2014 U.S. Opens (Plural!) at Pinehurst #2 Discussion Thread

[k-troop]

If anyone is interested in finding out more about Bill Coore, who with Ben Crenshaw, worked on the restoration of Pinehurst No. 2.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/75135/get-to-know-bill-coore

And since there is discussion on how the course will play...

One of the best courses I've ever played is a Coore-Crenshaw.  Chechessee Creek Club right outside of Hilton Head in SC; it's like a Pete Dye course (small, elevated, protected greens; protected doglegs, etc.) except they don't hide anything.  It's all right there in front of you, with excellent use of the terrain, waste/sandy areas, bunker, and native grass.  Really cool golf course.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Could be a factor all week - according to wunderground.com

This is NC. I live in Charlotte and from May until about September this is what the forecast looks like everyday. It may not even rain. Or may just be little spurts.

[linkster423]

This is the "give Phil a last good shot" Open. Reminds of the Open at Pebble Beach that Watson won. It was late in his career and, like Phil, Tom spent little time in the fairway off the tee and relied on a brilliant 100 yard and in game. Best short game I ever saw. Tom, like Phil today, couldn't hit a straight drive and couldn't deal with the thick 6-8 inch rough at typical US Opens. But the Open committee decided to cut down all the rough at PB and Tom took advantage.

Phil will be in the hunt and if his short putting holds up this will be his big chance.

[iacas]

Not sure I like the new Pinehurst. I guess time will tell. Very rough looking and one of the things I love about the US Open is the rough which they did away with this year. The greens look fantastic and I do think brown is good....just don't really like what they did off the fairways.

I feel the opposite. I've been looking forward to the next three years for a long time now.

[Elvisliveson]

Phil obviously could deal with the typically US Open rough as his six second place finishes attest to.

Conversly, Watson only had two top 5s with a high finish of 3rd heading into PB 82' .

[mvmac]

I agree with you that I hope the winning score is close to Even. That's what gives the US Open its "identity." I guess that's my worry is that they've eased up on the toughness of it by widening the fairways and taking away the rough. But I thought Merion was going to be easy last year and I was dead wrong, so I very well may be here as well. People love the US Open because of the challenge of it...myself included.

I think the winning score will still be around even, the greens are still going to be very difficult. You can't have firm, narrow fairways and still have the natural areas (Coore calls it "the stuff). You have to give the players some room to play with.

[1badbadger]

I disagree, I don't mind higher scores. Cause I rather not see the USGA trick up a course by taking the greens unfair fast and way too hard! If the course plays easier, than it plays easier, but every one is still playing the same course. I do prefer staying under -10, but I don't agree with trying to protect par. That has hurt the USGA in the past.

I think this course will play a bit easier than others, but I think around -6 to -10 will win it. I think it will play easier on Thursday and Friday due to the rain coming in. Its going to be hot and dry out fast over the weekend. Sunday might be brutal.

Taking a look at the winning scores since the last time the U.S. Open was at Pinehurst, 5 out of 9 have been at or within 1 shot of even par and 8 of 9 were within 5 shots.  The USGA seems to be able to dial it in pretty good even when they try a less traditional set-up IMO.

2005 Pinehurst Even
2006 Winged Foot +5
2007 Oakmont +5
2008 Torrey Pines -1
2009 Bethpage -4
2010 Pebble Beach Even
2011 Congressional -16
2012 Olympic Club +1
2013 Merion +1

[ChrisP]

I think the winning score will still be around even, the greens are still going to be very difficult. You can't have firm, narrow fairways and still have the natural areas (Coore calls it "the stuff). You have to give the players some room to play with.

A lot depends on weather. If you get a lot of rain, I can see -7 or -8 winning. But it would have to be a lot. That's what happened at Congressional and Bethpage in '09 (what made Bethpage tough the last day was the heavy winds). But if conditions stay the way they are now, then personally I think Even Par or over par will win. It is so dry there that balls are going to have a hard time staying on the greens and fairways.

I love the setup...."the stuff" is just something that I'm a little on the fence about right now, but like I said, my mind can change when I see it on tv Thursday and Friday. Just like with anything new, it takes time getting used to.

[1badbadger]

I have found that most people say that the Masters is their favorite Major. There are different reasons for the preference, but I believe part of the allure is the chance for birdie binges on the back nine on Sunday. Hopefully keeping Mike Davis's affinity for penal rough out of the mix this year will make this more interesting. The greens complexes at Pinehurst will more than protect the sacred "par". I believe the greens at Merion would have done the same without all the narrowed fairways and penal rough.

I enjoy the Masters and the U.S. Open equally...one for the chance of seeing fireworks by the leaders or an exciting come-from-behind charge and the other for testing the best players under extreme conditions and holding on for dear life.  Unfortunately I think the Masters has lost part of this element with the changes made to the course since the late 90s.  It's so long and difficult now that it's not as likely for a short to medium length hitter to contend much less make a charge.  I think they over-reacted to Tiger's win in '97.  Even though he was 12 shots clear of the field, it was still exciting to watch!

[joekelly]

620 yards?  3 iron off the tee, easy 6i and pop a wedge for simple birdie. So says Rory regarding the 10 hole at Piney#2 and his projected mode of attack.  This according to news story from the UK's Telegraph Golf News Correspondent, on  site in North Carolina.

We will see if he (Rory) can keep it under the blanket.

