Jump to content

Recommended Posts

190702_gca_lanyi_accelerate_putts_062819

Golf Channel Academy lead coach Sean Lanyi uses analytics to show how accelerating on a putting stroke can...

Uses analytics to show how accelerating through the putt will keep the putter face ‘remarkably square.’ His demonstration shows absolutely nothing except that he’s accelerating through his putts. Total ‘McLesson’ that has zero value. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Replies 411
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Here are three graphs of putting strokes. The s axis is "speed" and the "t" axis is time. We'll take a look at each of these in a moment, but consider first how putting can behave like a pen

It doesn't. It eliminates what, for lack of a better word right now, I'll call "manufactured timing." A pendulum will have its own timing, and it's a very "natural" timing because it's just obeying gr

I just read this, and it's really good...the graph hits home on showing why a bad stroke is bad & a good stroke is good. I've never been one to think 'accelerate through' the ball. My stroke

Posted Images

On 7/3/2019 at 1:37 AM, Vinsk said:
190702_gca_lanyi_accelerate_putts_062819

Golf Channel Academy lead coach Sean Lanyi uses analytics to show how accelerating on a putting stroke can...

Uses analytics to show how accelerating through the putt will keep the putter face ‘remarkably square.’ His demonstration shows absolutely nothing except that he’s accelerating through his putts. Total ‘McLesson’ that has zero value. 

What I have noticed when I "accelerate" through my putts is that I pull them! And the reason that I accelerate is because I haven't taken a deep enough backstroke. Your body panics, since it instinctively "knows" what you didn't do and seeks to make up for it. 

I read this thread for the first time last year, and have been working on it ever since. I'm 66 and putt better now than I did in my 20's! I'm putting 30-40 footers within inches of the cup! This method is a Godsend. Study it, practice it, employ it! 

My golf buddy's are constantly commenting about how well I putt now. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 6 months later...

Ok so I’ve been thinking about this thread for a while now. And I don’t really get it. 
 

As I’ve mentioned on another thread I’ve been working on my tempo getting it close to 2:1 on backswing:downswing.

 

And I don’t see how you are just “swinging a pendulum” and getting anything that isn’t close to a 1:1 ratio?  Especially if you have a short backstroke time like 600ms. I mean you could really slow down the backstroke to give gravity the time to speed it up but it just feels like there is no way that’s happening. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
3 hours ago, Killa said:

Ok so I’ve been thinking about this thread for a while now. And I don’t really get it. 
 

As I’ve mentioned on another thread I’ve been working on my tempo getting it close to 2:1 on backswing:downswing.

 

And I don’t see how you are just “swinging a pendulum” and getting anything that isn’t close to a 1:1 ratio?  Especially if you have a short backstroke time like 600ms. I mean you could really slow down the backstroke to give gravity the time to speed it up but it just feels like there is no way that’s happening. 

In a pendulum, you start the swing in a high position and let gravity move it back and forth. The period of the arc will be the same in both directions.

In a putt, you are controlling the first swing arc from the bottom, then letting gravity and some of your arm power move the putter on the downstroke. The period of the downswing will be different from the backswing that way. You get to control the ratio.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
3 hours ago, Killa said:

Ok so I’ve been thinking about this thread for a while now. And I don’t really get it. 

As I’ve mentioned on another thread I’ve been working on my tempo getting it close to 2:1 on backswing:downswing.

And I don’t see how you are just “swinging a pendulum” and getting anything that isn’t close to a 1:1 ratio?  Especially if you have a short backstroke time like 600ms. I mean you could really slow down the backstroke to give gravity the time to speed it up but it just feels like there is no way that’s happening. 

In addition to what Scott said, you're starting from the bottom of the swing, and at a dead stop, while on the downswing, you are not swinging through to a dead stop (unless you measure all the way to the follow-through).

In other words:

Backswing:

  • Accelerate from dead stop
  • Reach peak speed (which will be lower than on the downswing)
  • Decelerate

Downswing:

  • Acclerate
  • Reach peak speed (higher than the backswing)

That's it. The follow-through gets the "Decelerate" phase, mostly.

In a pendulum, the backswing would be 1:1 as the downswing, but both would either be starting or ending in the same phase: decelerating to a stop, or accelerating to impact.

100 bpm is really probably too fast for you, @Killa.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

3 hours ago, iacas said:

In addition to what Scott said, you're starting from the bottom of the swing, and at a dead stop, while on the downswing, you are not swinging through to a dead stop (unless you measure all the way to the follow-through).

