Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

[David in FL]

His WD from the Bridgestone was his 7th career withdraw.

I really didn't think it had been that many..... barely an average of one every 3 years.

[Gunther]

His WD from the Bridgestone was his 7th career withdraw.

Wth? I really thought that's what I heard them discussing at the tournament last week. Did a cursory google check before I posted but couldn't find anything beyond the Firestone wd. My apologies for posting bogus info.

[jbishop15]

I really didn't think it had been that many..... barely an average of one every 3 years.

I didn't either. Most of them are in the last few years, I think.

Wth? I really thought that's what I heard them discussing at the tournament last week. Did a cursory google check before I posted but couldn't find anything beyond the Firestone wd. My apologies for posting bogus info.

No problem dude. It happens.

[k-troop]

He had no history of "quitting" in a round. None. Zip. Zero.

Your arguments would come off as objective if you didn't try to support them with statements of fact that are patently false.  Last week's Bridgestone marked the fifth time Tiger has withdrawn mid-round in a tournament.

verb (used without object), quit or quit·ted, quit·ting.

8.

to cease from doing something; stop.

9.

to give up or resign one's job or position: He keeps threatening to quit.

10.

to depart or leave.

11.

to stop trying, struggling, or the like; accept or acknowledge defeat.

How is it suspicious? He played just as badly at the British and didn't withdraw. He's one of the most competitive athletes of our time. He's constantly talked about needing reps to get better. He's obsessed with being the best player ever. Where in that knowledge of his character is even a seed of doubt of his quitting because he's playing poorly?

I agree with you that Tiger is very competitive, and also that Tiger has finished rounds where he has played like crap before.  However, by your own statement the best reason to believe Tiger was actually injured was that we have no information about his character to believe otherwise.  IMO, Tiger's "character" is not squeaky.  My opinion of Tiger's character is that Tiger does what benefits Tiger.

Yeah but it was a whole new level of crap that day.

I'll reiterate what I said before.  I think there's enough there to be suspicious, but I don't think there's enough to indict Tiger this time around.  Anyone watching the tournament can see that the shot on #2 showed no visible sign of causing Tiger any injury or pain.  Tiger didn't appear to show any pain until several holes later.  Walking off the ninth tee, Tiger's caddy appeared oblivious--Lacava marched off the tee box as if unaware that his man was hurting.  Minutes later, Tiger apparently couldn't stand or walk.  And here he is in the PGA Championship 3 days later as if nothing happened.

HOWEVER...  The shots Tiger hit on the front nine on Sunday at Firestone were atrocious.  They were terrible.  He left multiple shots horribly short.  It didn't look like Tiger getting stuck underneath, or flipping, or his usual two-way misses.  It looked like he couldn't make a hip turn.  That, combined with the prior back injury, had me convinced on Sunday that he was seriously injured and that his season was probably over.  Now, with him coming back 3 days later as if nothing happened, it looks suspicious.

----------

Anyone who can claim to know with certainty what really happened, or what Tiger was thinking, is kidding themselves.  And since you don't know, it's a little hypocritical to say that someone else's argument is "illogical", "misinformed," or "stupid."  Unless, of course, they're citing facts that are simply untrue.

edit to respond to later reply:

I really didn't think it had been that many..... barely an average of one every 3 years.

Not really accurate David:  he has five since the 2010 Players.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

The Golf Channel just had a doctor on who discussed it.  Notay Begay also reported it as the injury and he is a good friend of Tiger's.

Don't believe everything you hear.

But you might sometime try to believe something .  You have consistently refused to believe anything related to Tiger's health issues.  We get that you don't like him - that's obvious.  But to keep ranting about it ad nauseum is just boring.  You make yourself out as some sort of expert about back problems, and maybe you are more knowledgeable that the average guy, but that's mostly irrelevant.  Even the very best orthopedists can't intelligently diagnose or comment on a condition that they haven't had the opportunity to examine.

I saw a man in extreme pain.  I understand his pain because I live with it too.  I don't even question that he was hurting badly.  I also don't question his desire to try and play in spite of it.  He may not be using good judgement, but I don't doubt the injury.  He is an extremely competitive individual, and he can see his career's primary goal of passing Jack's 18 majors slipping away, and that has to eat at him every waking moment.  I've gone out and played in tournaments without nearly that much incentive when I couldn't bend over to get the ball out of the hole, and I'm not 1/4 as competitive as Tiger is.  I can have a flare up, and one day on muscle relaxers and I'm back to 100% (or as close to that as I ever get).