[atb5079]

I'm going to be optimistic about the new Pinehurst. I really wasnt ever a big fan of Pinehurst before. In fact, I really do not like links style courses. Pinehurst I guess is somewhat of a hybrid because of all the trees, but to me its still more so a links course; especially the new layout. I am more of an American traditionalist. I love Augusta. To me Augusta is American golf. I loved Oak Hill, Merion, Oakmont, Winged Foot, Olympic Club, Hazeltine and Valhalla to name a few. But I will say I love these newer courses and newer options for these majors. I think these types of layouts are the future. The links style courses are some of the best overall in the country in Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Shinnecock, Kiawah, Whistling Straits and even now Bandon Dunes and the next to sites Chambers Bay an Erin Hills.

[iacas]

I'm going to be optimistic about the new Pinehurst. I really wasnt ever a big fan of Pinehurst before. In fact, I really do not like links style courses. Pinehurst I guess is somewhat of a hybrid because of all the trees, but to me its still more so a links course; especially the new layout. I am more of an American traditionalist. I love Augusta. To me Augusta is American golf.

You know that Augusta was modeled after… what many consider one of the ultimate links courses: St. Andrews. It originally had very few pine trees, wall-to-wall fairways (the ball could meander into pine straw and stuff), etc. It has grown increasingly more treelined, they've added the second cut (rough), etc. Augusta National USED to be a "linksy" course… albeit one built on some severe slopes.

I loved Oak Hill, Merion, Oakmont, Winged Foot, Olympic Club, Hazeltine and Valhalla to name a few.

What do you think of the new Oakmont and the old one (say, Ernie Els victory era)? Because the "new" one is relatively tree-less. Still has the rough though.

So… why do you dislike links courses? Have you played any true links courses?

[atb5079]

You know that Augusta was modeled after… what many consider one of the ultimate links courses: St. Andrews. It originally had very few pine trees, wall-to-wall fairways (the ball could meander into pine straw and stuff), etc. It has grown increasingly more treelined, they've added the second cut (rough), etc. Augusta National USED to be a "linksy" course… albeit one built on some severe slopes.

What do you think of the new Oakmont and the old one (say, Ernie Els victory era)? Because the "new" one is relatively tree-less. Still has the rough though.

So… why do you dislike links courses? Have you played any true links courses?

I did not know that about Augusta. I still think of Augusta as a more traditional American style, tree-lined course though. I would agree Oakmont is a little more linksy than the rest I listed. I don't dislike links courses. I think they are great for the game and they really are a nice change and fun to watch because they need to be approached very different. I really just don't like the look of them in general. I think Pinehurst is ugly, same with St Andrews and some of the other Euro ones. Call me stupid, and of course its not about look, I just don't how they pan out from a viewer's standpoint. Pebble Beach and Spyglass are gorgeous on the other hand, probably because they are along the water. I haven't played a legitimate links course. I have played 2 around home but they are of course chump change compared to the notable courses.

[mvmac]

I love the setup...."the stuff" is just something that I'm a little on the fence about right now, but like I said, my mind can change when I see it on tv Thursday and Friday. Just like with anything new, it takes time getting used to.

Yeah keep an open mind, I think you'll have a different take by the end of the week.

I did not know that about Augusta. I still think of Augusta as a more traditional American style, tree-lined course though. I would agree Oakmont is a little more linksy than the rest I listed. I don't dislike links courses. I think they are great for the game and they really are a nice change and fun to watch because they need to be approached very different. I really just don't like the look of them in general. I think Pinehurst is ugly, same with St Andrews and some of the other Euro ones. Call me stupid, and of course its not about look, I just don't how they pan out from a viewer's standpoint. Pebble Beach and Spyglass are gorgeous on the other hand, probably because they are along the water. I haven't played a legitimate links course. I have played 2 around home but they are of course chump change compared to the notable courses.

Pebble and Spy are well cared for and a lot of money is spent on keeping them lush. Obviously with links courses like Bandon Dunes and links courses overseas that's a different story. You could say that that style of play is more golf-like than what we typically play in North America. Even though things look more "natural", the conditions overseas, and for this week at Pinehurst are still good, greens will be smooth, lies in the fairway will be good.

I think the restoration of Pinehurst #2 is a thing of beauty. I would absolutely love to play courses like it on a regular basis.

If you ever get the opportunity I would highly recommend you get to play some links golf or "minimalist" courses.

[nevets88]

GMac's ball rests on mini hay thing but it's not rooted. Picks it up hey that's a much better lie! http://www.mobypicture.com/user/Graeme_McDowell/view/16984981

[Ernest Jones]

GMac's ball rests on mini hay thing but it's not rooted. Picks it up hey that's a much better lie! http://www.mobypicture.com/user/Graeme_McDowell/view/16984981

Lol. Mac is hilarious. "The USGA is trying to make this difficult, look, they've got fake rough". Ha ha.

[SteveBamford]

It's going to be a true test of traditional golf this week.  All manner of players 'could' win but those who can only perform on manicured, wide, Par 72s won't. If the rain isn't persistent as

whatwoodtigerdo mentions there is no way that lower than Par wins this week.  Only Payne Stewart in 99 as ever shot under par here across 2 USOs on a much shorter layout.

[saevel25]

It's going to be a true test of traditional golf this week.  All manner of players 'could' win but those who can only perform on manicured, wide, Par 72s won't. If the rain isn't persistent as

whatwoodtigerdo mentions there is no way that lower than Par wins this week.  Only Payne Stewart in 99 as ever shot under par here across 2 USOs on a much shorter layout.

Yet it was a completely different course back then. Not saying it is going to happen often, but i think around even to about -4 will win this tournament.