Is Golf a Sport or a Game?

[ganjagolfer]

the fine line that separates golf from a real sport such as baseball, hockey, basketball or football, in golf the contestants at worst smoke a cigarette or have a beer or drink but in a real sport, the athletes are often caught doing all types of illegal drugs such as cocaine and marijuana in addition to heavy boozing. real athletes as well are often having skirmishes with the law; doomestic disputes, fights, unregistered firearm possession, etc.

[denver_nuggs_15]

Professional baseball players HAVE drank and smoked while playing... and this really isn't some magic formula to solve the problem either.

Who? You have to show me some proof on this one. If they did drink or smoke, it was IN THE DUGOUT not on the playing field. People drink and smoke WHILE on the course and even during shots.

Not true at all... many golfers are every much as an athlete as some linemen, shotput throwers, bicylers, etc., etc.

That may be true. However, in other sports it is REQUIRED that you be athletic. Bicyclers, linemen, shotput thowers, etc. have to be athletic to compete. Golfers do not.

Some of the best golfers that I have seen in person are not athletic by any stretch of the imagination. They're just good at golf. It may help them to be athletic, but it is not a requirement.

Here's what I know... schools have golf "SPORTS" programs... both colleges and high schools when I buy a golf book/magazine... it's in the sports section ESPN covers golf the swing IS an athletic move

My school gives you a varsity sports jacket if you're in band. Band is not a sport.

Where else would someone put a golf book/magazine...We need to make a new category for golf. ESPN covers car auctions (not a sport) and used to cover Magic: The Gathering card game contests (not a sport). Saying that something is an athletic move does not make it a sport. Look at swing sets. Swinging on a swing set is undoubtedly an athletic move. However, it is not a sport.

[JaY_B]

Who? You have to show me some proof on this one. If they did drink or smoke, it was IN THE DUGOUT not on the playing field. People drink and smoke WHILE on the course and even during shots.

Will it surprise you if I tell you a golfer uses more energy in a 5 hour round of golf than any baseball player will throughout a baseball game? strange but true.... so is golf still not a sport?

[denver_nuggs_15]

Will it surprise you if I tell you a golfer uses more energy in a 5 hour round of golf than any baseball player will throughout a baseball game? strange but true.... so is golf still not a sport?

That doesn't matter...at all. And you're wrong. I actually looked up how many calories you burn during each activity for an hour. It turns out that fast pitch or slow pitch softball burns more calories than walking and carrying your clubs. If you are going to bring up statistics, make sure that they're right. 84.7% of statistics are made up on the spot.

http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/c...earch=baseball Check that link out...all the proof you need. It still doesn't matter. Regardless of the number of calories burned, golf is not a sport. You don't need to burn x number of calories to be considered a sport. Golf is a physical activity. See-saw is a physical activity. Just because an action requires physical movement doesn't categorize it as a sport. You do NOT need to be an athlete to be good at golf. You MUST be an athlete to be good at every other sport.

[Fourputt]

That doesn't matter...at all. And you're wrong. I actually looked up how many calories you burn during each activity for an hour. It turns out that fast pitch or slow pitch softball burns more calories than walking and carrying your clubs. If you are going to bring up statistics, make sure that they're right. 84.7% of statistics are made up on the spot.

You also don't have to be an athlete to participate in a sport. According to your earlier post you are still in school? In that case, IMHO, you don't have the life experience to even form an educated opinion on just what a sport constitutes. You have a very narrow view of the subject which is confined to and defined by your meager experience base. This is, IMHO why you can't step back and see that your rigid view isn't how life really is.

The real world isn't painted in black and white, and the subject of sports isn't black and white. Just because golf falls into one of those gray areas does not disqualify it from the classification of being a sport. It may not be a vigorous sport, it may not require a finely trained athlete to participate, but that does not and will not change the fact that is still a sport.

[DaveLeeNC]

That doesn't matter...at all. And you're wrong. I actually looked up how many calories you burn during each activity for an hour. It turns out that fast pitch or slow pitch softball burns more calories than walking and carrying your clubs. If you are going to bring up statistics, make sure that they're right. 84.7% of statistics are made up on the spot.

