Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

[jbishop15]

I believe Tiger may already be the greatest player of all time; it's close, whether or not he gets 18.

I think, however, that he nowhere approaches Jack in terms of overall legacy. Sure, there's 30 years to go but I don't see Tiger 3 decades from now with the same influence Jack has today. From his design work to charities to The Memorial, Jack has put a huge footprint on the game.

Could there be a time when people get excited about playing a TW-designed course as they (I) do with Jack's many treasures? Perhaps but I don't see it.

Could one day the World Challenge have the same prestige as The Memorial? I suppose so but doubt it.

So, I may give Tigs an edge on the field of play but Jack far surpasses him from a world of golf standpoint.

Maybe no one in all of sport has ever transferred such greatness on the field to such success and recognition off it. So when I see GOAT references I'm inclined to give it to Jack. Add a "P" after the G and Tiger is right there.

Dumb argument? Too early to call? Perhaps but that's how I see it.

First of all, Tiger's legacy has already dwarfed Jack by dominating a sport as a black man that is primarily white. Argument already over.

Tiger also changed golf in terms of athleticism, literally changed the way the game is played. Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland; those guys aren't playing golf without Tiger coming first.

The course designing thing means literally nothing. Hogan didn't design any courses of note, Vardon didn't design any courses of note. It's arbitrary. Plus, Jack is in his 70's; he's had much more time to design courses.

And to say that Jack surpasses him worldwide is ludicrous. Everyone knows Tigers name, even if they don't follow golf.

Jack has a large footprint on the game, but it's nowhere near the size of Tigers.

[Conrad]

I believe Tiger may already be the greatest player of all time; it's close, whether or not he gets 18.

I think, however, that he nowhere approaches Jack in terms of overall legacy. Sure, there's 30 years to go but I don't see Tiger 3 decades from now with the same influence Jack has today. From his design work to charities to The Memorial, Jack has put a huge footprint on the game.

Could there be a time when people get excited about playing a TW-designed course as they (I) do with Jack's many treasures? Perhaps but I don't see it.

Could one day the World Challenge have the same prestige as The Memorial? I suppose so but doubt it.

So, I may give Tigs an edge on the field of play but Jack far surpasses him from a world of golf standpoint.

Maybe no one in all of sport has ever transferred such greatness on the field to such success and recognition off it. So when I see GOAT references I'm inclined to give it to Jack. Add a "P" after the G and Tiger is right there.

Dumb argument? Too early to call? Perhaps but that's how I see it.

Seems to me like you laid out an argument that says Jack is the greater humanitarian than Tiger, which I don't think anyone would argue with you.

You can't put things like charities, hospitals, course design and giving back to communities and human welfare as reasons for being the greatest of all time.

There is no doubt in anyone's minds that Jack was the great humanitarian who ever played the game but that can't fall into the realm of who was the better golfer or left a bigger influence on the game and how its changed.

Undoubtedly no one has had a bigger impact on the game from how its played, to how golfers train and to how golf is covered than Tiger Woods. I think even Jack Nicklaus himself would agree with that.

[9iron]

I remember back in the good old days when Tiger fans told everyone that it was but a matter of time until Tiger broke Jack's record of 18 majors. Seems now the argument often begins with "Whether Tiger ever breaks Jack's record or not ....."

[jbishop15]

http://tracking.si.com/2014/04/01/tiger-woods-out-of-masters/

holy shit

[jbishop15]

[COLOR=32363F]Tiger is out of the masters, will undergo surgery for a pinched nerve, first Masters he'll miss since 1994. [/COLOR] [URL=https://twitter.com/GolfChannel/status/451028993396199424/photo/1]https://twitter.com/GolfChannel/status/451028993396199424/photo/1[/URL] EDIT: @jbishop15 beat me to it ;-)

I like to thank my American lit prof for this victory; his boringness allowedme to be on my laptop to break this news.

[Valleygolfer]

I can safely say I have heard enough about the injury on the golf channel. Geez it's like CNN when the planes hit the WTCs. Non stop yakety yak and speculation. I think it is time to move on and let him heal and wait to see what happens.

