Why do the pros hit it so far? Here's my take

[Alx]

17 hours ago, mvmac said:

Agree but you need the technique to back it up. Tiger hit it far when he was skinny. Rory hit it far before he started lifting.

Sure you do. We already established that but you can still get impressive clubhead speeds even with poor mechanics if you have the raw speed.

Rorys still a lightweight. 

 

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

What I'm saying is that strength training for distance is like the cherry on top once your mechanics don't suck.

I got practicly the same speed out of my swing when I first started as I do now. You know why? Cause the limiting factor was always how fast I could move.

You think all those baseball players taking anabolics are and were doing it for fun? Or sprinters? 

There's a study on sprinters where they compared two athletes of similar size and found that one had significantly larger deeper muscles which most likely explained the difference in performance. Can't remember which muscles they scanned.

11 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Doesn't matter much how much this guy lifts if his impact looks like this.

But it does.

 

10 hours ago, Pretzel said:

You also have to consider the fact that some people just don't have the ability in them to hit it 300. Some people just cannot rotate/move fast enough to make that happen. Same as how not everybody is capable of becoming a world champion weightlifter regardless of how hard they train.

World champion weightlifting is on another level than hitting it 300... Thats exactly the point I'am trying to make they are not comparable!

 

10 hours ago, mvmac said:

There are plenty of fit guys on tour (like Zach Johnson)

The guy is 1.8m and weighs 73kg... Fit is more than being skinny fat and doing a few mball swings. (not hatin on Johnson I know hes an accomplished player)

[lastings]

11 hours ago, Pretzel said:

 

 

11 hours ago, mvmac said:

I never said it was all mechanics driven but it plays a big role. Johnson was working for a time last year at hitting it farther but increasing his turn (his is kinda compact). Regardless, Johnson still hits it relatively "far". 

There are plenty of fit guys on tour (like Zach Johnson) that don't hit it as far as Rory. Some players are just able to rotate faster, move their arms faster during the swing. Some are just more naturally gifted (fast twitch muscles, flexibility) at creating speed

Part of this is a choice.   DJ swings out of his shoes when he drives the ball.   Zach J has a very compact and controlled swing.  Zach Johnson's game is all about placement.  DJ is trying to hit past the point where placement matters.  

Not saying that Zach could consistently hit DJ length if he wanted to, but, I bet if the two went to the range and were just bashing balls as hard as they could, their length's would be closer than their tour averages lead you to believe.  

 

[mvmac]

57 minutes ago, Alx said:

Sure you do. We already established that but you can still get impressive clubhead speeds even with poor mechanics if you have the raw speed.

Yes there are golfers who are less skilled that hit the ball a long ways, they have raw speed like you said. It's something they naturally do. 

That isn't what you originally posted. This is what you said.

On 4/9/2017 at 1:01 PM, Alx said:

Most club golfers could add alot of distance by just being a bit more fit. Put in a little gym work and it'll do wonders.

Most club golfers don't have much raw speed to start with and it's really tough to develop. What I'm saying is if you take the average 40-60 year old, add a little gym time, don't change the mechanics, that isn't going to lead to "a lot" of distance.

57 minutes ago, Alx said:

Rorys still a lightweight. 

So the club golfer, someone who is in there 40-60's with a dad-bod will add a lot of distance with a little more gym time but Rory McIlroy a lightweight? lol

57 minutes ago, Alx said:

You think all those baseball players taking anabolics are and were doing it for fun?

Again you were originally talking about club golfers adding a lot of distance by going to the gym. The guys taking the steroids were already really good at hitting a baseball.

It's like when a new driver or ball comes out. The people that benefit the most are the tour players because they swing fast and hit it really solid. You're not going to see much distance gains if you hit it all over the face and contact is inconsistent. 

13 minutes ago, lastings said:

Part of this is a choice.   DJ swings out of his shoes when he drives the ball.   Zach J has a very compact and controlled swing.  Zach Johnson's game is all about placement.  DJ is trying to hit past the point where placement matters.  

Zach Johnson does everything he can to hit it as far as he does. It's not choice. If it was choice he's be the stupidest golfer in the history of the game.

13 minutes ago, lastings said:

Not saying that Zach could consistently hit DJ length if he wanted to, but, I bet if the two went to the range and were just bashing balls as hard as they could, their length's would be closer than their tour averages lead you to believe.  

