Is breaking the rules really bad?

[cubdog]

> As far as cheating goes I no longer keep a handicap, if I did I'd play by they rules.

If you aren't keeping score you can do whatever you want and that is not cheating. Didn't we go over this already?

Look Gregory I wasn't responding to you was I? So no "we" didn't go over this already. Sorry you find issue with everything I have to say. Maybe you should just ignore me and I'll do likewise.

cubdog

[GregoryShell]

>> Look Gregory I wasn't responding to you was I? >>>Obviously some here don't share in my faith. You certainly weren't talking about someone that agrees with you on the issue. Sorry if I misread that. >Sorry you find issue with everything I have to say. Not everything, I wouldn't think . I am sure you can come up with something that we can agree on. >> Maybe you should just ignore me and I'll do likewise. You do whatever you want and I will do whatever I want. That is how it works. This is an open forum. Anything you write is open to reponse from anyone who is reading it. If you want to argue with someone privately and not in an open fourm, you should. If someone says something I disagree with in an open forum, I can respond. That's what makes this an open forum. If you are tired of arguing with someone about something you should stop. Simple as that. "And when he pulls his frilly nylon panties right up tight, He feels a dedicated follower of fashion." - Ray Davies

[Lihu]

According to clubdog. There is a new breed of golfer, and we old fogies better get used to it.

Gimmes are cool.

OB is a one shot penalty with no distance.

Sticklers for the rules  -like those who say a 7 is really a 9 have no place in the new world order.

It's all about attitude and claiming the right to say you play off 5 when really you can't break 90.

All these new players have great etiquette and refuse to play with those who like to play it "old style".

They have the moral high ground too, because they give each other six footers to "save time". It's great!!!

Great picture he paints.

Yeah, why call what you play golf, unless you follow the rules?

I really think in this modern era, that you could make an electronic caddie to keep track of your score and any extra strokes, where you can take a drop etc.

Golf is 400 years old.  Anything that has happened since 1960 is insignificant in the big picture.

That's part of the appeal of the game.

Great points.  "I know I took 7 strokes but I really feel like I got more of a 5 on that hole, because that chunked chip really didn't count and I (silently) gave myself that 4 foot putt before I missed it. so put me down for a 5."

Gee, this happened to me this morning, and I still feel good that I made a 7!

It could have been so much worse. . .

I knew I'd get a response. I also know you guys who disagree with me love golf as much as I do. It's good to see such passion. I still have a hard time with the assumption that someone who plays golf by relaxed rules is also a dishonest person in life. That makes no sense.

By the way I'm not some old hippie. I am a Vietnam Vet. But none of that is important. I don't understand why some of you feel the need to make this personal. Whatever.

cubdog

If someone does not have a handicap and plays for fun without cheating anyone, I don't see anything wrong with that either.

It is only if they say they play golf, following the rules is implied. The reason is that so many people (like those on this site), do play by the rules as best as they can. They work really hard so that they yield better scores while playing by the rules that make the game golf.

So, I agree that someone playing for fun and sun on the weekends can do whatever they wish. However, if they are scoring against someone who does play by the rules, They need to follow the same rules. Otherwise, it is cheating.

[cubdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregoryShell

>> Look Gregory I wasn't responding to you was I?

>>>Obviously some here don't share in my faith.

You certainly weren't talking about someone that agrees with you on the issue.

Sorry if I misread that.

>Sorry you find issue with everything I have to say.

Not everything, I wouldn't think . I am sure you can come up with something that we can agree on.

>> Maybe you should just ignore me and I'll do likewise.

You do whatever you want and I will do whatever I want. That is how it works.

This is an open forum. Anything you write is open to reponse from anyone who is reading it.

If you want to argue with someone privately and not in an open fourm, you should.

If someone says something I disagree with in an open forum, I can respond. That's what makes this an open forum.

If you are tired of arguing with someone about something you should stop. Simple as that.






"And when he pulls his frilly nylon panties right up tight,
He feels a dedicated follower of fashion." - Ray Davies

Why don't you just lose the attitude and try to carry on a civil discussion? I don't need you to lecture me on how forums operate. If you have a problem with me why not send me a PM. The open forum is no place to carry on in this manor. I doubt if anyone appreciates it.

Sorry to everyone else. It was never my intent to have this discussion spiral out of control.

cubdog

[iacas]

To say that people that want to play by rules not consistent with the official rules of golf are "cheaters" would be like telling the kids down on the corner lot that they are "cheaters" because they are using "ghost runners", telling guys in D League softball that they are "cheaters" because they have home run limits, or telling the guys down at the city park basketball court that they are "cheaters" because they are playing "make it take it".

Those kids on the sand lot or whatever are all playing by the same established rules. One of them doesn't get to decide that they get four strikes out of the blue.

