TaylorMade Proposes 15 Inch holes!

[saevel25]

15" cups is a dumb idea. Beginning golfers can putt fine enough on a regulation hole. It is the long game that drives them away from the game. Even half decent hacks who have been playing for years will somehow manage to hit the ground for inches behind the ball an watch the divot go twice as far as the ball. And there really is no way to take that element out of golf without it really being golf anymore.

Taylormade is trying to solve the problem with some bs moves that will only serve for them to sell more products. The should really admit that it was their products that ruined the game in the first place by juicing up the clubs and balls so any schmuck could arm the ball out there 250+. Courses then had to be built longer and more costly to maintain etc. And then when your beginner golfer walks up with his 47" 460 and slices the bejesus out the ball you need to wait for him to walk three fairways over and hit three punch out shots.

To truly improve and grow the game while maintaining much of the difficulty I have devised my own new set of rules.

1. Club length limit at 43 inches

2. Golf ball that goes half as far and courses that are half the size.

3. No golf carts without medical clearance

4. All players are provided divot mix to clip to their bags/pull carts

5. Ready golf

6. much thinner metal flagsticks which are not removable

7. women get one free throw per hole

1) 43" wont fix a bad swing

2) This will drive people away from golf. People don't want to hit it shorter

3) Yes, lets just slow down play and drive more people away from golf as well. We want people to keep playing. Some courses are not made for walking.

4) Not a smart idea. It could cause a mess, and it would weight down the golf bag.

5) YES, but this takes individual effort.

6) Nope, removing the flag does not take much time

7) I know some woman who can hit it farther than some men I play in golf league with. Do the men get to throw the ball as well?

I think 15" cup is fine under some circumstances. Not sure the damage it will cause the course, maybe make the cup something like 9", double the size. I would like to see more golfers added to the game. Its a great game, I am all for setting up some different rules to ease people into the game, especially juniors. It makes sense. Little league starts off with Tee-ball, then machine pitch, then they finally allow players to pitch. It works. Why not set up golf to allow kids to enjoy the game under their own terms. I would like to see more tee boxes set up in the fairway to shorten the hole for kids. This way they can shoot lower scores and still play with their parents.

No problem with the larger golf hole idea.

[SavvySwede]

1) 43" wont fix a bad swing

2) This will drive people away from golf. People don't want to hit it shorter

3) Yes, lets just slow down play and drive more people away from golf as well. We want people to keep playing. Some courses are not made for walking.

4) Not a smart idea. It could cause a mess, and it would weight down the golf bag.

5) YES, but this takes individual effort.

6) Nope, removing the flag does not take much time

7) I know some woman who can hit it farther than some men I play in golf league with. Do the men get to throw the ball as well?

I think 15" cup is fine under some circumstances. Not sure the damage it will cause the course, maybe make the cup something like 9", double the size. I would like to see more golfers added to the game. Its a great game, I am all for setting up some different rules to ease people into the game, especially juniors. It makes sense. Little league starts off with Tee-ball, then machine pitch, then they finally allow players to pitch. It works. Why not set up golf to allow kids to enjoy the game under their own terms. I would like to see more tee boxes set up in the fairway to shorten the hole for kids. This way they can shoot lower scores and still play with their parents.

No problem with the larger golf hole idea.

1. a 43" driver would make a big difference. I am a very good driver of the golf ball and when I've demoed some of the extra long shafts on the newer models it made me wonder how a 20 handicapper could ever put one in play with it.

2. The distance is all relative and would take an adjustment period. When they played with featheries and gutta percha a 200 yard drive was just as impressive a a 300 yarder today. You don't see people yawning when a baseball goes 150 yards.

3. Two person carts slow down the game. And if the courses were the size I suggested they would be completely unnecessary.

4. Those plastic bottles aren't that heavy and most people use a push cart anyway.

5. Ok

6. It'll save you ten minutes and that is good enough for me. I hardly ever see people take the flag out while playing alone.

7. That was a joke. I'm glad you have the privilege of being around some quality lady golfers.

[WUTiger]

There's other things that courses can do to make golf friendlier besides have basketball-size cups.

I play at Stonewolf GC near St. Louis, and the course has had a number of landscaping upgrades the past year. The course is turning a couple of "wilderness" patches into mown fairway, and cut down some trees that were crowding the reasonable flight path of tee shots. Also, the crew cleared out the scrubland that had grown up around the bank of a lake water hazard. Now the ball is either in the water or in the short rough. No more hunting for balls that land on the fairway and kick into the shadows.