I don't really care if Tiger ever wins another major, or if he plays in the Ryder Cup, but I can't wish that sort of back pain on anybody.  Tiger is already richer than God, so I can't really feel sorry for him career wise, and he isn't the most personable player on Tour, but all of that is separate from health concerns.

You really need to get off your soapbox and try not to let your negative personal bias flavor your statements when you don't really know any more about it that anyone else does..

[Golfingdad]

I'll reiterate what I said before.  I think there's enough there to be suspicious, but I don't think there's enough to indict Tiger this time around.  Anyone watching the tournament can see that the shot on #2 showed no visible sign of causing Tiger any injury or pain.  Tiger didn't appear to show any pain until several holes later.

Kevin, I think you're putting way too much stock in this.  Just from personal experience, I can give you several examples of where I can easily trace back to the root of an injury, but it wasn't noticeable until much later.

As a sophomore in high school, during zero period PE, I fell and landed on my elbow.  I stood up, shook it off and kept playing.  It didn't hurt.  After class it was a little sore.  And it kept getting worse and worse by the end of the day.  That night, I couldn't even move my arm and had to go to the ER.

A few years ago I separated my shoulder playing hockey and didn't start feeling pain until after the game was over.

And I bet a lot of people here can think of similar experiences.  The fact that he didn't show visible pain during the course of the shot that he claims the injury started means nothing.

[k-troop]

Kevin, I think you're putting way too much stock in this.

Drew, I said pretty clearly that I'm not convinced he faked it.

I tend to look at these things like a lawyer.  Let's just say I was a judge, and (for whatever reason) the veracity of Tiger's injury-withdrawal were an issue, I think the facts raise enough information to subpoena Tiger's medical records.  I can see the facts that would lead a reasonable person to be suspicious.

If I were the fact-finder, and asked which story were more likely true, I don't think there's enough information to conclude with certainty that Tiger faked injury on Sunday because he was done playing.

As a sophomore in high school, during zero period PE, I fell and landed on my elbow.  I stood up, shook it off and kept playing.  It didn't hurt.  After class it was a little sore.  And it kept getting worse and worse by the end of the day.  That night, I couldn't even move my arm and had to go to the ER.

A few years ago I separated my shoulder playing hockey and didn't start feeling pain until after the game was over.

Okay in both of those cases you were legitimately injured.  In either of those cases were you playing golf, hockey, or climbing the rope in gym class 3 days later?  It's not just the fact that the the shot caused no apparent concern at the time.  It's not just the fact that the visibility/severity of Tiger's injury and his decision to leave the tournament both seemed to come on quite suddenly.  It's not just the fact that Lacava seemed unaware that Tiger was injured.  It's not just the fact that he came back 3 days later as if nothing happened.  It's all of those facts together that I think can lead a reasonable person to be suspicious.

[mvmac]

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/8/6/roundup-tigers-whirlwind-practice-round.html

Rex Hoggard shoots down the view of some (myself included) that Sunday's WD at Firestone deserved some skepticism.

Woods also explained that he was pain free heading into the first round, and that he’d only practiced slow-motion swings in his video bay back home in Florida before making the decision Tuesday afternoon to play this week.

Simply put, he’s playing because he can. Not because he’s 70th on the U.S. Ryder Cup points list with just four days remaining to make his move. Not because he’s 217th on the FedEx Cup points list with just two weeks to secure his spot in the playoffs.

“My range of motion was good,” he explained. “My firing sequence was back to normal. It’s all good.”

Some grassy knoll types have suggested that Woods was perhaps not as injured as he suggested on Sunday. But if that’s the case, he should add an Oscar to those 14 majors because what he exhibited on Sunday at the Bridgestone was legitimate pain.