WOW - EVERY other sport?!?. A lot is excluded here in that case. Major League pitchers (in the American League you don't even have to run the bases), field goal kickers in the NFL, the NFL has most certainly had any number of quarterbacks who hardly qualified as athletes in the sense being talked about here, goalies in hockey, etc.

I can certainly imagine a sensible definition of "sport" that would exclude golf, but I think folks would be surprised at what else is also excluded. dave

[denver_nuggs_15]

You also don't have to be an athlete to participate in a sport. According to your earlier post you are still in school? In that case, IMHO, you don't have the life experience to even form an educated opinion on just what a sport constitutes. You have a very narrow view of the subject which is confined to and defined by your meager experience base. This is, IMHO why you can't step back and see that your rigid view isn't how life really is.

Wow...seriously? I don't have the life experience to form an educated opinion on just what a sport constitutes? Good call. You don't know how much or how little life experience I have. For you to assume that I have little experience is very ignorant and insulting.

Just because I am in school does not mean that I am stupid or ill-educated on a specific subject. Among all of the adults that I have talked to, I can honestly say that I possess more knowledge in certain areas of studies (Calculus/Math, Economics, Physics, etc.) than they do. My favorite is economics. Whenever I speak to adults (family and friends) about the subject, everyone keeps telling me how I am wrong about the subject. Everyone says that what the US gov't does is wrong and all this other stuff. The fact is I have studied Economics, both Micro and Macro. For adults to assume that they are more knowledgable in a certain subject because they have "life experience" is absurd. It's the same thing here. I probably have a better view than most members here (of what is and is not a sport). I STILL PLAY SPORTS! When was the last time you ran a full court basketball game? Or played a real baseball game? Or ran a quater mile against others? Answer me those questions. My guess here is that you only play golf right now in your life. You only have this particular view of what you think a sport is. I play golf, basketball, and volleyball. I have played baseball in the very near past. I play these things competitively. There's a huge difference between golf and the rest. Don't try comparing the real world to sports; it's a very bad comparison. Life may not be painted black and white, but sports is. Something either is or is not a sport: it is that simple.

WOW - EVERY other sport?!?. A lot is excluded here in that case. Major League pitchers (in the American League you don't even have to run the bases), field goal kickers in the NFL, the NFL has most certainly had any number of quarterbacks who hardly qualified as athletes in the sense being talked about here, goalies in hockey, etc. I can certainly imagine a sensible definition of "sport" that would exclude golf, but I think folks would be surprised at what else is also excluded.

The pitchers in the AL...dumb example. They are athletes. Every single pitcher in the AL is an athlete. Practice with them and you'll find out. Every single player in a professional sports league is an athlete...because they have to be.

[Fourputt]

I probably have a better view than most members here (of what is and is not a sport). I STILL PLAY SPORTS! When was the last time you ran a full court basketball game? Or played a real baseball game? Or ran a quater mile against others? Answer me those questions. My guess here is that you only play golf right now in your life. You only have this particular view of what you think a sport is. I play golf, basketball, and volleyball. I have played baseball in the very near past. I play these things competitively. There's a huge difference between golf and the rest.

You still play sports... which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. The sports I have participated in (aside from the

sport of golf) probably don't qualify in your book either. I played softball with a bunch of guys who brought a cooler of beer to every game. I was a recreational skier, whitewater kayaker, backpacker, and now I'm a golfer and a scuba diver. I have both fished and hunted in the past. I never played organized sports in school (unless little league baseball counts, and I was no athlete even then). I guess in your book that makes me unqualified to even discuss the subject, despite the fact that I'm 62 years old and have been an interested observer of all kinds of sports for most of my life. Education is not an indicator of good judgment, it's only a small piece of the puzzle. Good judgment comes from observation, experience, compassion, and several other factors which can only be gained by living, not by going to school. Trust me, school isn't the real world either. I was once a freshly educated know everything kid too. It wasn't until years later that I realized my education had barely begun when I left school . I can't do calculus simply because I never needed it for anything I do. You probably can't walk into a machine shop and set up and run a CNC milling machine to make a functional and handsome putter head from a solid block of stainless steel either.... I can. All that indicates is that I have training in different areas from you. And neither your area of expertise nor mine has anything to do with this subject. One thing that most reasonable people develop with age is a degree of tolerance, and that includes seeing the gray in between the black and the white. Hopefully someday you too will find that middle ground. Happy holidays to you. And BTW, look at about half the pitchers in any club's bullpen. If those guys are athletes, then........ The simple ability to throw a baseball a 9 or 10 times every 2nd or 3rd day is NOT an athletic endeavor. I rest my case.

