What would you shoot at Augusta on Sunday?

[MS256]

I've played courses just over 7,000 yards where I felt like the length beat me up and others the same length where I didn't seem to notice very much. Never played a course 7,445.

For me it seems like the ones with a lot of extra yardage on par 3s and some 4s with relatively normal par 5s are the ones that "feel very long" while I'm playing them.

If the par 3s are reasonable (under 200 yards) and the par 5s are very long I don't seem to notice as much (except that the par 5s are 3 shot holes).

Based on that I'm not sure what Augusta would feel like. Seems like some of the par 4s would feel like par 5s but the par 5s would feel about normal. The par 3s would actually seem a little short compared to most except for number 4.

The members should let us play it so TST community would know.

[albatross]

It's not like this happened to every player or that it happens on every hole. It's a rare occurrence. You're trying to make a case using isolated incidents rather than looking at the facts.

BTW Bubba and Spieth both made birdies on the same hole in the final round.

I've been told that I can't respond or I would.

[Ernest Jones]

Yeah, only Masters and Members, and the members are only 6365.  A scratch golfer would never consider 6300 to be long, so he must have played the Masters tees. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/96231/] [/URL]

[quote name="MS256" url="/t/73765/what-would-you-shoot-at-augusta-on-sunday/100_100#post_977218"] Did he say what he shot? Just curious. [/quote] Ok. So here's the poop. He played twice from the members' tees. I must have my story mixed up because he said tee to green was no big deal but the greens were murder. He shot 77 and 80. So only about 6-7 shots higher than his usual game and he was a little nervous so after a few more rounds there he could probably get close to par.

[MS256]

Ok. So here's the poop. He played twice from the members' tees. I must have my story mixed up because he said tee to green was no big deal but the greens were murder. He shot 77 and 80. So only about 6-7 shots higher than his usual game and he was a little nervous so after a few more rounds there he could probably get close to par.

Thanks Ernest. That sounds about like I figured it would be.

[Ernest Jones]

Thanks Ernest. That sounds about like I figured it would be.

I'm still fairly certain that he originally told me he needed more club than usual on approaches. I dunno, maybe he's a short knocker, I've never played with him but it seems unlikely as he's a bonifid scratch and ex-teaching pro. Still, 77 is pretty damn good on a difficult course he's never seen before aside from TV.

[Lihu]

I've played courses just over 7,000 yards where I felt like the length beat me up and others the same length where I didn't seem to notice very much. Never played a course 7,445.

For me it seems like the ones with a lot of extra yardage on par 3s and some 4s with relatively normal par 5s are the ones that "feel very long" while I'm playing them.

If the par 3s are reasonable (under 200 yards) and the par 5s are very long I don't seem to notice as much (except that the par 5s are 3 shot holes).

Based on that I'm not sure what Augusta would feel like. Seems like some of the par 4s would feel like par 5s but the par 5s would feel about normal. The par 3s would actually seem a little short compared to most except for number 4.

The members should let us play it so TST community would know.

My son noted the same thing while he was looking at the tips on the courses we have planned this week (Tuckwet Champions is 7377 yards 76.1/139). He commented that he might just need an extra stroke on a few of the par 4 by design, and the par 5 look relatively the same. There is a 607 yard par 5, but I remember getting on pin high in the green side bunker on the 3rd shot when I was not able to swing as well as I do now.

If we did an outing this year at Tuckwet and Erik decided to put us all on the tips again, I think it would be doable to my course handicap as calculated by USGA tools. That is, now that I am actually an 18 and my son is a 10. However, since putting is both of our weaknesses, we might do really bad? We'll keep track even if unofficial.

We'll see Thursday

[iacas]

I've been told that I can't respond or I would.

I'm reversing my decision (for now at least) to restrict conversation about how difficult the putting is from the thread so long as you can avoid a few pitfalls, including calling other people idiots or implying that they are because Colin Montgomerie says something off-handed. See also @jamo 's post about how people tend to exaggerate things at Augusta.

You'd be best served to discuss facts, and not take extremist positions like "but one guy once five-putted!" That position renders your opinion easily dismissed.

[albatross]

I'm reversing my decision (for now at least) to restrict conversation about how difficult the putting is from the thread so long as you can avoid a few pitfalls, including calling other people idiots or implying that they are because Colin Montgomerie says something off-handed. See also @jamo's post about how people tend to exaggerate things at Augusta.

You'd be best served to discuss facts, and not take extremist positions like "but one guy once five-putted!" That position renders your opinion easily dismissed.

Fair enough.  I will point out though that I never called anyone a name or mentioned Colin Montgomerie.  Other people might have, but quoting me in your post makes it sound like I might have. I wasn't basing my whole point on someone 5 putting a green. I just think that it speaks to the difficulty of them, when a guy that was 4th in putting last year, and knows the greens really well, is capable of doing such a thing. I can't imagine Snedeker 5 putting from 6 feet anywhere else on tour. I get your point though, that it's not basis for an entire argument, and I didn't mean it to be.

[Lihu]

. . .

Not targeting you, specifically, but. . .