[JetFan1983]

Just wanted to throw my two cents into the ring here:

As much as I fear Tiger is done, I still believe deep down that one major victory somewhere, anywhere is enough to kick start the hype of another run at Jack's record. If he can somehow just get one, it could change the whole picture. Who knows what kind of momentum he could take from it. Because if he can get one, then he can get two, etc.

Sadly however, this "getting just one" theory of mine is not looking so hot at this current moment.

[Crim]

Since this is now the Tiger catch all thread, I just found this and thought it was pretty cool.

[JetFan1983]

Haha @Crim it's funny you brought up that video. The last two weeks I've been studying it a bit with the help of analyzr. Definitely a cool look.

With this view, it's interesting to see his knees square up in the early downswing, which then leads to the extension pieces starting to kick in, and the right foot banking. Plus it's cool to see just how long he keeps the hitting area in his central vision.

[jamo]

Since this is now the Tiger catch all thread, I just found this and thought it was pretty cool.

They could do that really easily now with a GoPro. Surprised we haven't seen something like that from a player yet.

[mp33 man]

First of all, Tiger's legacy has already dwarfed Jack by dominating a sport as a black man that is primarily white. Argument already over.  Tiger also changed golf in terms of athleticism, literally changed the way the game is played. Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland; those guys aren't playing golf without Tiger coming first.  The course designing thing means literally nothing. Hogan didn't design any courses of note, Vardon didn't design any courses of note. It's arbitrary. Plus, Jack is in his 70's; he's had much more time to design courses. And to say that Jack surpasses him worldwide is ludicrous. Everyone knows Tigers name, even if they don't follow golf.  Jack has a large footprint on the game, but it's nowhere near the size of Tigers.

I hadn't commented on the OT Tiger love fest that was going on earlier until I saw the "master catch all thread" part, now that I've seen that I'll respond. First of all: Tiger himself has mentioned that him being African/American is not a big deal because he is just as much Thai as he is African. Secondly: I would argue that there were other great athletic players before Tiger. Third: Course design has a lot to do when talking about "legacy", maybe not playing legacy but definitely on overall golf legacy. I don't think that you can argue against Jack's course design contributing to his legacy and to keeping his name in the minds of players and fans alike. Fourth: @Gunther didn't mention anything about Jack surpassing Tiger worldwide, he simply added that there is more to a legacy than on the field (course) play.

[Gunther]

I hadn't commented on the OT Tiger love fest that was going on earlier until I saw the "master catch all thread" part, now that I've seen that I'll respond. First of all: Tiger himself has mentioned that him being African/American is not a big deal because he is just as much Thai as he is African. Secondly: I would argue that there were other great athletic players before Tiger. Third: Course design has a lot to do when talking about "legacy", maybe not playing legacy but definitely on overall golf legacy. I don't think that you can argue against Jack's course design contributing to his legacy and to keeping his name in the minds of players and fans alike. Fourth: @Gunther didn't mention anything about Jack surpassing Tiger worldwide, he simply added that there is more to a legacy than on the field (course) play.

Concur. Relative to race, I'd say Tiger's Thai half has been more significant. I believe the explosion in Asian golf can be in large part attributed to Tiger. He has always been committed to honoring his mom by traveling to Asia once or twice a year. This may be the most important non-playing impact he's made on the game, if that makes any sense. I actually did not think about this until jbish mentioned race. There's been no such increase in black golf participation. Relative to off the field contributions, Jack's have been so great that he would receive Hall of Fame consideration without his playing records, I believe. So, I stand by my assertion, notwithstanding the passionate arguments made here.

[9iron]

Haha @Crim it's funny you brought up that video. The last two weeks I've been studying it a bit with the help of analyzr. Definitely a cool look.

With this view, it's interesting to see his knees square up in the early downswing, which then leads to the extension pieces starting to kick in, and the right foot banking. Plus it's cool to see just how long he keeps the hitting area in his central vision.