[denver_nuggs_15]

You still play sports... which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. The sports I have participated in (aside from the

You played sports. I have an immediate understanding of what sports are; I still play sports. Over time, you may have forgotten what it feels like to play those sports. For you to assume that you are more knowledgable in a certain subject because you have "life experience" is absurd.

If you are going to say that I can't form opinions because I have a lack of "life experience" I will say that you cannot form an educated opinion on sports if you do not currently participate in such activities. We're not talking about philosophy here. There is a black and white when it comes to sports. Here's what the article actually concludes: So, is golf a sport? Answer: It certainly is A sport, but probably not The Only sport you would need to play if you really want to get fit. But getting fit on the treadmill or in the weight room will definitely diminish fatigue on the golf course and, in turn, help you play better. ``The study shows there's significant energy expenditure in golf, more than bowling and some other sports it's been compared to,'' Wolkodoff said. ``There are a lot of sports that don't have this level of energy expenditure.'' All that it says is that the more fit you are, the better you play. That is true for activities that are certainly not sports (i.e. - chess). Then it says that you burn "significat energy" and "more than bowling and some other sports." That's not what a sport is. Sports are not defined by the amount of energy used. Honestly, is it required to be an athlete (or athletic) to be very good golfer? I contend that it is not required. (Baseball players are athletes. Their cardio is ridiculous. Those who say that they are not in great shape are uneducated.)

[NM Golf]

In golf, though, you can drink a beer and smoke WHILE on the course...WHILE PLAYING! In tennis, football, soccer, hockey, etc. it is impossible to do this while on the court/field.

Have you ever seen an adult league playing any of these games? They do exactly what you just said is impossible. There was a goalie at one of the games I watched who smoked a cigarette the entire game. I played in an adult baseball league where the guys used to take beers into the outfiled with them.

Basically when its for fun people will both drink and smoke. When its at the highest level none drink and very few smoke.

Golf is very diverse in this topic. I beleive for the players that are aspiring to be the best they can be and advance to the next level, golf is a sport that involves maximizing your strength and flexibility as well as you mental ability.

Here here! Very well said. Just like I said above. At the high levels those guys are athletes, pure and simple. The weekend hacker who drinks and smokes, well noth so much.

Tiger Woods is an athlete...he's one out of the whole world. If it is not required that you be an athlete to compete at a high level, it is not a sport.

I think Camilo Villegas might disagree with you. They days of the fat non-athletic golfer are quickly coming to an end. The best players in the world work out like other athletes. In golf today to be able to compete at the highest level you HAVE to be an athlete. Sure there are exceptions but there are in every sport. Every sport has the guys who don't look the part, but they get by with some other skills.

You're right. If you don't have to be athletic to be good, then it isn't a sport. Golf doesn't compare to any other real sports that I have played. Golf is different. When I get a spike in volleyball, everyone gets pumped. Your heart is pumping like crazy, your team is going nuts, etc. When I hit a long putt on a golf course, it's different. You don't get the same feeling.

As a 3 sport athlete (Baseball, football, and wrestling) in high school and a Division I college baseball player, you have no idea what you are talking about. Golf is every bit the same feeling, maybe even better. In golf you have to learn to control your emotions unlike other sports. But to tell me when you are in a partner tournament and you or your partner makes a great shot to take the lead, you don't get pumped, well that just does more to say you have no clue.

Seriously though, when was the last time you played a competitive sport (i.e.-basketball, football, soccer, volleyball, etc.)? At a high level (varsity HS or college)? There's a major difference between adrenaline rushes in golf and those other sports. I'm a two-sport varsity athlete. There's a HUGE difference b/t golf and volleyball/basketball. When you get pumped, it's just different. I can't explain it, but it's different.