In other words:

Backswing:

  • Accelerate from dead stop
  • Reach peak speed (which will be lower than on the downswing)
  • Decelerate

Downswing:

  • Acclerate
  • Reach peak speed (higher than the backswing)

That's it. The follow-through gets the "Decelerate" phase, mostly.

In a pendulum, the backswing would be 1:1 as the downswing, but both would either be starting or ending in the same phase: decelerating to a stop, or accelerating to impact.

100 bpm is really probably too fast for you, @Killa.

Yes could be. I will try to slow down to 90 and 80 bpm. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 2/8/2020 at 1:36 PM, iacas said:

In addition to what Scott said, you're starting from the bottom of the swing, and at a dead stop, while on the downswing, you are not swinging through to a dead stop (unless you measure all the way to the follow-through).

In other words:

Backswing:

  • Accelerate from dead stop
  • Reach peak speed (which will be lower than on the downswing)
  • Decelerate

Downswing:

  • Acclerate
  • Reach peak speed (higher than the backswing)

That's it. The follow-through gets the "Decelerate" phase, mostly.

In a pendulum, the backswing would be 1:1 as the downswing, but both would either be starting or ending in the same phase: decelerating to a stop, or accelerating to impact.

100 bpm is really probably too fast for you, @Killa.

Ok so I’ve tried it a bit. And the thing is that my putting mat is a bit slow, but not much slower than the courses I mostly play, and it’s 6’ long ending uphill so it plays probably about 8’. So if I want o putt it with a pendulum stroke I need to take the club back almost 2’ to get it to a hole. I can’t imagine what I’d have to do on a 30’ putt. A 1/2 swing almost??

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
6 minutes ago, Killa said:

Ok so I’ve tried it a bit. And the thing is that my putting mat is a bit slow, but not much slower than the courses I mostly play, and it’s 6’ long ending uphill so it plays probably about 8’. So if I want o putt it with a pendulum stroke I need to take the club back almost 2’ to get it to a hole. I can’t imagine what I’d have to do on a 30’ putt. A 1/2 swing almost??

It's exponential.

You have to take it back 2' to send it about 9'?

That feels crazy long/slow.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 2/9/2020 at 8:41 PM, iacas said:

It's exponential.

You have to take it back 2' to send it about 9'?

That feels crazy long/slow.

I might have exaggerated a bit but it’s definitely more than a foot. But that aside, I really don’t get how putting with gravity is supposed to work. 
 

If I understand correctly then we want to putt with a rhythm and that rhythm should be around 2:1 (it doesn’t actually matter for the point I’m trying to make). And then we also want to be putting with a tempo, so let’s say a 500ms backswing and 250ms downswing for arguments sake or somewhere in the 80 BPM range (didn’t calculate sorry).  So the only variable in our putting stroke should be the backswing and follow through lengths. And if we let gravity take the putter head on the downswing, we are talking about a simple pendulum. When we start talking about that then the backswing tempo has 0 influence on the downswing tempo. The downswing time depends (simplified) only on the pendulum length and backstroke length (let’s say we are in a vacuum). So now if we say we want a 1/2” backstroke that will give us a 500ms backswing and 250ms backswing with the ideal 2:1 ratio. Now we do the same 500ms backswing to keep the BPM the same but the downswing time changes significantly. It’s not twice as long but the ratio probably drops to 1,5:1, and will eventually drop to 1:1 if the backswing is long enough. 
 

Maybe I’m overthinking it but these three things just don’t add up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
55 minutes ago, Killa said:

I might have exaggerated a bit but it’s definitely more than a foot. But that aside, I really don’t get how putting with gravity is supposed to work.

We don't actually putt with "gravity" alone.

We need to learn to fire our muscles LIKE it's gravity, which would produce a very clear and simple pendulum-like motion (acceleration and deceleration) curve.


This should be eye-opening to you, so if it's not, re-read it a bunch.

I see where you got off-track, and it's in giving way too much weight to not using your muscles, and actually relying on gravity to drop the putter head. That's not what you should be aiming to do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

35 minutes ago, iacas said:

We don't actually putt with "gravity" alone.

We need to learn to fire our muscles LIKE it's gravity, which would produce a very clear and simple pendulum-like motion (acceleration and deceleration) curve.