[MS256]

Just curious. Have any of you "Alternate days" voters given any thought to how you would accomplish that? I've thought about it some and so far just can't see any realistic way of doing it. I suppose my best idea would be to make a permanent 15 inch hole and cover it with some sort of cover with Astro-Turf on top on the days it wasn't in use. I have no problem with "beginner rules" or "beginner courses" or special days for beginners. I fact if I owned the course there are lots of things I would do to attract kids, even if it cost me some money. Some of my ideas about special rules and handicaps would give the "persimmon" group a stroke so I'm not exactly a hardliner...I just can't figure out how 15 inch holes would work on a regular course without running off enough regular play (on those days) to put me out of business.

[Golfingdad]

Just curious. Have any of you "Alternate days" voters given any thought to how you would accomplish that?

I voted "alternate days" by mistake. @Bechambo had some great and clever names for each choice, but they threw me for a loop.  "April Fool's Day" didn't seem like the right choice so I picked the one above it before I really read it.

I think the idea is fun and is worth trying, but I think, realistically, it would be for "events."  In fact, I think I even explained it in my post ...

The ability of the course to handle that notwithstanding ... I think it could be a great idea.  Something like this:

Pick one day a year and promote the heck out of it.  Try to get everybody on board ... USGA, PGA tour, PGA of America, Golf Channel, all of the OEMs, as many courses in the country as possible, and advertise it as Beginner's Day, or Become a Golfer Day, or something a lot more creative than I can come up with ;).

Have the courses offer reduced greens fees for everybody (50% off or something), and to encourage beginners even more, make rental clubs free for the day.  Make greens fees for any kid under 18 with an adult completely free.

If you want to get more people to try golf, this seems like one way that might work.  I think it's worth a try!

So, my bad ... I just didn't read the choices closely enough.

[Lihu]

I voted for the larger holes, but only for immediate gains to my scores.

Maybe it would be good to keep up pace of play so less people take 10 minutes on every green.

Edit: too bad it's only one day a year.

[RandallT]

I find this topic interesting because I have 3 girls, and I have tried and tried to get them to enjoy sports in general, to little avail. Surrounded by girls, I get to see what turns them off the game, so I naturally draw sweeping conclusions about the whole gender. Since the minority of golfers are women, it seems they represent a larger growth opportunity. Perhaps if golf appeals more to women, men will also be even more likely to want to show up. From my unscientific sample size of my girls, I see that my daughters: 1. enjoy driving in the golf cart and spending the time on the course alone (not with random strangers), 2. have fun putting (on the current size holes), 3. get frustrated with their full swing shots and do NOT want lessons from dad, 4. and do not buy in to the idea that golf is a mini-metaphor for life, filled with lessons about yourself. They see it as simply whacking a ball around somewhat pointlessly. Perhaps that's why I thought it bizarre to focus on the size of the hole in an earlier post. I did not want to seem dismissive, but I certainly did. The larger problem lies elsewhere from my experience. I'm all for growing the game though with innovative ideas and I could be off-base with my experiences. Any little bit can help if the idea is good, and I'm not trying to be a total downer on the idea of bigger holes. My suspicion is that the larger problem is that the full swing is just too hard for many, and the perception of the whole game is seen as somewhat boring. I admire the passion of the people in that video who truly seemed to get a thrill from the larger holes and feel that others will share that excitement. If that rubs off and works to get people interested in golf, that's great. The bizarreness of that video to me was that it didn't ring true with my own experience with my girls. They would probably be like "oh bigger holes? Ok cool.... I guess."

[iacas]

1. a 43" driver would make a big difference. I am a very good driver of the golf ball and when I've demoed some of the extra long shafts on the newer models it made me wonder how a 20 handicapper could ever put one in play with it.

No it wouldn't. A beginner golfer can't hit their pitching wedge. Hell, they top and stub putts with a 32" putter (not to mention heel and toe).

3. Two person carts slow down the game. And if the courses were the size I suggested they would be completely unnecessary.

They don't have to slow the game. Properly managed, carts make golf faster.

And good luck getting everyone to build half-sized golf courses. Your idea is a non-starter.

4. Those plastic bottles aren't that heavy and most people use a push cart anyway.

Push carts are slower than carrying and proper use of golf carts.

6. It'll save you ten minutes and that is good enough for me. I hardly ever see people take the flag out while playing alone.

It won't save you ten minutes. It may not save you ten seconds. The person who putts last gets the flag and marks his ball. He does this while others are reading their putts, etc. No time wasted.