It wouldn't be close, DJ would be hitting it 30-40 past ZJ if they were going as hard as they could. No matter what ZJ does he can't swing close to 130mph.

[nevets88]

Dad-bod. Lol. Got some dad jeans to go w/that? 

[freshmanUTA]

On 2/27/2014 at 11:53 AM, shortstop20 said:

 

So on anything besides his best shots, he lost 30 yards of carry?

 

I don't think so.

Well when you didn't hit those drivers(literally) out of the screws, you lost a ton of distance, especially with the balls they used. I can realistically see him losing 20-30 yards carry if he didn't hit the middle. The clubs then were not nearly as forgiving as now.

 

On 2/27/2014 at 1:45 PM, kenstl said:

I think the biggest change in distance is the golf ball. The advent of titanium face on the driver is a large change as well, but let's face it, the mfg are capped on the cor that they can produce a driver face so there is a limit to technology since. The ball however, continues to develop. The attached link is on a test of titleist balls from the balata to the current pro v1 ball. All test are. With a player that has a 110 mph swing, less than. The longest tour pros by quite a bit. Look at the distance changes. On the balls, easily 35 yards just due to the ball! If nicklaus were using a titanium faced driver and a current pro v1 he would be hitting it just as far as the modern player. And. By the way, I doubt that a bubba could hit the balata ball as straight as he does the modern ball. He would be all over the course! http://www.andrewricegolf.com/2011/08/evolution-of-a-golf-ball/

Bubba and the idea of hitting a straight shot don't really mix well.

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, Alx said:

World champion weightlifting is on another level than hitting it 300... Thats exactly the point I'am trying to make they are not comparable!

We're trying to help you realize they're more comparable than you think. Even outside of world champion weightlifting, even being able to bench press 250 or more is something a LOT of people will never be able to do, regardless of how much they work at it. That's less than a quarter of what world champion weightlifters can accomplish, yet I'd be willing to bet at least 50-75% of the population would be unable to do it even with regular strength training.

Hitting the ball 300 yards is another thing that I think at least 50-75% of the population is just physically incapable of doing. You can go on and on about the merits of strength training all you want, but when McIlroy went from a limp noodle to the muscular figure he is today he gained about 6 yards in total.

There is benefit to strength training, yes, but the average golfer won't hit the ball 300 yards as a result of it. The benefits of strength training are the "icing on the cake", so to speak, that let's a golfer at the top squeeze out the last drops of their potential once their technique has been perfected. It can help amateurs swing faster too, but the benefits won't be very obvious to most players since most players are too inconsistent to be able to take advantage of the marginal gains it provides.

[mvmac]

10 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

There is benefit to strength training, yes, but the average golfer won't hit the ball 300 yards as a result of it. The benefits of strength training are the "icing on the cake", so to speak, that let's a golfer at the top squeeze out the last drops of their potential once their technique has been perfected. It can help amateurs swing faster too, but the benefits won't be very obvious to most players since most players are too inconsistent to be able to take advantage of the marginal gains it provides.

Yep, well said.

[Lihu]

Pros hit it far. Even a little no name one who's possibly 130 pound dripping wet. . . Try to outhit a guy who hits driver/PW into a 509 yard par 5, then a 522 yard one into the wind driver/7i and flies the green to boot?

Can't do it? That's why we're not pros.

Another thing, I'm not buying the arguments that pros hit on fairways that consistently give them 60 yards of roll. They just hit far, that's pretty much it as far as I've seen in person.

[uitar9]

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

Dad-bod. Lol. Got some dad jeans to go w/that? 

I'm old. Got the grandad-wardrobe. Comfy when golfing. Allows me to turn easily on the muni, at about 195, watching the other 20 + Hcps, hit it past me, all of 20 yards. Then tell me "that one went 290"

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, uitar9 said:

I'm old. Got the grandad-wardrobe. Comfy when golfing. Allows me to turn easily on the muni, at about 195, watching the other 20 + Hcps, hit it past me, all of 20 yards. Then tell me "that one went 290"

You hit 270 yards? Nice!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kidding. . .

Yeah, I'm also getting older as well and don't consider myself a long hitter either, and it is interesting that the average drive is 208 yards and that's what almost everyone does. . .that's why a pros 274 yard carry is so impressive.