Unless other rules are established, golf's established rules are the Rules of Golf. In a scramble, if a player hits a mulligan and they're not for sale, that's cheating because it's not playing by the established rules. Leagues might establish rules to play lift, clean, and place all the time. Fine.

But there's a line to be drawn, and if you have one group making up their own rules, while you are playing by a different set, then they aren't very well established, so one group is doing differently.

That's all some people, I think, are saying.

[Fourputt]

I have just one question for those who say that they play "relaxed" rules (meaning essentially that they make it up as they go and their buddies are okay with that):  When someone asks you what is the best score you ever shot, what do you tell them?  How can you possibly give an answer that means anything?  How can you really quantify the state of your game?

When a player follows the rules, plays every round by them the best that he reasonably can, then he can measure his play against anyone else who does the same - anywhere in the world.  To me, that is part of golf's attraction, knowing that I'm playing the same game as Iacas, or Shorty, or Rory McIlroy and my scores can be compared directly to theirs in a very real and honest fashion.

I don't care if it's a "sanctioned" round - I'm not even sure I know what that means.  I played for 22 years in a tournament men's club.  I wouldn't call those competitions sanctioned (although we were chartered by the Colorado Golf Association), but they were always played by the Rules of Golf.  Handicaps were monitored by our handicap committee.  My personal best was coincidentally shot during competition, as was one of my two aces, but they would have been equally valid in a casual round since most of my casual rounds are also shot under the same rules.

Once again, I don't care if you choose not to play by the rules, but I just don't know how you measure progress or decline, or how you compare your scores with other players who may play a different set of relaxed rules.  Or even with your own previous rounds where your imaginary rules may have been different from what they are now.  You make an eagle during a round where you have been fluffing lies and hitting mulligans - how do you place any real value on it?  I admit that I just don't get it.

[No Mulligans]

The score is important to me. And I like to have one score comparable to the next...

But, a 2" putt.  I pick it up just to speed up the pace.  Even if that doesn't really slow us down to tap it in, it just feels awfully picky to take putts of 2 inches or less.  So I guess I don't play by the rules.  I still don't think that affects my score as I'm pretty sure I could make a hundred 2 inch puts in a row.

On the other side of the argument, where do you draw the line... for me it's at about say 10" unless there's a bunch of break and/or steep downhill in which case I'd putt a 10 incher.

Maybe if I was a single digit handicapper I would never take a gimme.  But, at my handicap, I don't think anyone cares.

[MS256]

Those kids on the sand lot or whatever are all playing by the same established rules.

And so are the players in every single daily or weekly game that I'm aware of. They mutually decide they would rather not play by the official rules of golf.

I have just one question for those who say that they play "relaxed" rules (meaning essentially that they make it up as they go and their buddies are okay with that):  When someone asks you what is the best score you ever shot, what do you tell them?  How can you possibly give an answer that means anything?  How can you really quantify the state of your game?

In most such games around here on the weekdays it's mostly a bunch of retired guys. If you asked them what was the best score they ever shot they would tell you their best score when they did play by the rules. They are well aware that the scores in their games are not legitimate scores. One day I asked one of them how he played (just making conversation). He with a smile said "Well I shot a 76 by our rules but we don't play by all of the rules."

They have no need or desire to "quantify the state of" their games. They are just playing a little golf, betting a little money, getting a little exercise, and spending time with their buddies. They know how they are playing based on the only thing they care about and that's whether they are beating their buddies and paying out money or taking home money.

[cubdog]

And so are the players in every single daily or weekly game that I'm aware of. They mutually decide they would rather not play by the official rules of golf.

In most such games around here on the weekdays it's mostly a bunch of retired guys. If you asked them what was the best score they ever shot they would tell you their best score when they did play by the rules. They are well aware that the scores in their games are not legitimate scores. One day I asked one of them how he played (just making conversation). He with a smile he said "Well I shot a 76 by our rules but we don't play by all of the rules."

They have no need or desire to "quantify the state of" their games. They are just playing a little golf, betting a little money, getting a little exercise, and spending time with their buddies. They know how they are playing based on the only thing they care about and that's whether they are beating their buddies and paying out money or taking home money.

This is how things work where I play as well. The score is not the most important thing to most people I play with. Most days I don't even keep score anymore. Exercise, fun with friends and family are far more important to me. It didn't use to be that way but my life has changed as well as my golf game. I know when I'm playing well. I know when I'm hitting good shots. I take pleasure it that. I don't always need to post a number. If that aspect of the game is important to you good for you. Just don't imply that those who take a more relaxed approach to the game are somehow inferior or that we don't love and respect the game as much as you.

cubdog

[iacas]

In most such games around here on the weekdays it's mostly a bunch of retired guys. If you asked them what was the best score they ever shot they would tell you their best score when they did play by the rules.

In my experience, those guys are rare. Ask most guys what they shot or how they're shooting, and they'll give you the scores without detailing all of the ways they don't play Rules of Golf within their foursome.

