My Swing (mmoan2)

[mmoan2]

I've been Playing Golf for: About 4 years

My current handicap index or average score is: mid 80s on 6500 yd. courses

My typical ball flight is: pretty standard height and fairly long (about 185 carry with a 5i; 270 carry Dr.)

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: A pull hook. 90% of my poor shots are hooks, often coupled with a topped shot that results in a pull hook 10 yards off the ground.

Anyway, here's what I aim to get out of this: A good start on getting my full swing consistent enough to be at least a sub-10 handicap by the end of the year. I only play golf sparingly right now, mostly for financial reasons (and it's 105 degrees plus all day in AZ for three months now), but I should be able to become more serious about it beginning this fall. I would like to work on my swing heavily over the summer.

I took lessons twice - 3 quick ones from a local pro the week I started playing in 2010, and a series of 5 about 2 years ago. I learned a lot about drilling specific aspects of the swing then, and it has made me an even bigger advocate of what I've read here about 5SK and some of the theories prescribed. I feel like there are probably two or so things I am doing drastically wrong that, if improved, could make me a capable ball striker even if there's a dozen little problems to correct that would make me even better. Tonight when I post my swings - I wanted to put a AW, 6i, and driver up from DTL and FO - I plan on commenting on what I see, and then would welcome any suggestions from the forum not only about my swing, but about what I think is wrong with my swing.

Lastly, I cannot strongly enough say how grateful I am this option exists for regular duffers like me. The amount of knowledge presented here by the moderators and their colleagues who contribute is worth hundreds, even thousands, of dollars. It's pretty cool that you find the time to fit this in among your normal professional schedule.

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Videos:

Can't embed my videos on this computer. Well, may as well post and do it tonight...

[mmoan2]

Originally videos files were corrupted, so I got my wife to film me in the park hitting wiffle balls just to have something up here. DTL and FO gap wedge and 6 iron.

[iacas]

Busy day for me here so please don't read this as anything but me wanting to help and not having a LOT of time to go in depth.

I'd check out: and Key #2 drills. Both will have you swinging out to the right a bit more. You fake the weight forward bit at the end but if you can pause near impact you appear flat-footed and 50/50.

Also post a FO video and one showing your grip. It's likely a bit palmy and weak.

P.S. Mind the camera positions. When using a helper, sticks are nice - just put them on your toes and tell your "assistant" to make it vertical.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing

[mmoan2]

Busy day for me here so please don't read this as anything but me wanting to help and not having a LOT of time to go in depth.

I'd check out:  ​ and Key #2 drills. Both will have you swinging out to the right a bit more. You fake the weight forward bit at the end but if you can pause near impact you appear flat-footed and 50/50.

Also post a FO video and one showing your grip. It's likely a bit palmy and weak.

P.S. Mind the camera positions. When using a helper, sticks are nice - just put them on your toes and tell your "assistant" to make it vertical.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing

Thanks for even replying so quickly. I'll make public my posted FO and add the 6 irons tonight. I never realized how wrong about my swing I was until I saw the results this morning!

[CarlSpackler]

Thanks for even replying so quickly. I'll make public my posted FO and add the 6 irons tonight. I never realized how wrong about my swing I was until I saw the results this morning!

It's rather eye opening. I started this spring and realized how broken it was. Creating a thread here and signing up for Evolvr has helped change things for the better even in just a few months. It looks like you have a decent swing already. These guys will make you better.

A quick tip when recording a video. It's better to record horizontally, not vertically so you don't have the empty black boxes on the side.

I look forward to seeing your progress.

[mvmac]

Yes hands working more "in" would be a good feel, also don't be afraid to turn those hips to help you get some "depth".

Question: How do you get deep hands without pulling the club too far to the inside? i.e. "below the swing plane." I can see that my hands (and arms and everything else) are very shallow, but I think I've been swinging this way to compensate for trying to avoid pulling the club too far behind me on the takeaway. Is it a function of forearm rotation and proper wrist cock?

[mmoan2]

Yes hands working more "in" would be a good feel, also don't be afraid to turn those hips to help you get some "depth".

Been drilling this "deep hands" thing a lot by just taking swings in my garage. I don;t have a full length mirror or tripod yet, but I'm getting filmed again this weekend with my camera this time. The feeling of "deep hands" is markedly different! Can't wait to see it on film. It actually feels more rotary, more like a baseball swing, which I find very appealing. Hopefully I'm doing it right. Please let me know soon when I post. Cheers!

