on the occasions I have to hit a provisional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note, you may NOT play that second provisional if you believe your first provisional is lost in a water hazard......

Perhaps semantics, if so, don't be upset. If your first provisional MAY be lost outside a water hazard, you are permitted to play a provisional. Your next ball will not be a provisional if it is known or virtually certain that your first provisional is in a water hazard. "Known or virtually certain" is a high standard of evidence, anything less suggests it may be lost outside the water hazard and another provisional is permitted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Perhaps semantics, if so, don't be upset. If your first provisional MAY be lost outside a water hazard, you are permitted to play a provisional. Your next ball will not be a provisional if it is known or virtually certain that your first provisional is in a water hazard. "Known or virtually certain" is a high standard of evidence, anything less suggests it may be lost outside the water hazard and another provisional is permitted.

Semantics.  In the OP he specifically mentioned lost in a WH as an equivalent option with OB.  It's not....

Question.  If the provisional is known to be lost the WH, and he plays another ball incorrectly thinking that it is a second provisional, does that ball become the ball in play, and he has given up his right to find the original ball?  It would seem so.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It can be confusing if you don't know the rules and the jargon.  But it's pretty much common sense once you know the intent.  The purpose of a provisional ball is to speed up play if there's a reasonable chance you'll end up in a situation where you need to go back and re-tee.  There are only two situations where you must go back and re-tee: (i) you can't find your ball, (ii) your ball is OB.  If you hit your tee shot and you think there's a chance you'll encounter either of those two situations, you may hit a provisional.

One tricky thing is that you can not hit a provisional for a ball you know is in a water hazard.  You may choose to re-tee, but in doing so you are simply declaring the first ball lost and hitting 3 off the tee (or 5 or 7 or whatever).  If you hit a ball in a water hazard, you may not hit a provisional and then choose whether you'll be better off playing your 4th stroke from where your provisional lies or playing your 3rd stroke from where you can drop outside the hazard.  That gives you two balls in play which is always against the rules.

That leaves one other tricky thing.  What if you hit a ball that may be in a water hazard but may also be in play?  My understanding of the rules is that because you're not almost certain the ball went into the hazard, you basically can't play it as if it went into the water.  You can't just declare it went into the water even though you're not sure just because you like your chances better playing 3 from where you'd drop better than playing 3 from the tee.  You are also not allowed to hit a provisional, go look for your ball, not find it, then declare that since it's gone it must have gone into the hazard and play a drop.  This is essentially a sneaky way of accomplishing the two balls in play thing I mentioned, since when you don't find your ball you'd be able to decide if you're better off playing a drop or playing your provisional.

Matt

Mid-Weight Heavy Putter
Cleveland Tour Action 60˚
Cleveland CG15 54˚
Nike Vapor Pro Combo, 4i-GW
Titleist 585h 19˚
Tour Edge Exotics XCG 15˚ 3 Wood
Taylormade R7 Quad 9.5˚

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Semantics.  In the OP he specifically mentioned lost in a WH as an equivalent option with OB.  It's not.... Question.  If the provisional is known to be lost the WH, and he plays another ball incorrectly thinking that it is a second provisional, does that ball become the ball in play, and he has given up his right to find the original ball?  It would seem so.

Your question - no, the next ball only bears a relationship to the previous ball (Decision 27-2a/4). In the situation that you've described, the second ball is now no longer in play. If the original ball is found within five minutes, it is still the ball in play; if not found within five minutes, the third ball is in play, lying five if play originated from the tee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 3685 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Wordle 1,013 4/6* ⬛🟦🟦⬛⬛ ⬛🟦⬛🟦🟦 🟧⬛🟧🟧🟧 🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧 par is good after a double bogey yesterday.
    • I did read the fine print tonight. It said replace with “similar features & function”.  8 yeas ago my purchase had features that today are available on the lower end models and the current version of my model has more “bells & whistles” than what I got 8 years ago.  So I am thinking they honored the agreement and I can’t argue the offer. since getting a credit for the full purchase price all I am really out over the past 8 years was the cost of the extended warranty, which was less than a low end  treadmill would have cost me. now the question is which model to replace with.  I’ll stay with Nordic Track or I forfeit the $1,463 credit so I will get Nordic Track.  And they honored the warranty and were not hard to work with which is a plus.
    • Generally speaking, extended warranties are a terrible deal and should almost always be avoided. They are a huge profit center for the companies that offer them, which should tell you almost everything you need to know about how much value most consumers get when purchasing them.  This is correct, and the old adage applies - only buy insurance when you can't afford the loss. This usually doesn't apply to most consumer goods.  To your second question, no I don't believe the offer is fair. They are replacing it, but it is not being replaced at "no cost to you". Since the amount being disputed (over $500) is non-trivial, I would probably push the issue. Don't waste your time on the phone with a customer service agent or a supervisor. They have probably given you all they have the authority to do. Rather, I would look at the terms of your agreement and specifically legal disputes. The odds are you probably agreed to binding arbitration in the event of a dispute. The agreement will outline what steps need to be followed, but it will probably look something like this.  1. Mail the Nordic Track legal department outlining your dispute and indicate you are not satisfied with the resolution offered.  2. Open up a case with the AAA (American Arbitration Association), along with the required documentation. 3. Wait about 4-5 weeks for a case to be opened - at which point someone from Nordic Track's legal department will offer to give you the new model at no cost to you.  They certainly don't want to spend the time and energy to fight you over $500. 4. Enjoy your new Nordic Track at no cost to you. I recently entered binding arbitration against a fairly large and well known company that screwed me over and refused to make it right. In my demand letter, I made a pretty sizeable request that included compensation for my time and frustration. Once it hit their legal department, they cut me a check - no questions asked. It was far cheaper to settle with me than to send their legal team to defend them in the arbitration.
    • I never thought of looking at it on multiple purchases like you said.  Yes, the extended may help me on 1 or 2 items but not the other 5 or 6.
    • Day 84 - Forgot to post yesterday, but I did some more chipping/pitching.    Back/neck were feeling better today, so I did a much overdue Stack session. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...