If someone's ready with the flag when you're leaving the green, again, no time wasted. Zero.

Just curious. Have any of you "Alternate days" voters given any thought to how you would accomplish that?

I've thought about it some and so far just can't see any realistic way of doing it. I suppose my best idea would be to make a permanent 15 inch hole and cover it with some sort of cover with Astro-Turf on top on the days it wasn't in use.

They cut and transport and re-sod turf all the time. I don't think it's as hard as some people are saying. I know a course nearby here that has a 12" octagonal cutter for repairing patches of grass - they cut out the bad turf and replace it with good turf from the mini sod farm, cut with the same tool.

It's basically a bigger hole cutter with a few modifications. It's fine. On "alternate days" they could put the piece of turf nearby in a holder, or just keep them all and store them near the maintenance shed. Water them a little. Replace them at the end of the day.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

1) 43" wont fix a bad swing

2) This will drive people away from golf. People don't want to hit it shorter

3) Yes, lets just slow down play and drive more people away from golf as well. We want people to keep playing. Some courses are not made for walking.

4) Not a smart idea. It could cause a mess, and it would weight down the golf bag.

5) YES, but this takes individual effort.

6) Nope, removing the flag does not take much time

7) I know some woman who can hit it farther than some men I play in golf league with. Do the men get to throw the ball as well?

I think 15" cup is fine under some circumstances. Not sure the damage it will cause the course, maybe make the cup something like 9", double the size. I would like to see more golfers added to the game. Its a great game, I am all for setting up some different rules to ease people into the game, especially juniors. It makes sense. Little league starts off with Tee-ball, then machine pitch, then they finally allow players to pitch. It works. Why not set up golf to allow kids to enjoy the game under their own terms. I would like to see more tee boxes set up in the fairway to shorten the hole for kids. This way they can shoot lower scores and still play with their parents.

No problem with the larger golf hole idea.

1. a 43" driver would make a big difference. I am a very good driver of the golf ball and when I've demoed some of the extra long shafts on the newer models it made me wonder how a 20 handicapper could ever put one in play with it.

2. The distance is all relative and would take an adjustment period. When they played with featheries and gutta percha a 200 yard drive was just as impressive a a 300 yarder today. You don't see people yawning when a baseball goes 150 yards.

3. Two person carts slow down the game. And if the courses were the size I suggested they would be completely unnecessary.

4. Those plastic bottles aren't that heavy and most people use a push cart anyway.

5. Ok

6. It'll save you ten minutes and that is good enough for me. I hardly ever see people take the flag out while playing alone.

7. That was a joke. I'm glad you have the privilege of being around some quality lady golfers.

1) I agree with the general idea, but it would do nothing to grow the game.  It might, however, tend to pick up the pace when errant drives aren't quite so errant.

2) Just dial everything back 20 years.  It doesn't need to be dialed back to the feathery age.

3) You are simply wrong on this.  Two person carts don't slow the game, and with players who know what they are doing, they can speed up the game considerably.  It's two idiots in a cart that cause problems, but then those same two idiots would have the same issues when walking.

4) Anything you add to a cart or hang from a bag increases the load, which increases the amount of work necessary to lift or move the load.  Simple physics.

5) Ready golf takes some training and individual commitment, and it's how most guys I play with have played for 30 years.

6) Handling the flagstick is just part of the training for a good pace of play policy.  I've never felt like I was held up by anyone pulling or replacing the flagstick.  It's when the guy who did it stops on the apron of the green afterward and writes down all 4 scores before moving to the next tee that's frustrating.

7) That is the sort of "joke" that gets men killed.

[MS256]

They cut and transport and re-sod turf all the time. I don't think it's as hard as some people are saying. I know a course nearby here that has a 12" octagonal cutter for repairing patches of grass - they cut out the bad turf and replace it with good turf from the mini sod farm, cut with the same tool.

It's basically a bigger hole cutter with a few modifications. It's fine. On "alternate days" they could put the piece of turf nearby in a holder, or just keep them all and store them near the maintenance shed. Water them a little. Replace them at the end of the day.

If "they" have unlimited money to pay for that kind of man-hours that's great.

Not a chance in the world at any of the courses I play or the course where I work that they could pay for that. Takes about two hours to change the holes now (and I'm pretty fast). What you are talking about is almost a full time job. A lot of these courses are barely scraping by as it is.

If (and that's a big if) it actually worked and increased play enough to pay for the man hours it would work out but I just can't see it increasing play at all, and maybe decreasing it by a good bit.

