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Why do you guys want the club head not to pass hands? I usually practice letting the club head pass hands with my pitch shots..

I was making a joke, maybe @GolfLug didn't catch it. Although, there is such a thing as exposing too much bounce in the pitch swing. Ask me how I know ;-)

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Thanks.  I needed a little more "dealing cards" in the backswing.  I kept going after filming this and tried different clubs.  It goes really far with little effort.

Greenish grass in Boston already!!! Good for y'all..

BTW firmer wrist to hold off club head from passing your hands BUT softer arm elbow and above especially. I get into pinching my arms against the upper rib cage too much sometime to stay firm. Great hinge and rotation through impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GolfLug

Greenish grass in Boston already!!! Good for y'all..

BTW firmer wrist to hold off club head from passing your hands BUT softer arm elbow and above especially. I get into pinching my arms against the upper rib cage too much sometime to stay firm. Great hinge and rotation through impact.

Why do you guys want the club head not to pass hands? I usually practice letting the club head pass hands with my pitch shots..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abu3baid

Why do you guys want the club head not to pass hands? I usually practice letting the club head pass hands with my pitch shots..

I was making a joke, maybe @GolfLug didn't catch it.

Although, there is such a thing as exposing too much bounce in the pitch swing. Ask me how I know


Thanks for the comments @GolfLug .  This is the technique from the book I cited.  It is similar to Stan Utley with a little change in the setup. Flare the front foot and emphasize having the chest pointing in front of the ball.  If anything, I should have the right hand facing more skyward at the finish.  I'll keep working on it.

I do recommend the book and will post a review.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

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Below are four videos of drill that I am doing.  I have been working on stopping at A6 then going to A8 hitting balls.  This drill does that but then smooths the whole sequence out (thanks @JetFan1983 ).  The drill focuses on rotating my hips more through the impact zone and up to A8.  I am making progress on that one.  I should have my hips facing target at A8 and I am getting closer.  I also have been working on flattening the shaft from A4 to 5, but that one is still illusive.

I hit balls at increasing speed 50, 60, 80%.  Below are driver and 7 iron DTL and FO.  I did shank one with the 7 iron that almost hit that red house! :doh: The stick in the net is set at dead center and I am trying to always go to the right of it.  This session, I only did this drill and noting else.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

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Looking good!  The weather looks nice as well!

Seems like it will be nice when I get there the last week of May (lets hope things don't change)

Back on topic:  That is some great looking practice, the shallow A4 - A5 is just a pain, but I think you will see it sooner than later...

Hey, if @JetFan1983 can do it, what's stopping us right? :-P

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

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Looking good!  The weather looks nice as well!

Seems like it will be nice when I get there the last week of May (lets hope things don't change)

Back on topic:  That is some great looking practice, the shallow A4 - A5 is just a pain, but I think you will see it sooner than later...

Hey, if @JetFan1983 can do it, what's stopping us right?


Thanks!

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

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Keep at it, Scott. One day at a time. Keep on keepin' on. :-D

Looking good!  The weather looks nice as well!

Seems like it will be nice when I get there the last week of May (lets hope things don't change)

Back on topic:  That is some great looking practice, the shallow A4 - A5 is just a pain, but I think you will see it sooner than later...

Hey, if @JetFan1983 can do it, what's stopping us right?

Haha, perhaps it's a bit too strong to say that I can "do it," but thanks. It's a game for a lifetime! Let's keep working hard, guys!

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Constantine

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Why do you guys want the club head not to pass hands? I usually practice letting the club head pass hands with my pitch shots..


Very simply not break wrists and flip/scoop. Nothing more. But way @boogielicious is doing it (he mentions Stan Utley's method) is not flipping and is VERY proper. I think best to read about his technique from more credible sources but it is more of a sliding club underneath and through the ball. Club head rotates naturally with torso rotation.

Vishal S.

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Thanks for the comments @GolfLug.  This is the technique from the book I cited.  It is similar to Stan Utley with a little change in the setup. Flare the front foot and emphasize having the chest pointing in front of the ball.  If anything, I should have the right hand facing more skyward at the finish.  I'll keep working on it.

I do recommend the book and will post a review.


+1. I have ready his chipping and putting chapters.

Vishal S.

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Below are four videos of drill that I am doing.  I have been working on stopping at A6 then going to A8 hitting balls.  This drill does that but then smooths the whole sequence out (thanks @JetFan1983).  The drill focuses on rotating my hips more through the impact zone and up to A8.  I am making progress on that one.  I should have my hips facing target at A8 and I am getting closer.  I also have been working on flattening the shaft from A4 to 5, but that one is still illusive.

I hit balls at increasing speed 50, 60, 80%.  Below are driver and 7 iron DTL and FO.  I did shank one with the 7 iron that almost hit that red house!    The stick in the net is set at dead center and I am trying to always go to the right of it.  This session, I only did this drill and noting else.


Very nice!! This is a great drill. Not sure if you have played any rounds yet but are you getting a push draw ball flight on the course?

Vishal S.