[Valleygolfer]

But you might sometime try to believe something .  You have consistently refused to believe anything related to Tiger's health issues.  We get that you don't like him - that's obvious.  But to keep ranting about it ad nauseum is just boring.  You make yourself out as some sort of expert about back problems, and maybe you are more knowledgeable that the average guy, but that's mostly irrelevant.  Even the very best orthopedists can't intelligently diagnose or comment on a condition that they haven't had the opportunity to examine.   I saw a man in extreme pain.  I understand his pain because I live with it too.  I don't even question that he was hurting badly.  I also don't question his desire to try and play in spite of it.  He may not be using good judgement, but I don't doubt the injury.  He is an extremely competitive individual, and he can see his career's primary goal of passing Jack's 18 majors slipping away, and that has to eat at him every waking moment.  I've gone out and played in tournaments without nearly that much incentive when I couldn't bend over to get the ball out of the hole, and I'm not 1/4 as competitive as Tiger is.  I can have a flare up, and one day on muscle relaxers and I'm back to 100% (or as close to that as I ever get).   I don't really care if Tiger ever wins another major, or if he plays in the Ryder Cup, but I can't wish that sort of back pain on anybody.  Tiger is already richer than God, so I can't really feel sorry for him career wise, and he isn't the most personable player on Tour, but all of that is separate from health concerns.    You really need to get off your soapbox and try not to let your negative personal bias flavor your statements when you don't really know any more about it that anyone else does..

You could not be more off based here. I have been a Tiger fan forever however the facts are sketchy. Get over yourself and your pain. Everyone behaves differently and had you read the whole thread you would understand my statements. How many times have you been in excruciating pain and it cleared up in three days Rick?

[nevets88]

The Onion - Tiger Woods Developing Swing That Doesn’t Send Pain Shooting Through Every Inch Of Body

Article

Quote:

“I’ve been making some adjustments in my posture and rhythm—a lot of minor things, really—so I can have a consistent drive without feeling excruciating, white-hot pain in my back, arms, legs, and neck,” said Woods, adding that he has been working with coach Sean Foley to develop a follow-through that doesn’t cause his eyes to water from an agonizing throbbing sensation that radiates across his entire body. “

[Abu3baid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Article

“I’ve been making some adjustments in my posture and rhythm—a lot of minor things, really—so I can have a consistent drive without feeling excruciating, white-hot pain in my back, arms, legs, and neck,” said Woods, adding that he has been working with coach Sean Foley to develop a follow-through that doesn’t cause his eyes to water from an agonizing throbbing sensation that radiates across his entire body. “

I have a feeling that this story is just not true..

Quote:

Woods later confirmed that he is also looking to make a slight adjustment to his grip that will allow him to hold his driver without immediately doubling over and vomiting.

I remember once my mom told me how Kate Middleton was getting a divorce.. it was like a month after she got married, so I naturally just looked it up to see if there was any news about it, and come to find out it the only report done on it was... theonion.. I'm not sure how many of their reports are actually real..

Unless you are only posting this for fun, then that is a different case!  Just didn't want the TST crowd to get all riled up.

[Golfingdad]

How many times have you been in excruciating pain and it cleared up in three days Rick?

I've had herniated discs in my back for several years now.  (Mostly pain free for a few years now - knock on wood)  But when I was really having problems, I could go from excrutiating pain to no pain in a matter of SECONDS, not days.  And vice versa too, obviously.  I could be sitting at my desk typing and then turn my head 10 degrees to look at the phone and BAM!!

Of course, when my back was that bad I didn't play golf at all ... but I wasn't a professional golfer by trade either, so ...

[jamo]

Maybe should've noted that this was on The Onion, a satirical website. ;-)

[jbishop15]

You could not be more off based here. I have been a Tiger fan forever however the facts are sketchy. Get over yourself and your pain. Everyone behaves differently and had you read the whole thread you would understand my statements.

How many times have you been in excruciating pain and it cleared up in three days Rick?

The first time I ever got back pain was playing football. It was so bad that I had to be nearly carried off the field, and couldn't play the rest of the game. Literally, my legs would not function. Same thing all night.

I woke up the next morning, pain-free. So, trust me, it can happen.

[nevets88]

Yeah. I should have posted the Telegraph injury graphic and this article next to each other.

Like this:

[iacas]

How many times have you been in excruciating pain and it cleared up in three days Rick?

I've had times I couldn't turn my head fifteen degrees and a day later I'm fine. You're placing WAY too much importance on your own experienced. You aren't Tiger Woods.

[RJH999]

You aren't Tiger Woods.

Can this be confirmed?

[nevets88]

Anyone know what was said?