I think this is one area where most mid to high handicappers can improve. Too many golfers pick their heads up very early, many times before they have even hit the ball!

[Spitfisher]

According to Jeff Rude of GolfWeek, Tiger Woods has a bulging disc in his back that won't require surgery. You can read the full report [URL=http://golfweek.com/news/2014/mar/20/tiger-woods-bulging-disc-back-source-pga-tour/][U][COLOR=0066CC]here[/COLOR][/U][/URL]. Rude lays out the ramifactions: "Tiger Woods has been diagnosed with a bulging back disc and won't need surgery, someone with knowledge of his condition said Thursday.  It could have been much worse, the person said, because Woods doesn't have the kind of herniated disc that likely would require an operation." Yes, surgery is never good, but neither is a lingering back injury for a 38-year-old golfer trying to grind his way to five more majors.

Pinch nerve, not bulging disk[quote name="Valleygolfer" url="/t/72993/tiger-woods-master-catch-all-thread-was-injury-thread/270#post_970045"] He said it was his lower back and a disc bulge? Do you think it really matters any more than that? [/quote] newtown and Valley, Will you be retracting your comments now? He has been diagnosed with a pinched nerve[quote name="Gunther" url="/t/72993/tiger-woods-master-catch-all-thread-was-injury-thread/288#post_971261"] Concur. Relative to race, I'd say Tiger's Thai half has been more significant. I believe the explosion in Asian golf can be in large part attributed to Tiger. He has always been committed to honoring his mom by traveling to Asia once or twice a year. This may be the most important non-playing impact he's made on the game, if that makes any sense. I actually did not think about this until jbish mentioned race. There's been no such increase in black golf participation. Relative to off the field contributions, Jack's have been so great that he would receive Hall of Fame consideration without his playing records, I believe. So, I stand by my assertion, notwithstanding the passionate arguments made here.[/quote] The explosion of golf in the PAC rim, not just certain country's is a direct reflection of a robust economy AND consumerism by those citizens. You could say they are now far more open to western ideas and in this case recreation in the past decade than they have ever been in their history. They are consumers now. Tiger increased viewership and made the networks rich but did not enhance participation of golf in this country in gender, age, ethnicity or income level. In 1997 the golf population was 27million, it has decreased each and every year ( never going up), we are now at 20.9 million- the drop last year was the most significant. This was especially concerning because " golf weather days " was 20% greater than previous years. Please read: I am not blaming Woods for the decline, woods just has not influenced participation nor has a very good influence in equipment sales either. golf shirts yes, but not clubs. Source NSGA.

[Kieran123]

http://deadspin.com/at-least-the-tiger-woods-bullshit-machine-is-as-healthy-1557007267

Interesting article. . .

[14ledo81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

According to Jeff Rude of GolfWeek, Tiger Woods has a bulging disc in his back that won't require surgery.

You can read the full report here. Rude lays out the ramifactions:

"Tiger Woods has been diagnosed with a bulging back disc and won't need surgery, someone with knowledge of his condition said Thursday.  It could have been much worse, the person said, because Woods doesn't have the kind of herniated disc that likely would require an operation."

Yes, surgery is never good, but neither is a lingering back injury for a 38-year-old golfer trying to grind his way to five more majors.

Pinch nerve, not bulging disk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

He said it was his lower back and a disc bulge? Do you think it really matters any more than that?

newtown and Valley, Will you be retracting your comments now? He has been diagnosed with a pinched nerve

Didn't the bulging disc cause the pinched nerve?

[9iron]

Spitfisher, the bulging disc is what caused the pinched nerve. It is the disc itself that is/was pinching the nerve.

[Golfingdad]

Pinch nerve, not bulging disk

newtown and Valley, Will you be retracting your comments now? He has been diagnosed with a pinched nerve

Ignorance is bliss.  I just wanted to say that I'm envious of you, because based on these comments, you obviously don't know much about back injuries, and if you don't know much about them, it's probably because you don't have any.  Consider yourself lucky.