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Love the drill work. Looks very good. Nice job sir.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Below are four videos of drill that I am doing.  I have been working on stopping at A6 then going to A8 hitting balls.  This drill does that but then smooths the whole sequence out (thanks @JetFan1983).  The drill focuses on rotating my hips more through the impact zone and up to A8.  I am making progress on that one.  I should have my hips facing target at A8 and I am getting closer.  I also have been working on flattening the shaft from A4 to 5, but that one is still illusive.

I hit balls at increasing speed 50, 60, 80%.  Below are driver and 7 iron DTL and FO.  I did shank one with the 7 iron that almost hit that red house!    The stick in the net is set at dead center and I am trying to always go to the right of it.  This session, I only did this drill and noting else.

Very nice!! This is a great drill. Not sure if you have played any rounds yet but are you getting a push draw ball flight on the course?


Push fade right now, which is playable.  It is better than the hook I was fighting last year.  I am still working with my instructor to determine what is my best pattern.

Scott

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I went to the range last night and worked on this drill with a few different clubs.  It was so windy, I couldn't film.  My tripod was shaking in the wind.

I got good feedback from my Evolvr instructor on the latest upload (the videos above) and will keep working on the drill.  Stephan, @sk golf , added for me to straighten my left arm up a bit more at address and tilt my head a bit so my chin is more forward.  I worked on these changes with the drill above for most of the session.

Ball flight was predominantly push fade with a square or slightly open stance.  I made some adjustments to my stance, closing it slightly by moving my right foot back a couple of inches at most, and the ball flight straightened out.  It was really windy, so I'm not sure how much change the flight had.

I hope to take it to the course today and see what happens.

Scott

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Played 9 today. Shot a 43 with two pars and the rest bogeys.  It was cold, 48F and really windy.  Had some good swings and shots and a few bad ones including two tee shot hooks, which I thought I was over.  I then went back to basics and did a few warm up swings doing the drill, which helped. I short game was average with some good pitches, but my 'chipping with a putting method' needs some practice!

I also need to practice severe up and down hill lies for full and short game shots.

Scott

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Shot a 42 in the league tonight.  For the most part, I am seeing improvement.  I had 3 GIR and 3 nGIR with 2/5 up and downs and 3/7 fairways.  My driving was better with my fairway misses being just off with no unplayable hooks.  My short game pitch shots need more work. It is tough to practice those in the winter.

On one driveable par 4 I was 30 yards out on the fairway and short pitched my approach and did not make the green.  I was trying to pitch over a ridge to a tough pin location with my lob wedge.  Brain fart.  The smarter play would have been to pitch to the center of the green.

I also am still struggling to get down hill lie shots up in the air.  I think I will set up my net at home with a downhill lie and post here.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

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Shot a 42 in the league tonight.  For the most part, I am seeing improvement.  I had 3 GIR and 3 nGIR with 2/5 up and downs and 3/7 fairways.  My driving was better with my fairway misses being just off with no unplayable hooks.  My short game pitch shots need more work. It is tough to practice those in the winter.

Glad to see improvements are having an effect on your scoring. I'm sure once you find your groove with the short game, the scores will be even better. [quote name="boogielicious" url="/t/75473/my-swing-boogielicious/60#post_1136133"]I also am still struggling to get down hill lie shots up in the air.  I think I will set up my net at home with a downhill lie and post here. [/quote] @iacas once told me to put the ball farther forward on downhill lies. Helps to counter the loft issue some, but you're not going to get full height from it, really.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Shot a 42 in the league tonight.  For the most part, I am seeing improvement.  I had 3 GIR and 3 nGIR with 2/5 up and downs and 3/7 fairways.  My driving was better with my fairway misses being just off with no unplayable hooks.  My short game pitch shots need more work. It is tough to practice those in the winter.

Glad to see improvements are having an effect on your scoring. I'm sure once you find your groove with the short game, the scores will be even better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I also am still struggling to get down hill lie shots up in the air.  I think I will set up my net at home with a downhill lie and post here.

@iacas once told me to put the ball farther forward on downhill lies. Helps to counter the loft issue some, but you're not going to get full height from it, really.


I got that same piece of advice from Erik.  It is just not some you get to practice a lot.  I will need to set something up to do it.

Scott

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  • 2 weeks later...
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More drill work.  The only change was my head tilt at set up.  Stephan wanted me to tilt it forward a bit.

This is still not fully transferring to the course.  I still revert at times then get flustered and have trouble getting back to basics.  Friday, I lost my swing for about 4 to 5 holes and was topping shots, even with the driver.  I worked my way out of it, but confidence was definitely lost.

Scott

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Latest work.  I have been having the hooks the last few rounds and I think I have been over doing the motorcycling from A4 to 5.  Motorcycling was supposed to help me flatten the shaft at A5.  But I notices in practice videos that I was not getting my right elbow down and coming over the top.  In the videos below, I am instead flattening my wrist at A4 and focusing on the right elbow getting in front. I am still steep at A5 which is frustrating to say the least but A6 looks better.