One more thing for you naysayers: http://thesandtrap.com/t/146/whatd-you-shoot-today/11790#post_977351

I suspect that this person would shoot pretty well into the 80's 90's or lower???

[Golfingdad]

Not targeting you, specifically, but. . .

One more thing for you naysayers: http://thesandtrap.com/t/146/whatd-you-shoot-today/11790#post_977351

I suspect that this person would shoot pretty well into the 80's 90's or lower???

FYI, that guy is a + handicapper who is attempting to qualify for the US Open this year and he already posted in this thread:

I think I'd shoot mid to high 70's like a 77 or something.  Length of a course is not a problem for me and i can hit lots of greens in a round.  It'll come down to putting for sure or how close my approaches are.

And got subsequently mocked ...

LOL...what are you smoking?

But I think the "mocker" was one of those under the impression that the OP meant IN the Masters on Sunday.  I.e. with other pros, crowds, etc, etc.  OP simply meant, and I think most understood, that he was just talking about Sunday conditions.

---

Speaking of those:  How different does anybody think the conditions of Augusta National are from their everyday conditions?

I tend to think that they are not at all very different.  I mean, there are no fairways to be made narrower, there is no rough to grow taller.  They are known for their fast greens ... I would not imagine that they are slow the rest of the year.

[JP golf]

Quote:

But I think the "mocker" was one of those under the impression that the OP meant IN the Masters on Sunday.  I.e. with other pros, crowds, etc, etc.  OP simply meant, and I think most understood, that he was just talking about Sunday conditions.

I 100% read the initial post that indicated not in the actual masters but in those conditions, no tournament pressure....  However, I can't help thinking and visualizing in the masters when I was reading most responses...  I agreed with the mocker when I read mid 70's (on Sunday at the masters- my thinking) ....  I mean the cut was 74-75...  and only 14 of the 51 that made the cut had rounds under par on Sunday and those are some of the best in the world.  Fun to think what could we all shoot if we were in the Masters...  That would be interesting to watch on TV huh?

[jclark]

FYI, that guy is a + handicapper who is attempting to qualify for the US Open this year and he already posted in this thread: And got subsequently mocked ... But I think the "mocker" was one of those under the impression that the OP meant IN the Masters on Sunday.  I.e. with other pros, crowds, etc, etc.  OP simply meant, and I think most understood, that he was just talking about Sunday conditions. [rule]Speaking of those:  How different does anybody think the conditions of Augusta National are from their everyday conditions? I tend to think that they are not at all very different.  I mean, there are no fairways to be made narrower, there is no rough to grow taller.  They are known for their fast greens ... I would not imagine that they are slow the rest of the year.

I guess you could make the greens easier if you brought a bottle of water with you and poured it out on your line when putting. Lol. Other than that I guess the course would probably stay the same year round, tournament or not

[JP golf]

I don't think they would cut and roll the greens that tight year around...  wouldn't they run the risk of burning the greens up?  They would still be amazingly and awesomely fast regardless, but I don't think they would be tournament masters fast...

[jclark]

I don't think they would cut and roll the greens that tight year around...  wouldn't they run the risk of burning the greens up?  They would still be amazingly and awesomely fast regardless, but I don't think they would be tournament masters fast...

I would agree. But, Maybe that's part of the membership? People paying high dollar to be able to play on the same course and set up as the masters?

[Phil McGleno]

PGA Tour greens almost never get to 13.-Theyre not as fast as some of y'all seem to think. 11-12 most of the time, sometimes 13. PGA Tour supers overstate stimp just like your local super does.

[Orlando38]

entertaining thread! bored night watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays game, and this thread helped make it more exciting! Albatross, enjoyed you're posts here! :)

[tefunk]

Mark Broadie's book points out that a guy who shoots 80 can out-putt an average PGA Tour pro 20% of the time.

I'm not familiar with this book in any way, so I'm curious, what is that 20% statistic based on? 20% on any random hole? 20% of the time a player who shoots 80 will have less putts in an entire round than a pro? Does this take into account GIR (I.e. Do both the pro and the amateur have the same GIR%)? To me, statistics don't always mean much without understanding what they're based on. So I'm not trying be a pain, but would like to understand what that 20% truly represents.

[mdl]

I'm not familiar with this book in any way, so I'm curious, what is that 20% statistic based on?

20% on any random hole? 20% of the time a player who shoots 80 will have less putts in an entire round than a pro? Does this take into account GIR (I.e. Do both the pro and the amateur have the same GIR%)?

To me, statistics don't always mean much without understanding what they're based on. So I'm not trying be a pain, but would like to understand what that 20% truly represents.

I've read his original strokes gained paper (the one that showed based on the PGA satellite data that long approaches are what most differentiate players), but not his book.  But it seems to me that the out-putt on 20% of random holes (presumably with the same starting place) would be sort of meaningless, and almost impossible data to collect.  So I assume that means the average amateur shooting 80 will have fewer putts than an average pro round 20% of the time, which would of course mean GIR is not the same, or the amateur would've shot better than 80!  I'm also interested in exactly what data that's based on.  Maybe club tourney data at a club where pro tourneys are held and the club collects putts as well as score in competitive rounds or something?