What would you shoot at Augusta on Sunday?

[Golfingdad]

I wasn't ignoring you.  What these guys shot at a different golf course is 100% irrelevant to the discussion of Augusta National.  And I completely disagree that pros don't putt a lot better than "others."   Are you kidding me?  That's what separates the winners and losers on the tour.  Tee to green stats are closer among players than any other factor on tour.  I think putting is the biggest skill gap between pros and low handicap amateurs.

No it's a pretty good comparison actually.  Think about it.  What does the winner usually shoot in the US Open?  Almost always something close to even par, right?  And at Augusta the winner usually hovers around -10.  Granted the US Open usually "cheats" for that score by making the courses play to par 70, but still, if 3 amateurs can break 90 on a course that pros cannot even break par, then why is it so difficult to think that a few amateurs could shoot better scores at Augusta ... where, by and large, the pros all shoot better scores as well?

And we've discussed the topic of which areas of the game pros most excel over amateurs many times before.  And even if it may seem counterintuitive to some at first, it always comes down to the long game as being the big difference.

If a pro has a good day putting, maybe he has 26, and if he has a bad day putting he has 32?  If I have a good day putting I have 28, and a bad day I have 36.

But if a pro has a good day ballstriking, he hits 12-14 fairways and 18 greens and on a bad day he hits 5 or 6 fairways and 9 or 10 greens.  If I have a good day ballstriking, it's 6 or 7 fairways and 9 greens, and a bad day is 3-4 fairways and 3-4 greens.

It's not even remotely close.

And actually, what usually separates the winning pros from the losing pros is also ballstriking.

[JP golf]

Of course they would NEVER do it, but I think it would be hilarious television to have a foursome of 20 HCP golfers and let them play Augusta in tournament conditions, including a decent crowd.  Imagine how hysterical it would be to see a slow-mo Peter Kostas analysis, pro-tracer, shot link, with a bunch of hacks out there.  I would absolutely watch.

lol...okay, that would be funny...  I would watch that disaster at least for a couple holes, but it would have to be a group of animated golfers because their reactions to the shots would be awesome!  I'd love to see some of the guys I play with out there...

by the way... it looked like a bunch of high school girls in drama club in here for a minute?-  Don't get so offended, opinions are good, attacking people not...  a pm would be better for a lot of the conversation rather than bring an argument into a thread...  yall been here way longer than me, you know better....   golf and discussing golf should be fun -

Great thread though!

[Lihu]

Based upon your calculations, something like 133

Why so belligerent? You asked what we thought we would shoot and act like we all should have said a 130 or something.

If we never hit a green all day until a stroke over regulation and 3 putted every single green that would only be 108 strokes. Sorry but I just don't see where those other 22 strokes are coming from to get to 130.

There should be a direct correlation plus some tweak factor here.

http://www.popeofslope.com/magazine/how_tough_augusta.html

The course rating is something like 76.2 I would guess a slope rating of 155? This would mean that as an 18 handicap, I should score 25 over according to the course calculator. So, my score should be 76.2+25= 101.2 or 102 rounded up. Let's say that I've never played it (and I haven't) and give me another 5 to 8 strokes for the hardest holes, then I should still score 107 to 110. 23 strokes short of the OP's estimate.

So, how did the OP come up with 130?

[rkim291968]

Hmm.  I originally responded with at least 130 for my score (currently am at 19 handicap).   I checked my scores from the Pebble Beach courses I recently played (for the fist time) and I realized that I played them to near my handicap (93 at DM, 98 at PB, 101 SB, 102 at SG from forward tee).  BTW, I think I did better at PB due to having a caddy who told me where to hit & putt on every shot.    If I can repeat those performances, I can do 110 to 120 at Augusta on Sunday.   But 130+ is still possible, I am sure.

Other predictions: I think I will hit 7 - 10 spectators, and lose 0 balls with so many spectators & others milling around.

[Monte the Bear]

Let me just let you know about the greens there and how they are prepared - I got there early on the Saturday morning and got to watch them prepare the 16th, plus I also shared a coffee with a couple of the greenkeepers later and chatted to them about the set-up. You basically have a guy with a hand cut mower cutting the green's to 1/8th - that's as far as they dare go on the slopes before they chop earth. The blades are sharpened on every mower every day by a maintenance crew of 15 persons - that's just 15 people maintaining equipment for the week, many from Toro, who supply the hardware down there.

After the green has been cut, a dude on a sit-on roller rolls the green. And he rolls it for about 20-30 minutes. This is happening on all of the greens from 5.00am through to 8.00. A couple of guys, one from the Masters and another from greenkeeping and another from somewhere else set up a stimp on where the hole is going to be located. They test the stimp every 10 minutes of rolling until it hits about as quick as they feel conditions will let them. If it's dry, they rolll the bejesus out of it. It it's wet it gets a light roll and that is it.

Anyone saying they could three putt every one of these greens here is a buffoon. You may two putt a couple, but you will 4 or 5 putt more. These greens are rolled twice a week throughout the year when they are not being dug up. The under soil heating allows them to cook the green dry in 3 hours. Ever wondered why it's always misty around Amen Corner? That's the steam coming from the greens down there - the under soil pipes they have in that corner of the course keeps those greens alive in winter and throughout heavy frosts.