Just my experience, but I'd reckon there are more people like that - guys who will say "78" without noting they were playing "roll it in your own fairway" and "gimmes inside whatever distance looks good" and "let me re-hit because someone sneezed" rules.

[Lihu]

The score is important to me. And I like to have one score comparable to the next...

But, a 2" putt.  I pick it up just to speed up the pace.  Even if that doesn't really slow us down to tap it in, it just feels awfully picky to take putts of 2 inches or less.  So I guess I don't play by the rules.  I still don't think that affects my score as I'm pretty sure I could make a hundred 2 inch puts in a row.

On the other side of the argument, where do you draw the line... for me it's at about say 10" unless there's a bunch of break and/or steep downhill in which case I'd putt a 10 incher.

Maybe if I was a single digit handicapper I would never take a gimme.  But, at my handicap, I don't think anyone cares.

Exactly, if you don't track your own scores by the rules, you won't know how you are progressing. Standards and rules are important for many other reasons than just saying that you "play by them".

We had an entire thread based on a 12" putt that was potentially turned into a 10" putt. Not sure we want to go down this path again. If you are scoring for handicap and especially in competition, putt/chip everything in.

And so are the players in every single daily or weekly game that I'm aware of. They mutually decide they would rather not play by the official rules of golf.

In most such games around here on the weekdays it's mostly a bunch of retired guys. If you asked them what was the best score they ever shot they would tell you their best score when they did play by the rules. They are well aware that the scores in their games are not legitimate scores. One day I asked one of them how he played (just making conversation). He with a smile said "Well I shot a 76 by our rules but we don't play by all of the rules."

They have no need or desire to "quantify the state of" their games. They are just playing a little golf, betting a little money, getting a little exercise, and spending time with their buddies. They know how they are playing based on the only thing they care about and that's whether they are beating their buddies and paying out money or taking home money.

Most of these guys play exactly by the rules. No gimmes, except on practice rounds.

[newtogolf]

The score is important to me. And I like to have one score comparable to the next...

But, a 2" putt.  I pick it up just to speed up the pace.  Even if that doesn't really slow us down to tap it in, it just feels awfully picky to take putts of 2 inches or less.  So I guess I don't play by the rules.  I still don't think that affects my score as I'm pretty sure I could make a hundred 2 inch puts in a row.

On the other side of the argument, where do you draw the line... for me it's at about say 10" unless there's a bunch of break and/or steep downhill in which case I'd putt a 10 incher.

Maybe if I was a single digit handicapper I would never take a gimme.  But, at my handicap, I don't think anyone cares.

I'm not going to call you a cheater for picking up a 2" putt but I also have to question how much time you're saving by picking it up versus tapping it in, 10 seconds?

It's not like you have to mark the ball, read the putt and putt it out, you walk up to it, tap it in, 10 seconds max.  If you have 2 - 3  2" putts per round, you save a 1/2 minute, not really going to impact the round is it?

[Golfingdad]

I'm not going to call you a cheater for picking up a 2" putt but I also have to question how much time you're saving by picking it up versus tapping it in, 10 seconds? It's not like you have to mark the ball, read the putt and putt it out, you walk up to it, tap it in, 10 seconds max.  If you have 2 - 3  2" putts per round, you save a 1/2 minute, not really going to impact the round is it?

Not even. You can tap it in in one motion while starting to bend over to pick it up. Zero seconds. I just like to hear the sound it makes rattling around in the hole.

[rehmwa]

I just like to hear the sound it makes rattling around in the hole.

this..  so much this

[Zeph]

We may not be "normal" but we enjoy the heck out of our golf and I would like to think we are not being too much of a bother at the local courses we play. They seem to be willing to accept our money each weekend.

I should've written "If you don't keep a handicap or compare scores to others that do follow the official rules , do whatever you want".

You can of course compare scores to anyone that are also not following the official rules, maybe preferably having a list of rules that all of you follow.

As long as you are out on the golf course hitting golf balls, you are playing golf. Play it however you find most fun.

[newtogolf]

Not even. You can tap it in in one motion while starting to bend over to pick it up. Zero seconds. I just like to hear the sound it makes rattling around in the hole.

I agree, I was trying to be generous in the time allotment.  I'm with you, that sound is music to my ears.

[GregoryShell]

>Why don't you just lose the attitude and try to carry on a civil discussion? I don't need you to lecture me on how forums operate. If you have a problem with me why not send me a PM. The open >forum is no place to carry on in this manor. I doubt if anyone appreciates it.

>Sorry to everyone else. It was never my intent to have this discussion spiral out of control

You really think this has spiraled out of control?

I suggest then that you raise your bar a couple notches.

[iacas]

I suggest then that you raise your bar a couple notches.

I suggest you please use the quote functionality. Please stop using ">". That's for email, and email clients are often built to display that properly.

I've skipped over all your posts. Couldn't tell you whether I agree with you or not.

Thank you.