[Bballref]

16 minutes ago, uitar9 said:

I'm old. Got the grandad-wardrobe. Comfy when golfing. Allows me to turn easily on the muni, at about 195, watching the other 20 + Hcps, hit it past me, all of 20 yards. Then tell me "that one went 290"

I'm no spring chicken either. However even at my advanced age I can still hit it 220-230 which are good yardage numbers to know whenever I smack one somewhere where I shouldn't. At least then I have some idea on where to start looking for the ball. 

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, Bballref said:

I'm no spring chicken either. However even at my advanced age I can still hit it 220-230 which are good yardage numbers to know whenever I smack one somewhere where I shouldn't. At least then I have some idea on where to start looking for the ball. 

You mean you don't drive the cart pin high on a 400 yard par 4 looking for tee shots?

[lastings]

Another thing to add that seems to be getting lost here is that the pros simply have better swings.   Muscle or not.   

I'm 6'2" 180 lbs, but not strong at all.   I can consistently drive the ball 285 (when I hit it well).   But, a year ago, I could only hit 260. tops.   but, I've learned to make a bigger shoulder turn with a more straight left arm, make the first move in my downswing to keep my right elbow in tight, and come from a more inside to out swing path.   just those simple changes put more weight behind the ball, have changed my ball fight and easily added 25 yds to my drive.   easily.   that 260 number above was a rare occasion, and was probably an accident when it was happening.  the 285 number now is basically every drive i hit straight.   so, in actuality, it's probably added 35 yds.  

I still have a relatively non-existent hip turn and I'm not getting my weight to the front foot quick enough.  once I get those issues corrected, how many more yds do you think I'm gonna get?  10? 15?  maybe more?  

So, simply putting a better swing on the ball can add in the neighborhood of 50 yds.   more muscle might get me 10.  So..   you wanna hit it out there like the pros, I say you'll have much more success spending your time on the driving range rather than in the weight room.  

 

 

 

[Bballref]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

You mean you don't drive the cart pin high on a 400 yard par 4 looking for tee shots?

I walk mostly so it's easy to pace off the distance. Actually measured my stride a couple years ago and it was pretty much a yard at a time. I suppose I'm like most golfers, if I try to kill it then it goes nowhere but if I just try to stay in rhythm I hit it pretty good. I don't try to emulate it but people have told me my swing looks somewhat like Ernie Els except he hits it farther and with accuracy. Why does Els' swing seem so effortless whereas other guys look like they're coming out of their shoes?

Edited April 11, 2017 by Bballref

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, Bballref said:

I walk mostly so it's easy to pace off the distance. Actually measured my stride a couple years ago and it was pretty much a yard at a time. I suppose I'm like most golfers, if I try to kill it then it goes nowhere but if I just try to stay in rhythm I hit it pretty good. I don't try to emulate it but people have told me my swing looks somewhat like Ernie Els except he hits it farther and with accuracy. Why does Els' swing seem so effortless whereas other guys look like there coming out of their shoes?

Maybe it's being out of sequence? Ernie actually swings quite fast.

It's probably just because the rest of his body is in sync with his swing that he doesn't look "jerky" like most of us?

[lastings]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

Maybe it's being out of sequence? Ernie actually swings quite fast.

It's probably just because the rest of his body is in sync with his swing that he doesn't look "jerky" like most of us?

Like Fred Couples.   Freddie always looked like he was just chill with every swing.  in actually, tons of clubhead speed.  

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, lastings said:

So, simply putting a better swing on the ball can add in the neighborhood of 50 yds.   more muscle might get me 10.  So..   you wanna hit it out there like the pros, I say you'll have much more success spending your time on the driving range rather than in the weight room. 

I think this develops specific muscles used in the swing rather than ones used for whatever motion you are doing in the weight room.

Just now, lastings said:

Like Fred Couples.   Freddie always looked like he was just chill with every swing.  in actually, tons of clubhead speed.  

So true.

[Bballref]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Maybe it's being out of sequence? Ernie actually swings quite fast.

It's probably just because the rest of his body is in sync with his swing that he doesn't look "jerky" like most of us?

That makes me feel better actually. My swing then is an optical illusion for someone who thinks it looks like Ernie's. Personally I never thought mine looked like Els' swing but obviously what others see is how they interpret his swing, slow and effortless, when its nothing of the sort. I'd love to unleash steady drives over 250 but as I said previous, when I try to kill it the results are almost always bad.