[mmoan2]

Some new swings filmed this week with my new "ghetto tripod." I attached my smartphone to two alignment rods using rubber bands and a piece of cardboard. The DTL views were so off line I didn't even post them, so I'll need to make the tripod a bit more reliable.

[mmoan2]

Here's driver DTL at 4x slower speed.

Some things I noticed. My grip is incredibly weak. I've spent a few days figuring out how to do a "proper" grip, or at least a stronger one. I remember the feeling from a lesson I took about 3 years ago. Get your cameras out, amateurs. You'll be amazed at what you see.

I have almost no lag. It's a very sweeping swing, like a pendulum machine. How should I go about working on developing the kind of downswing that demonstrates a sharp club/arm angle "lag" with a shaft lean, good compression, etc.? Do I need to "fire" my hips forward and ease up on the tension in my upper body and arms? I fell like that's what may be happening. I think because I lack good flexibility I try too hard to swing too hard with my whole body, which creates this clunky swing.

Because of my lack of flexibility, should I shorten my swing? I absolutely cannot turn my shoulders 90 degrees - maybe 80 tops - away from setup. My body just won;t do it, even if I just stand up straight and turn back slowly without holding a club. Again, I think because I'm trying too hard to make a big shoulder turn I get that "front shoulder dive-bomb" effect on the backswing.

Just some thoughts. Thanks again.

[iacas]

Some things I noticed. My grip is incredibly weak. I've spent a few days figuring out how to do a "proper" grip, or at least a stronger one. I remember the feeling from a lesson I took about 3 years ago. Get your cameras out, amateurs. You'll be amazed at what you see.

Good.

Because of my lack of flexibility, should I shorten my swing? I absolutely cannot turn my shoulders 90 degrees - maybe 80 tops - away from setup. My body just won;t do it, even if I just stand up straight and turn back slowly without holding a club. Again, I think because I'm trying too hard to make a big shoulder turn I get that "front shoulder dive-bomb" effect on the backswing.

It's not really a lack of flexibility. It's the wider-than-necessary stance plus the hip sway that limits your turn.

See this for more: .

[mmoan2]

Good.

It's not really a lack of flexibility. It's the wider-than-necessary stance plus the hip sway that limits your turn.

See this for more:  ​ .

Is this a good rule of thumb for stance width?

- a bit less than shoulder width for wedges

- Pretty much shoulder width for irons (maybe two inches different from 9 to 4-iron)

- A bit more than shoulder width for woods

Also, does the wider stance make a hip turn more difficult? When I played baseball, I was encouraged to have a wider than normal stance, which is probably in my blood now. It just feels more stable to me.

How would you suggest I work on reducing hip sway and promoting hip turn? I checked the link and saw just how much it must be affecting my swing, but I didn't see much in the way of tips for practicing it. Should I plant a rod in the ground just behind my right hip to indicate that I'm pushing it back - aka "swaying?"

Also, I take it forward hip press has nothing to do with this problem? That's still a requirement, right?

[Jeremie Boop]

Is this a good rule of thumb for stance width?

- a bit less than shoulder width for wedges

- Pretty much shoulder width for irons (maybe two inches different from 9 to 4-iron)

- A bit more than shoulder width for woods

Also, does the wider stance make a hip turn more difficult? When I played baseball, I was encouraged to have a wider than normal stance, which is probably in my blood now. It just feels more stable to me.

How would you suggest I work on reducing hip sway and promoting hip turn? I checked the link and saw just how much it must be affecting my swing, but I didn't see much in the way of tips for practicing it. Should I plant a rod in the ground just behind my right hip to indicate that I'm pushing it back - aka "swaying?"

Also, I take it forward hip press has nothing to do with this problem? That's still a requirement, right?

I could be wrong but I believe you use the same stance width for all "normal" shots. Wider stance increases coil tension. This is good somewhat if you are flexible because it can help with swing speed from what I had read long ago. Narrower stance allows for less restricted turn. I think, ideally, stance should be about shoulder width for most people. Again, this may not be completely accurate, it's just what I remember from stuff I've read through the years.

[mmoan2]

Spent a good deal of time this weekend working on my swing - close to 6 hours likely. The first 4 or so were very productive, and the final two at the range were a train wreck. Whenever I try to "bring what I've learned" to the range and make full swings, I realize that I've not ingrained anything I learned nearly enough to "own" it. Result - lack of improvement. So I wanted to map out my plan for improvement on here; when I eventually pull the trigger to sign up for Evolvr, I'll have some professional assistance, but for now it's just me, so I was hoping to get a little feedback.

My plan for the week - I'm going to film everything I do on my phone.