Nope its not. And the last time I played a competitive sport wasn't that long ago. Before Going Div I I played JC baseball and went to the national championships. Played on TV and in front of 10,000+ fans in the stands. You have no clue. I get the same fulfillment playing in big tournaments around the state. I still get pumped up, ready to go. Same feeling no different.

You do NOT need to be an athlete to be good at golf. You MUST be an athlete to be good at every other sport.

This may be the dumbest thing you said all along. Are you kidding me. The guys on the PGA Tour may not be able to run fast or throw 95 mph fastballs but they have the muscles, dexterity, and hand eye coordination to hit a golf ball unbelievably good. Golf is just a different athletic motion than volleyball, baseball, football, etc. Just because you are an athlete doesn't mean you will be good at any sport. I won 9 varsity letters in high school in 3 sports along with tons of other awards. I can't play basketball worth a crap, I can't play soccer either (not that I would ever want to). Its just different movements different tyoes of athletes. Someone said something about fat golfers, ever seen a skinny NFL lineman. Big guys can be athletes too.

Wow...seriously? I don't have the life experience to form an educated opinion on just what a sport constitutes? Good call. You don't know how much or how little life experience I have. For you to assume that I have little experience is very ignorant and insulting.

Nope Nope Nope. I have more experience than you. My family is huge into athletics. My family has played and still does coach at the college and high school level. You have no clue.

Don't try comparing the real world to sports; it's a very bad comparison.

You are right including golfers, to be at a high level you have to be an athlete. I take golf very seriously, I practice and play to be the best I can be. I compete. Golf is a sport. I am an athlete. Who knows what you are?

[JaY_B]

That doesn't matter...at all. And you're wrong. I actually looked up how many calories you burn during each activity for an hour. It turns out that fast pitch or slow pitch softball burns more calories than walking and carrying your clubs. If you are going to bring up statistics, make sure that they're right. 84.7% of statistics are made up on the spot.

202.125 (Kcals) in 30 minutes carrying your clubs - Golf.

183.75 (Kcals) in 30 minutes softball or baseball fast or slow pitching. The statistic you focused on being 'Walking and carrying your clubs' I assume means a mix of walking with and without a bag on your back for 30 minutes, which doesn't really offer a direct and accurate comparison. If the baseball player is pitching continuously for 30 minutes then the golfer would have to be carrying the bag for 30 minutes to offer fair results. So um, thats taken from the same site, I have quoted statistics that prove you wrong, I have also read studies in to this, so don't question my accuracy here unless you can counter it with correct evidence

[denver_nuggs_15]

Have you ever seen an adult league playing any of these games? They do exactly what you just said is impossible. There was a goalie at one of the games I watched who smoked a cigarette the entire game. I played in an adult baseball league where the guys used to take beers into the outfiled with them.

Thanks Colonel Mustard, now I have a clue. Regardless of the amount of experience that you have, you may still be wrong. That is a pretty simple concept to understand. People are wrong. They can be educated to the fullest and have years of experience, but they can be wrong.

Saying that golfers work out like athletes means nothing. Competitive chess players work out...like athletes. My friend is a top chess player in the state. He works out, along with every other serious chess player. Since golfers work out like athletes, then golf is a sport. Since chess players work out like athletes, then chess is a sport. Stop saying that you have more experience and that your family has more experience. You wouldn't know if my father was the assistant coach of the New York Knicks or my mother was a sports agent. You don't know and you keep assuming. My final problem is that you USED to play competitive sports. USED to. We forget what it feels like to hit a game-winning jumper, or get a basehit to tie the game, or catch that touchdown pass in OT. I still play sports. I play golf. I have won golf matches on one putt before. I have won basketball games on one play before. There is a different feeling. I am not saying that it is bad. The feelings are different. You get pumped differently.

