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Why do the pros hit it so far? Here's my take


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Here's how I've heard Jim McClean explain it. The X-Factor is just identifying that the differences in the amount of rotation between the hips and shoulders. On the backswing the shoulders will turn more than the hips and on the downswing the hips will be more open than the shoulders. Those differentials are what the X-Factor is. If I remember correctly McClean said the X-Factor data got misinterpreted to mean that you should restrict your hips and make as big of a shoulder turn as possible to create the most torque/stretch.

Basically if you have a good pivot you'll naturally have good X-Factor numbers, it's just how our bodies are built, I can't turn my shoulders 90° while also turning my hips 90°.

Poorer players will create less X-Factor on the downswing because they have more of an "over the top" type of move. They're just spin out in order to move low point forward. You would see this with a lot of players that slide the hips to the right on the backswing.


To get it back on topic and answer the OP's question, pros make a big turn going back and by the time they get to impact their hips are well open. In order to do that they have to rotate really fast. Combine that with hitting it very solid and you'll have someone who's going to hit the ball a long ways.

 

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Mike McLoughlin

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Interesting topic. I was watching little Sergio hit drives in the Masters and marveling. You know what I notice - listen to the audio, When guys like him and DJ swing a driver the whistle of the air over the club head is an octave higher than the sound most of us make..,speeeeed. 

Im a strong guy with good flexibility. Of course I relish the thought of hitting drives like that. But, I decided to really learn proper mechanics. If I get that down then maybe I'll swing for the fences someday. 

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I hear you on the swoosh, mine is a lot lower than what I hear from the pros but hey I'm 60, not 25, lol.  I like to try and swing really fast on occasion, just to see what happens. It usually causes a huge high slice for me but I think it is still a good exercise to help maintain what I can swing at. My driver speed has remained pretty consistent for a few years at about 105 but I have been hitting the ball more solid with better center of the face contact which I think is more important.

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4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

X-factor is a myth. What matters more is fast arms and torso speed. 

You can tell someone to get more hip and shoulder separation, but if this causes them to turn at the same speed or maybe slower them how does that increase distance? 

I think it might be more that amateurs just don't turn enough to begin with. 

X factor just means putting it all together. 

In the race of life, always back self-interest. At least you know it's trying.

 

 

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On 4/10/2017 at 11:54 AM, GolfLug said:

 there is no denying that strength training (not just bulking out boutique muscles) can only be beneficial.

I've read the last few pages here and I guess there are a lot of people that apparently have a need deny it

All other things being equal, for each individual, improved fitness leads to an improved life - no matter how much couch potatos want to disbelieve - it's a choice, no biggie - different strokes for different folks, but why some fight the concept so much is confusing. 

I also wonder why those that poo poo fitness training tend to be the same people that feel golf is a 'sport' rather than an activity.  I'd think the correlation would be the opposite.

Frankly, IMHO I think distance is a lot about speed, natural talent and fitness, and pure center-of-the-face-sweetspot contact.  But I can't conceive of any way improving strength could be a downside unless one crosses into a ridiculous set of outlyer assumptions....

Bill - 

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10 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

Frankly, IMHO I think distance is a lot about speed, natural talent and fitness, and pure center-of-the-face-sweetspot contact.  But I can't conceive of any way improving strength could be a downside unless one crosses into a ridiculous set of outlyer assumptions....

I can't speak for everyone in this thread, but I certainly have not been saying that there is a downside to strength training.  I'm just saying if you want to learn to hit the ball as far as the pro's do, you'll have much better luck finding your answer from a swing coach rather than looking for it in the weight room. 

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25 minutes ago, lastings said:

 you'll have much better luck finding your answer from a swing coach rather than looking for it in the weight room. 

those are not mutually exclusive options

(though if it were, I'd agree)

Bill - 

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IMHO, pros (or high skill, high speed players) create most of their speed using  angular momentum (rotation) about their spinal axis and us crumb chompers use more linear momentum in proportion (we sway - more weight shift back to right and forth to left at best). Linear momentum is great for lot of other speed motions like pitching (baseball), but golf doesn't care for it.

I think this is why steady head and weight forward are the FIRST two keys. For eg. when I try to maximize shoulder turn (increase my 'x' factor), I invariably find myself shifting back to right on the BS. That's automatically a 'leak'.

Edited by GolfLug

Vishal S.