Work on swing for about an hour every night, M-F. For the first 30-45 minutes, work only on a very specific thing. Then for 15 or so minutes, take some half-speed swings, trying to incorporate the new technique. The next day, I will review the prior day's drills for the first 15 minutes or so, and then repeat the process.

Monday - grip and stance only

Grip : Club in fingers (primarily pinky-middle finger)

Stronger left-hand grip, like the picture Mike put in that thread about grip where a nail would go through the bone atop your thumb into the middle of the shaft.

Secure the left hand with heel pad to make it feel comfortable enough to free tension.

Thumb straight down shaft on left hand

Right hand index finger 1st knuckle on back of shaft, cross thumb across rather than straight

Stance - flare feet more

Feet closer together. Grip 9-iron through driver to get comfortable feeling narrower stance with proper spacing per club.

Tuesday - takeaway (to about parallel with ground)

No head movement

Extend left arm, leave right arm fairly loose with bent elbow

rotate hips and shoulders, but don't sway.

Wednesday - backswing

No head movement

exaggerate rotation without swaying head or hips. Both should remain in position (reference against a point I put on camera), but really try to stretch because I don't turn very well

Get rear hip from "over foot to over heel"

Thursday - downswing

exaggerate firing of hips

exaggerate forward hip slide

Friday - film some full swings at half speed and see if I can make any changes. Film about 5 full speed swings with a 7-iron to be posted on here vs. swings I will film tonight beforehand.

The reason I'm posting this now, aside from just putting my plan in a visible format to follow, is to see if I can get assistance with the following:

1. Is this approach a good idea? Are there too many things to work on in a short period of time?

2. Am I succeeding at doing them based on the videos posted?

3. Are these the correct things I should be working on?

I will post about a 6 minute video on Friday or Saturday. Some "Before" swings, then about a minute of what I was working on and how, then "after" swings. I'm not expecting to go from schlub to Ben Hogan in a week practicing swing moves in my driveway, but I would like to see if people have noticed me incorporating these changes (correctly) into my swing.

Thanks

[Abu3baid]

It is just way way too much! How about you just work on one or two things until it is good then move on? The way you have it later out you might not change anything! I think that will work so much better and I think others will agree! What do you think the two most important things for you are now?

[Jeremie Boop]

Eyad is right, you need to focus on one or two things maximum at a time until they become ingrained into your swing. The only thing I really saw Iacas mention was too wide of stance and need to work on centered pivot. So I would just focus on narrowing your stance and keeping a centered pivot. Once you have the centered pivot down you can move to whatever is next.

[mmoan2]

Yeah, maybe you're both right. As I thought about this, I think the centered pivot thing is really the main culprit of much of my problems. I'll see what I can do about that first. Tonight I'll post some swings as-is. Saturday, some with a week of working on "centered pivot" using suggestions from the pros who run this site. Then keep working on it while trying to add something else. The stance issue should be something I can fix in 5 seconds, anyway. Just put your feet in a position using reference points and there you go!

[Abu3baid]

Yeah, maybe you're both right. As I thought about this, I think the centered pivot thing is really the main culprit of much of my problems. I'll see what I can do about that first. Tonight I'll post some swings as-is. Saturday, some with a week of working on "centered pivot" using suggestions from the pros who run this site. Then keep working on it while trying to add something else. The stance issue should be something I can fix in 5 seconds, anyway. Just put your feet in a position using reference points and there you go!

You would be surprised too.. Sometimes when you fix some of these fundamental things, other issues you may have clean them selves up.. As @mvmac likes to say sometimes, you get things fixed for free when you fix grip, pivot and turn rates.. Good luck!

[mvmac]

Is this a good rule of thumb for stance width?

- a bit less than shoulder width for wedges

- Pretty much shoulder width for irons (maybe two inches different from 9 to 4-iron)

- A bit more than shoulder width for woods

Also, does the wider stance make a hip turn more difficult? When I played baseball, I was encouraged to have a wider than normal stance, which is probably in my blood now. It just feels more stable to me.

How would you suggest I work on reducing hip sway and promoting hip turn? I checked the link and saw just how much it must be affecting my swing, but I didn't see much in the way of tips for practicing it. Should I plant a rod in the ground just behind my right hip to indicate that I'm pushing it back - aka "swaying?"

Also, I take it forward hip press has nothing to do with this problem? That's still a requirement, right?

Heels just outside the hip joints. Turning each foot out and the knees out will also help the hip turn. Yes if you get too wide the hips will want to slide rather than turn.

So bring the heels a couple inches closer together on each side and turn both feet out.