202.125 (Kcals) in 30 minutes walking and carrying your clubs - Golf. 183.75 (Kcals) in 30 minutes softball or baseball fast or slow pitching. So um, thats taken from the same site, I have quoted statistics that prove you wrong, I have also read studies in to this, so don't question my accuracy here unless you can counter it with correct evidence

I am throwing the red flag on this one. Here is direct evidence:

Activity: golf, walking and carrying clubs Category: sports Calories burned: 165.375 (Kcals) in 30 minutes for a person weighing 70 kg Activity: softball or baseball, fast or slow pitch, general Category: sports Calories burned: 183.75 (Kcals) in 30 minutes for a person weighing 70 kg Let me say again that 42.4 % of statistics are made of the spot. What we are aruguing about does not pertain to whether or not golf is a sport. I checked the site and it gives different statistics for the same thing. (Walking AND carrying clubs burns fewer calories than just carrying clubs.) Doesn't make sense. Sports are not defined by the number of calories burned. End of story on the calorie argument. I understand what everyone is saying. However, golf is different than sports. It is more technical than most sports and requires more thinking than most sports. It should not be classified as a sport. It should have its own category (along with bowling, Nascar, etc.). To say that everything that requires a physical motion is a sport includes activities such as see-saw, drumming, etc. Someone needs to come up with a very good definition of "sport" that fits other "traditional" sports but limits simple activities (see-saw, etc.).

[JaY_B]

I am throwing the red flag on this one. Here is direct evidence:

Activity:

golf carrying clubs Category: sports Calories burned: 202.125 (Kcals) in 30 minutes for a person weighing 70 kg

Let me say again that 42.4 % of statistics are made of the spot.

Why do you keep saying this, I have not made up any statistic, and everything I have said I can back up with academia?

I understand what everyone is saying. However, golf is different than sports. It is more technical than most sports and requires more thinking than most sports. It should not be classified as a sport. It should have its own category

Please justify this, the use of strategy and technique should never disqualify something from being a sport

To say that everything that requires a physical motion is a sport includes activities such as see-saw, drumming, etc.

It is quite obvious the golf swing as a physical motion uses much more energy, requires more effort, speed and precision than anything you have mentioned above.

Someone needs to come up with a very good definition of "sport" that fits other "traditional" sports but limits simple activities (see-saw, etc.).

A definition of sport taken from the Oxford Dictionary:

"A game or competitive activity, esp. an outdoor one involving physical exertion. A person behaving in a specified way, esp. regarding games, rules, etc." Sums it up nicely, golf is a sport, no matter how much you try to refute it :).

[NM Golf]

Thanks Colonel Mustard, now I have a clue.

Obviously from you're comments you don't.

Regardless of the amount of experience that you have, you may still be wrong. That is a pretty simple concept to understand. People are wrong. They can be educated to the fullest and have years of experience, but they can be wrong.

And therefor you're wrong. Golf at least at its highest levels is most definately a sport.

Saying that golfers work out like athletes means nothing. Competitive chess players work out...like athletes. My friend is a top chess player in the state. He works out, along with every other serious chess player. Since golfers work out like athletes, then golf is a sport. Since chess players work out like athletes, then chess is a sport.

Where did I say working out makes an athlete? I said they work out like athletes do.

Stop saying that you have more experience and that your family has more experience. You wouldn't know if my father was the assistant coach of the New York Knicks or my mother was a sports agent. You don't know and you keep assuming.

Are they? Well then I do have more experience. Probably a lot more.

My final problem is that you USED to play competitive sports. USED to. We forget what it feels like to hit a game-winning jumper, or get a basehit to tie the game, or catch that touchdown pass in OT. I still play sports. I play golf. I have won golf matches on one putt before. I have won basketball games on one play before. There is a different feeling. I am not saying that it is bad. The feelings are different. You get pumped differently.

Maybe you have short term memory loss, but the whole attraction to golf for me is after my baseball career came to a screeching halt the only thing that gave me that same competitive feeling was golf. I am a competition junkie and an athlete and golf gives me my competitive fire.

[denver_nuggs_15]

Obviously from you're comments you don't.

Just because you have experience does not make you right. It is very simple. Experience does not equate to being correct...ever. Saying that you played x number of D1 sports doesn't mean that you know more than me. Stop thinking that you have so much experience. It doesn't matter. You can still be wrong. My whole point was that you DON'T know who I am, who my parents are, etc. For all you know, I am a professional golfer, or the top recruit for lacrosse. My dad could be the coach for the Redskins. You don't know. Stop thinking that you do. I may have more experience than you. Experience is not a valid point in this discussion. You still USED to play baseball, etc. It's easy to forget the feeling that we once had WHILE playing. I'll be the first to admit it. I forget what it feels like to hit a homerun in baseball. But I know what it feels like to get a killer spike in volleyball (because I currently play) and I know what it feels like to drain a long putt or chip. The feelings are different. Stop thinking that different means bad.