This should be eye-opening to you, so if it's not, re-read it a bunch.

I see where you got off-track, and it's in giving way too much weight to not using your muscles, and actually relying on gravity to drop the putter head. That's not what you should be aiming to do.

 

Thanks for the insight. Yes before I reread this thread I actually thought kinda along the lines of what you wrote. But this topic threw me completely off track by mentioning gravity 🙂. So just to recap and to make sure I'm back on the right track - the point is to get the feel of a smooth stroke that feels like it's a pendulum but while we do use our muscles to get the pendulum to our desired rhythm. We don't want to strike at the ball but rather just help the club to get to the right speed just before impact. The constant tempo and rhythm combined with different backstroke lengths help us develop the best length control. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
5 minutes ago, Killa said:

Thanks for the insight. Yes before I reread this thread I actually thought kinda along the lines of what you wrote. But this topic threw me completely off track by mentioning gravity 🙂

Yeah, you misread the "gravity" stuff. I went back and looked, and it was a feeling that many students had given that they've spent their lives accelerating well past impact.

The rest of what you wrote is pretty accurate.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 8 months later...
  • Administrator

Brandt Snedeker "pops" the ball… but still doesn't accelerate. He ever so slightly decelerates. His graphs are very "squished" left-to-right, but they look like the "good" to "great" graphs otherwise.

Brandt2.jpgBrandt.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 2/12/2020 at 3:06 PM, iacas said:

We don't actually putt with "gravity" alone.

We need to learn to fire our muscles LIKE it's gravity, which would produce a very clear and simple pendulum-like motion (acceleration and deceleration) curve.

Late to this party, but this makes the most sense to me. Putter should be going fastest at impact or slightly after (3" past at max).

I may take video of my putting stroke the next time out on the practice green and post it here and cross post to my swing thread, even though it may not completely belong there.

I have always felt that I have had good speed control on putts, even if my read and bead may not always be up to the same quality. Putting always as reminded me of playing pool, which is something that I do at a much higher level than my golf game. I think it would be interesting to have a video in slo-mo with some sort of measuring stick and time bar to show what is going on with my own stroke.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
24 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Putter should be going fastest at impact or slightly after (3" past at max).

No. Before impact, never after impact.

25 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I may take video of my putting stroke the next time out on the practice green and post it here and cross post to my swing thread, even though it may not completely belong there.

Just your Member Swing topic, please.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    Whoop
    SuperSpeed
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo and the code "iacasjun21" for 10% off SuperSpeed.
  • Posts

    • She was a wonderful swimmer. Her accomplishment was similar to Eric Heiden winning the gold in ALL the speed skating events at Lake Placid. Mind boggling. When I visited Sydney a while back, I recall there was a boat named after her, maybe a ferry.
    • How many women have been timed over 1500m in a pool? Not THAT many. Why wouldn't she dominate the times in this event - given that she is so impressively dominant? How many people have played golf competitively? I'll bet 99.9% of people you see on the street couldn't tell you who Oksana Chusovitina is. As for women's swimming, Shane Gould is the only person, male or female, to hold EVERY world freestyle record from 100m to 1500m  + 200m IM SIMULTANEOUSLY. (1972)
    • My goodness, you aren't kidding. For those who don't see the article for whatever reason:  there's a list of the top 25 fastest times ever recorded in the women's 1,500 meter freestyle swim.  Katie Ledecky owns spots 1-13, and also spots 15, 17, 18, 22, and 25.   The closest thing to that I can think of offhand is in threes.  Tiger Woods owns the top three season-long strokes gained: approach ever recorded (granted, these have only been recorded in, I believe, the Shotlink era), and at one point (up until a few years ago), Kurt Warner threw the most yards ever in a Super Bowl, but was also in second and third place on that list. 
    • Day 155.  Quarantine practice plan, day 11.  I really like this drill and I plan to incorporate it into my practices on a regular basis.  I took video but it's still on my phone, I will likely put it in the relevant thread tomorrow afternoon. 
    • Day 28: Long day at work, so not much time left for golf practice today. Managed some work on downswing priority piece, hit 10 balls, 7-iron, lots of rehearsals between shots. 
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. amgolfer
      amgolfer
      (37 years old)
    2. At least 7 handi-andy
      At least 7 handi-andy
      (30 years old)
    3. MSDOGS1976
      MSDOGS1976
      (67 years old)
    4. Rob Lane
      Rob Lane
      (62 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...