Now a group of guys says "Lets not go to ____ today because they just punched the greens." I fully believe they would also say "Lets not go to ____ today because they have the 15" holes."

[iacas]

If "they" have unlimited money to pay for that kind of man-hours that's great.

Not a chance in the world at any of the courses I play or the course where I work that they could pay for that. Takes about two hours to change the holes now (and I'm pretty fast). What you are talking about is almost a full time job. A lot of these courses are barely scraping by as it is.

Huh? A full day? It's just cutting out a single circle on each green, just like cutting a regular hole (except you don't have to immediately repair the other hole - you do that at the end of the day).

The cutting and transporting and re-sodding simply spoke to the fact that you're treating this as if it's something never before accomplished in golf - how to cut a piece of sod and return it later (or to another spot). Entire greens have been built by re-sodding, and I mentioned an octagonal tool that does it in seconds in smaller portions (about a foot) to repair small sections of the green.

This is not a complex or never-before-accomplished task or endeavor. If 15" holes becomes standard, they'd have a hole cutter for them and that would be that. A superintendent around here showed me a metal ring he could use in the meantime - just hammer it down, and lift out the turf. It's not as automated as a hole cutter would be, but it works.

[MS256]

Huh? A full day? It's just cutting out a single circle on each green, just like cutting a regular hole (except you don't have to immediately repair the other hole - you do that at the end of the day).

The cutting and transporting and re-sodding simply spoke to the fact that you're treating this as if it's something never before accomplished in golf - how to cut a piece of sod and return it later (or to another spot). Entire greens have been built by re-sodding, and I mentioned an octagonal tool that does it in seconds in smaller portions (about a foot) to repair small sections of the green.

This is not a complex or never-before-accomplished task or endeavor. If 15" holes becomes standard, they'd have a hole cutter for them and that would be that. A superintendent around here showed me a metal ring he could use in the meantime - just hammer it down, and lift out the turf. It's not as automated as a hole cutter would be, but it works.

15 inch holes. Yep. That's all that guy is going to do that day. Do you really think if regular holes take 2 hours that 15" holes can be done in even close to the same amount of time?

[ay33660]

My course actually has 18 of those 15" cups installed on the course !!!!!!!

But they are not used on our regular greens.

They are the cups that we use for our temporary greens in the winter.

As a high handicapper I am not going to enjoy golf more by having a 15" hole.

My problem is not putting but rather getting the ball onto the green.

So will they be proposing a 150 yard long green next?

[iacas]

15 inch holes. Yep. That's all that guy is going to do that day. Do you really think if regular holes take 2 hours that 15" holes can be done in even close to the same amount of time?

Absolutely. Even using the manual "hammer it down and pull the sod out manually" it took only 20% longer. I've seen it done.

I really have no idea why you seem to believe it will take all day. You do the same exact thing that you do now, except the tool takes a 15" cut instead of a 4.25" cut. And it's often easier because you aren't cutting down so deep - a few inches as opposed to six to eight.

[MS256]

Absolutely. Even using the manual "hammer it down and pull the sod out manually" it took only 20% longer. I've seen it done.

I really have no idea why you seem to believe it will take all day. You do the same exact thing that you do now, except the tool takes a 15" cut instead of a 4.25" cut. And it's often easier because you aren't cutting down so deep - a few inches as opposed to six to eight.

Uhmm. Probably because I change the holes and know how long it takes.

[iacas]

Uhmm. Probably because I change the holes and know how long it takes.

Uhmm. As have I.

And I've watched a guy cut larger-than-12" holes in 18 greens, too, for a special event. Took less than two hours. He normally can cut 18 holes in about 80-90 minutes. So even using a tool not built for the job, it took him only about 20% more time. With the proper hole cutting tool, it should take about the same amount of time. He pointed out that it was often easier because you didn't have to cut so deep.

[Lihu]

My course actually has 18 of those 15" cups installed on the course !!!!!!!

But they are not used on our regular greens.

They are the cups that we use for our temporary greens in the winter.

As a high handicapper I am not going to enjoy golf more by having a 15" hole.

My problem is not putting but rather getting the ball onto the green.

So will they be proposing a 150 yard long green next?

I know par golf would be within my reach with 15" holes. Plus, we would not have to wait for so long every hole for other high handicap slow foursomes to line up their putts for 3 minutes per person.

150 yard long green would not be that good for the equipment industry. I mean, how much money could you make selling only 8 irons? And only the 8 iron engineer would keep his job @geauxforbroke .

[iacas]

150 yard long green would not be that good for the equipment industry.

I think he was being facetious, @Lihu . :)