A definition of sport taken from the Oxford Dictionary: "A game or competitive activity, esp. an outdoor one involving physical exertion. A person behaving in a specified way, esp. regarding games, rules, etc."

The 'esp' in the definition means that part is optional. It is not required to fit the definition. That being said, we are left with "A game or competitive activity." Chess, checkers, any board game, etc. It is not a good definition. It does not exclude activities that we know are not sports.

I stopped typing mid-thought when I was talking about how golf differs from other sports. It is technical and everything, but what I didn't mention was that it requires significantly less physical strain. It deserves a class of its own. What other sport can you participate (i.e. hit a shot), then walk and wait, then hit a shot, then walk and wait, etc.? (The discussion isn't about baseball so don't mention it. Some don't consider that a sport either.) Golf is a competition. Golf is crazy fun. Golf does not require that you be athletic. (I have met and seen ridiculously good golfers who are not athletic...a few of them were top amatuers in the state and two were even pro at a time [look up Bill Britton]) That's where I have a problem with calling it a sport. I don't mind calling it a physical endeavor or activity. I wouldn't mind making a category just for golf, Nascar, etc. I just don't think it's a sport. Finally, stop taking personal shots at me. Saying that I have "short term memory loss" and all this other stuff is ridiculous for a golf forum. I'm pretty sure that I didn't take any personal shots at anyone else. If I did, I appologize and it will not happen again.

[iacas]

My whole point was that you DON'T know who I am, who my parents are, etc. For all you know, I am a professional golfer, or the top recruit for lacrosse. My dad could be the coach for the Redskins. You don't know. Stop thinking that you do. I may have more experience than you. Experience is not a valid point in this discussion.

We know a little more than you seem to think. We know that you're 18. We know that you list your "occupation" as "caddie" and that you live in New Jersey. We know that your ISP is optonline.net. And we know a bit more than that.

Stop thinking that different means bad.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. I'm sorry you don't seem to get a thrill from competing in golf, but suffice to say I do. Tiger Woods does. And Danny does too. I still actively play a lot of sports, and I was awfully active in high school too.

What's "the feeling you get when you succeed" have to do with answering the question at hand, anyway?

It is technical and everything, but what I didn't mention was that it requires significantly less physical strain.

Right, like flexibility...

What other sport can you participate (i.e. hit a shot), then walk and wait, then hit a shot, then walk and wait, etc.? (The discussion isn't about baseball so don't mention it. Some don't consider that a sport either.)

Right. Some don't consider baseball a sport...

How about pool (billiards)? Archery? Could go on...

Golf does not require that you be athletic.

If you want to be any good at it, you've got to be athletic. Say what you want about John Daly as a person, but he's got athletic talent.

Are offensive lineman "athletes"? And that's a rhetorical question - don't bother answering.

(I have met and seen ridiculously good golfers who are not athletic...a few of them were top amatuers in the state and two were even pro at a time [look up Bill Britton])

Bill Britton is obviously capable of making the athletic moves required to hit a golf ball incredibly more often than you.

[bradpet]

Is golf a 'sport' or 'hobby'?

Does it really matter? It's probably one of those questions best avoided because it causes more arguments than sensible discussion.

[PEZGolf]

Is golf a 'sport' or 'hobby'?

You are right. This is an old, old topic. I have pointed out that Jack Nicklaus entitled his book "The Greatest Game of All" and not "The Greatest Sport of All" for very specific reasons. For me, here is the bottom line: I love golf. Basketball has been my favorite sport but, at the age of 60, I cannot be competitive any more. In golf, I get plenty of exercise, love being outdoors, play with my friends and family members, and am competitive. Golf intrigues me. No one ever conquers it, no matter how great he or she is. To me, Jack was right. Golf is the Greatest Game of All. That is all that is important.