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Conrad
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Augusta National rewards players who are strong putters.  History shows a lot of great players who failed to win the Green Jacket because they didn't putt well (Nick Price, Greg Norman).

I think the stats would prove that the winners historically make up twice as many shots not putting as they do putting.

A few examples don't mean crap, but here's one that illustrates what I'm saying: Phil missed a six-footer for eagle on 13 after hitting out of the pine straw between two trees. He birdied the hole because of his ballstriking. Tiger in 1997 won with his ballstriking. Wedges to par fives, lots of looks at eagle and easy birdie putts, etc.

You're taking too focused a view. The winner at Augusta National not only hits a lot of greens, he hits a lot of greens to good spots, leaving him shorter, easier putts. So yes, he makes more putts… but if you put lots of players in those positions, they'll make more putts.

Scott, Bubba, Charl, Phil not the best putters (T102, 157, 102, 133 for the years they won in Strokes Gained Putting). Seriously, not a single one cracked the top 100.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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72 holes of golf at Augusta  - you can't hide bad putting stats -

Sure, but general great play on the course is what provided those opportunities on the green - correct? I personally don't think you can win unless you're performing well in all aspects of your game. Missing a "winning putt" can't be classified as bad putting. That's just one unfortunate misread, or one bad putt.

Stronger putters will make up for missed greens or shots to the wrong part of the greens. If you have a suspect short game or putting game, Augusta will magnify it and make it readily apparent.   I wouldn't put Hunter Mahan on the list of golfers who I'd pick just because of his issues on that department.

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72 holes of golf at Augusta  - you can't hide bad putting stats -

Stronger putters will make up for missed greens or shots to the wrong part of the greens. If you have a suspect short game or putting game, Augusta will magnify it and make it readily apparent.   I wouldn't put Hunter Mahan on the list of golfers who I'd pick just because of his issues on that department.

We can agree to disagree on this, I guess. Being on top of your approach shots and wedges into the greens is much more important in my opinion (not to take away from common sense, which is that putting is still obviously important). Priority in my opinion is the approach and what is going on away from the green. Putting the ball in the proper area considering breaks, grain, etc. is what will end up winning this weekend - just like it has in nearly every year prior.

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72 holes of golf at Augusta  - you can't hide bad putting stats -

The data says otherwise. You're clinging to old myths.

Stronger putters will make up for missed greens or shots to the wrong part of the greens.

The simple fact is that they're forced to do so, and the gap between good putters and bad putters on the PGA Tour isn't very big. Missing greens is not how you win a major championship.

If you have a suspect short game or putting game, Augusta will magnify it and make it readily apparent. I wouldn't put Hunter Mahan on the list of golfers who I'd pick just because of his issues on that department.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02564.html

He's 9th this year in Strokes Gained putting, and was top 30 last year. So…

We can agree to disagree on this, I guess. Being on top of your approach shots and wedges into the greens is much more important in my opinion (not to take away from common sense, which is that putting is still obviously important). Priority in my opinion is the approach and what is going on away from the green. Putting the ball in the proper area considering breaks, grain, etc. is what will end up winning this weekend - just like it has in nearly every year prior.

QFT.

But Rick's mind is likely made up, just as it is on the topic of who "real golf fans" are. :-P

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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    • Taking your dispersion and distance in consideration I analyzed the 4 posible ways to play the hole, or at least the ones that were listed here. I took the brown grass on the left as fescue were you need to punch out sideways to the fairway and rigth of the car path to be fescue too.  Driver "going for the green"  You have to aim more rigth, to the bunker in order to center your shotzone in between the fescue.  Wood of 240 over the bunkers I already like this one more for you. More room to land between the fescue. Balls in the fescue 11% down from 30% with driver. Improve of score from 4.55 to 4.40. 4 iron 210 yards besides the bunkers.    Also a wide area and your shot zone is better than previous ones. This makes almost the fescue dissapear. You really need to hit a bad one (sometimes shit happens). Because of that and only having 120 yards in this is the best choice so far. Down to 4.32 from 4.40. Finally the 6 Iron 180 yards to avoid all trouble.    Wide area an narrow dispersion for almost been in the fairway all the time. Similar than the previous one but 25 yards farther for the hole to avoid been in the bunkers. Average remains the same, 4.33 to 4.32.  Conclusion is easy. Either your 4iron or 6 iron of the tee are equaly good for you. Glad that you made par!
    • Wish I could have spent 5 minutes in the middle of the morning round to hit some balls at the range. Just did much more of right side through with keeping the shoulders feeling level (not dipping), and I was flushing them. Lol. Maybe too much focus on hands stuff while playing.
    • Last year I made an excel that can easily measure with my own SG data the average score for each club of the tee. Even the difference in score if you aim more left or right with the same club. I like it because it can be tweaked to account for different kind of rough, trees, hazards, greens etc.     As an example, On Par 5's that you have fescue on both sides were you can count them as a water hazard (penalty or punch out sideways), unless 3 wood or hybrid lands in a wider area between the fescue you should always hit driver. With a shorter club you are going to hit a couple less balls in the fescue than driver but you are not going to offset the fact that 100% of the shots are going to be played 30 or more yards longer. Here is a 560 par 5. Driver distance 280 yards total, 3 wood 250, hybrid 220. Distance between fescue is 30 yards (pretty tight). Dispersion for Driver is 62 yards. 56 for 3 wood and 49 for hybrid. Aiming of course at the middle of the fairway (20 yards wide) with driver you are going to hit 34% of balls on the fescue (17% left/17% right). 48% to the fairway and the rest to the rough.  The average score is going to be around 5.14. Looking at the result with 3 wood and hybrid you are going to hit less balls in the fescue but because of having longer 2nd shots you are going to score slightly worst. 5.17 and 5.25 respectively.    Things changes when the fescue is taller and you are probably going to loose the ball so changing the penalty of hitting there playing a 3 wood or hybrid gives a better score in the hole.  Off course 30 yards between penalty hazards is way to small. You normally have 60 or more, in that cases the score is going to be more close to 5 and been the Driver the weapon of choice.  The point is to see that no matter how tight the hole is, depending on the hole sometimes Driver is the play and sometimes 6 irons is the play. Is easy to see that on easy holes, but holes like this:  you need to crunch the numbers to find the best strategy.     
    • Very much so. I think the intimidation factor that a lot of people feel playing against someone who's actually very good is significant. I know that Winged Foot pride themselves on the strength of the club. I think they have something like 40-50 players who are plus something. Club championships there are pretty competitive. Can't imagine Oakmont isn't similar. The more I think about this, the more likely it seems that this club is legit. Winning also breeds confidence and I'm sure the other clubs when they play this one are expecting to lose - that can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    • Ah ok I misunderstood. But you did bring to light an oversight on my part.
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