I am also working on finishing my shoulder turn to get in better position at A7 - 9.  That is a limiter for me as my flexibility is not great.  I work on it all the time though.  It is tough getting old. :-(

Scott

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    • I'm not an "official" instructor but I've been helping people for a few years now. I find that most beginners never get taught a proper concept of how the swing works. I also find that most people need a better understanding of what the arms and hands do before even working on the grip or the rest of the body. This is because what your concept of how the arms work through the downswing will dictate how strong or weak your grip must be. And if your arms work correctly then you can get away with a lot of variation in the lower body and still hit the ball decently. This will be long by the way... now...I get technical because...well...if you're writing it, you have to make it understandable. So let's understand the swing structure of the left or lead arm. The clubhead is controlled by the left hand, the left hand is controlled by the left wrist which is made up of the two bones of the forearm; the ulna closest to the pinky finger and the radius closest to the thumb. The forearm is attached to but can work independently of the humorous or upper arm which ends at the shoulder joint. That's the structure you are working with. Now how each section of that structure can work in different ways so let's talk about them starting at the upper arm. You may have heard people use the term "external shoulder rotation." It's usually used in reference to the right arm but that's okay you need to understand it in the left arm as well. First off...that's not a correct term. The shoulder is a complex structure of three bones; the clavicle in the upper chest/neck area, the scapula or shoulder blade that glides across the back and the end of the humorous bone that is the upper arm. So when you hear that term what they really are saying is "external rotation of the humerus." A simple way to understand this is to think about arm wrestling. If you are arm wresting someone with your elbow on a table you are trying to force your opponents arm into external rotation while your upper arm would be internally rotating. If you are losing the wrestling match you will find that while your elbow stays in place, your forearm and hand will be pushed back behind the elbow as your humerus externally rotates. So in the golf swing we don't want to be the winner of the arm wrestling match... at any point in time! Both upper arms need to externally rotate. The right upper arm externally rotates in the backswing and stays in that position through impact or for some people just before but very close to impact. The left arm must externally rotate in the downswing from impact through the finish. Some people choose to set-up with both upper arms externally rotated...think elbows pointed at the hips or biceps up. Others will start with just the right arm in this position...some people describe it as the "giving blood" position. Others start with both elbows internally rotated...biceps facing inward toward each other. You can set-up whichever way feels best to you but in your backswing and downswing the upper arms MUST externally rotate. Now back to the left arm...with which you should try to control the swing...and the forearm. The forearm is where most people get in trouble because it can rotate left or right no matter which orientation your upper arm is in...try it...it's just how the forearm is structured to work. And this is where you MUST make the decision as to how you want the forearms to work in order to choose how strong or weak your grip must be. Ben Hogan in his book 5 Lessons uses the terms supination and pronation. To illustrate it simply grab a club in your left hand and hold it out in front of you. Rotate your forearm to where your knuckles point to the sky (this is pronation) and then rotate your forearm the other way so that your knuckles point to the ground (this is supination). When your lead forearm is in pronation (knuckles up) the ulna will be on the left side of the radius. In supination (knuckles down the ulna rotates under the radius and the radius is now on the left side of the ulna. Very important that you relate this to the position of the ulna. At the top of the backswing you should be in a position where you feel that the knuckles of the left hand are pointed to the sky. As you rotate your body open and your chest pulls your arms down and into impact you will need to be aware that your ulna stays on the left side of the radius as long as possible. This is the position instructors are trying to have you achieve by pulling the butt of the club into an invisible wall past your left leg while maintaining the 90 degree angle formed by the shaft and your forearm. You've probably seen or heard of that drill as we all have over the years. Now here is the IMPORTANT part that no one seems to ever speak of...what happens from there!?! From that position...ulna on the left side of the radius, shaft and the forearm at a 90 degree angle, hands directly over the ball...you have two choices. 1) You can keep the ulna traveling toward the target on the left side of the radius and only release (unhinge) the wrists to lower the clubhead down into the ball or 2) while you unhinge your left wrist you can rotate your left forearm from the pronated position (knuckles up) to the supinated position (knuckles down) and let the ulna rotate under and eventually to the right side of the radius. If you choose to release the club with method 1 you will need a strong grip. The clubface will stay stable and square to the target throughout the swing but you probably will lose distance and have a very spinny ball flight. If you choose to release the club with method 2 you will probably require a much weaker grip as the clubhead will be less stable as it closes down coming into impact. This method requires more timing but results in more power through impact and usually more distance. You may also hook the ball if you start with too strong of a grip or a closed clubface at address. Method 2 is what most pros use but not all. Method 1 is what causes most people to hit weak, spinny slices and requires an unusually strong grip because with method 1 the left forearm has a tendency to open more coming into impact where the ulna stays in front of the radius too long.    Here's the catch...you need to learn both releases. Release 1 is how you want to use your wedges when you want to make sure the bounce interacts with the turf or if you need to hit a cut from left to right around a tree. You'll get more height and more spin with release 1. Release 2 will let the leading edge tear through the turf taking a nice crisp divot and can be used to hook a ball from right to left. Congratulations to anyone that read through all of this! I believe that once your brain understands precisely how it needs to control the different parts of your body it can do it repetitively on command. Your swing will repeat and not fall apart from day to day. Learn how you want to use your forearms and you can choose your grip and clubface position at address. Either method will work and both methods are used by the best players in the world for different shots.
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