At my course, our greenkeeper was told to prepare super fast greens for the annual club championship in July. He did so, we reckon he got them to about 11. They were unplayable, because of our slopes and because being a links course, the ball was moving in the wind. We never did it again. It's not fun.

[tomvk77]

I don't have a clue about what i would shoot.

As a single hdc i like to think i can play decent golf.

however some courses will live you the feeling you don't.

I played Valderama in spain. The course setup is so hard,

really high rough. It's almost lost ball when you hit it in the rough.

However if we get same conditions as the pro's do, the ball most likely will be found.

Than you are able to  hack a wedge out.

I shot 97 there. and had the feeling is was playing well.

At Augusta i don't know really, if i get to practice the course and get good feel on the greens i think i can manage

a low 90.

[Abu3baid]

Let me just let you know about the greens there and how they are prepared - I got there early on the Saturday morning and got to watch them prepare the 16th, plus I also shared a coffee with a couple of the greenkeepers later and chatted to them about the set-up. You basically have a guy with a hand cut mower cutting the green's to 1/8th - that's as far as they dare go on the slopes before they chop earth. The blades are sharpened on every mower every day by a maintenance crew of 15 persons - that's just 15 people maintaining equipment for the week, many from Toro, who supply the hardware down there.

After the green has been cut, a dude on a sit-on roller rolls the green. And he rolls it for about 20-30 minutes. This is happening on all of the greens from 5.00am through to 8.00. A couple of guys, one from the Masters and another from greenkeeping and another from somewhere else set up a stimp on where the hole is going to be located. They test the stimp every 10 minutes of rolling until it hits about as quick as they feel conditions will let them. If it's dry, they rolll the bejesus out of it. It it's wet it gets a light roll and that is it.

Anyone saying they could three putt every one of these greens here is a buffoon. You may two putt a couple, but you will 4 or 5 putt more. These greens are rolled twice a week throughout the year when they are not being dug up. The under soil heating allows them to cook the green dry in 3 hours. Ever wondered why it's always misty around Amen Corner? That's the steam coming from the greens down there - the under soil pipes they have in that corner of the course keeps those greens alive in winter and throughout heavy frosts.

At my course, our greenkeeper was told to prepare super fast greens for the annual club championship in July. He did so, we reckon he got them to about 11. They were unplayable, because of our slopes and because being a links course, the ball was moving in the wind. We never did it again. It's not fun.

Thanks for the insight!!  great stuff.

[Monte the Bear]

Just on this, Colin Montgomerie said that if he took on a medium handicapper around Augusta, he reckoned he could give the MH 4 shots a hole and still beat them, purely because of the greens speed.

[iacas]

Anyone saying they could three putt every one of these greens here is a buffoon. You may two putt a couple, but you will 4 or 5 putt more.

I really wish people would stay away from calling other people names for suggesting what they would be capable of accomplishing.

Especially regarding putting.

You don't know what people's experiences are, or their relative abilities.

[David in FL]

Just on this, Colin Montgomerie said that if he took on a medium handicapper around Augusta, he reckoned he could give the MH 4 shots a hole and still beat them, purely because of the greens speed.

I'll take that one.....  Heck, I'll take 3 a hole and call it good.  Miss every green by a stroke, and still 4-putt them all for a net 72.  I think I can compete with Monty with those numbers.

[Ernest Jones]

Just on this, Colin Montgomerie said that if he took on a medium handicapper around Augusta, he reckoned he could give the MH 4 shots a hole and still beat them, purely because of the greens speed.

Monty's a jackass of epic proportions. If he's giving out those kinda strokes I can think of at least 6-7 members of this site that I would put serious money on. Fast, perfectly manicured greens are easier to put on than slow, poorly maintained ones.

[teamroper60]

Regarding playing fast greens and putting, I am HORRIBLE with a putter.  It is a very rare round where I get by with less than 36 putts and it is pretty common for me to need 38 or more.     Last summer, I played a round on a course where the greens were stimping at 12.  I only needed 32 putts to make it through that round.  So I am firmly of the opinion that faster greens are easier than slower greens.

[BuckeyeNut]

I'd shoot 62 or better with no problem...................

With all the attention on the big course, nobody would even notice me on the par3 course

[BuckeyeNut]

I'd take Monte's bet .....................and be like Trevino in his early hustler days by betting more money than I had.......

[Lihu]

I'd take Monte's bet .....................and be like Trevino in his early hustler days by betting more money than I had.......

We should get the word out. You'd make good money.

[MS256]

Monty's a jackass of epic proportions. If he's giving out those kinda strokes I can think of at least 6-7 members of this site that I would put serious money on. Fast, perfectly manicured greens are easier to put on than slow, poorly maintained ones.

6-7?

More than that for me.

I only like to bet on sure things but I do have a retirement account I would like to double.

[Unforgiven93]

I think if played really well 80-85 would be achievable, but on an average day I would expect something 85-90. The distance wouldn't be a huge problem, I play a course that is 7450 pretty often.. 75.9 143. It is a beast but I usually shoot around 80 but I can drop below that if I play well. Augusta on Sunday I'm sure would play much more difficult than that.. so yeah. 80-90.

[albatross]

After watching all of the coverage yesterday and seeing so many of the best players in the world struggle on these greens, it makes this thread even funnier. Can't believe Dufner shot 80. I thought he would have a good showing this year.  Ugh...