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3 hours ago, Shorty said:

X factor just means putting it all together. 

Not in golf, no. It's one of the "defined terms."

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Weight lifting with full range of motion should increase ones flexibility (unless one get's so bulky that the muscles get in the way).  Body builders are actually very flexible.  I would guess both increases in strength and flexibility would result in increased swing speed.  Still, I think swing speed mostly comes from technique and innate ability.  Look no further than Justin Thomas who at 145 lbs. is one of the longer hitters on the tour. 

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I watched one of my playing partners carry a level 300 to a green over water. Then, 3-putted for a par. Unbelievable shot. I know a couple guys who can do that with good regularity. Tall, DJ look-alikes. One was a pitcher in college, which seems to help.

Custom fit RBZ irons. Taylormade RBZ driver. Some crappy old high-bounce Macgregor wedge and an even older Mizuno 5 wood. Haven't settled on a ball yet - still looking. Decades of football, weightlifting and boxing came together to create the world's worst golfer. I'm slowly correcting that now. 

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On 4/11/2017 at 2:43 PM, Bballref said:

Why does Els' swing seem so effortless whereas other guys look like they're coming out of their shoes?

He's hitting it plenty hard with lots of effort.

 

ernie_els_swing_sequence_11.jpg

Colin P.

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26 minutes ago, colin007 said:

He's hitting it plenty hard with lots of effort.

 

ernie_els_swing_sequence_11.jpg

I think the question is, why in full speed does it look like he's swinging so much easier than many others?

This is a wild guess, but ... part of the reason might be his height.  He is 6'-3", so he can get the clubhead moving faster than a shorter guy can while parts further up the chain (like his shoulders) could very well be moving slower.

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27 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I think the question is, why in full speed does it look like he's swinging so much easier than many others?

This is a wild guess, but ... part of the reason might be his height.  He is 6'-3", so he can get the clubhead moving faster than a shorter guy can while parts further up the chain (like his shoulders) could very well be moving slower.

Rhythm, sequencing, balance.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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I have no specific idea why or how pros hit it so far. I only know that even when we older, high capper hacks who aren't very athletic do a few (or five) things closer to a proper swing we can get that anomaly of a shot that has so much more energy coming off the face. Yet, even on those rare shots I'm not coming very close to the pros.

I'm going to assume in addition to unbelievable natural ability, a typical 25 year old professional golfer does golf-specific strength training, hits the sweet spot every time, and has flawless mechanics. Of course he's going to hit his 4iron longer than I hit my driver!

However, if I compared my strength/speed to that of other high level athletes from other sports, the gap between how far I hit compared to a PGA pro isn't that mind-boggling.

MLB Pitcher: 92mph.

MLB Hitting (HR distances): 395 ft. 

NFL Football Sprint: Even some lineman can run a <4.6 sec 40 yd dash.

NFL Football Powerlifting: Many can benchpress nearly twice their body weight. 

My 220yd drive travels 73% of a pro's 300yd drive. If I applied that 73% to the benchmarks above, I'd get these targets:

Pitching: 67mph... Nope.

Hitting: 288 ft... Nope.

Sprinting: 6.3 sec 40 yd... Probably, yes.

Benchpress: 1.4 times my body weight.... No way.

To me, the thing that's most impressive of high level athletics is the skill that comes along with all that speed and power. No different with golf.

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Jon

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Working out is not the way to ss. 

Imo it's good tempo and swinging through the ball that makes it go.

Technique is so important but I don't mean specific body positions I just mean the club working as it should in synch with the golfer.

Not everyone will be a bomber.   

Imo physical strength means nothing if the golfer doesn't know how to swing.

 

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Good mechanics and knowledge of the swing will get you distance alone. Strength training can take you further from there. I'm 5"11 160 and can swing the club at 117 mph, purely because I can turn my shoulder beyond my chin, I have a decently strong core to rotate rapidly, and have God given monkey arms (My wingspan is 6"4). Teaching distance is hard.

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Some of the numbers you see on TV are inflated - whether they intend to or not. You have to remember "building hype" around star athletes is how they sell the product on PGA tour. That being said you can't compare old players to new. They use a very different golf ball - that is where the majority of the distance comes from.  The average carry on the PGA tour is probably around the 270 ish mark. Average distance is 290. The longest guys on tour can carry it 300 +. 

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