• Announcements

    • iacas

      Visit FlagstickRule.com   03/13/2017

      Visit the site flagstickrule.com to read about and sign a petition for the USGA/R&A regarding the one terrible rule in the proposed "modernized" rules for 2019.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
seanfitzg

Chipping. Mickelson/Utley versus Leadbetter/Pelz

9 posts in this topic

First time post, from a long time lurker.  I think this is an ongoing debate on this forum.

I believe I have a fairly solid golf swing as I've been playing for a long time (see here ), but right now I have an absolutely terrible short game, especially around the greens.

2 years ago I bought Stan Utley's book's short game book to try and improve my sort game, especially my chipping.  I've also watched Mickelson's short game DVD.  Both of these guys promote the hinge & hold method (see also here ).  But I think my short game has become substantially worse by using this technique.  I'm thinning chips, duffing chips, and I no longer have any confidence in making solid ball contact.

After much frustration I decided to watch the chipping section on David Leadbetter's old short game DVD yesterday. I think it's excellent: much simpler, more like putting (with the putting grip) and less margin for error.  In fact, Leadbetter's method was how I used to play a chip, the same thing I learned years ago when I read Dave Pelz's book .  In fact I had much more success back then, so that now I think I have to return to that method.

It made me think - perhaps Leadbetter's/Pelz's chip-putt method is a far easier technique when, like me, you don't have the time to put the hours in around the practice greens.   Mickelson/Utley's method is more for the low handicapper that has the time to get it right, and the confidence to make good contact.

What do you think?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

I think the methods are really for different situations.  Chipping with a a putting method works well for just off the green from the fairway or very light rough. @mvmac posting a video of this technique below.

But there are situations where I will use an Utley style chip too.  These are usually much longer chips where I need to either get some height or a long roll out.  For any situation where I need height, I will use a pitch.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I like Dave Stockton's advice about keeping it simple and just try for a low shot or high shot I don't like to get to much into mechanics and go knee height and below for "chipping" and chest height and above for "lobbing ". It I try to hit something in between I almost always mess up my shot
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Additionally, this video and thread have done well to help a lot of people learn to pitch:

I would tend to agree that "hinge and hold" is of limited use. Phil doesn't "hinge and hold" on too many shots, if you watch him. It may be his feel for a lot of shots, but feel and reality are often two very different things.

Good luck!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 years ago I bought Stan Utley's book's short game book to try and improve my sort game, especially my chipping.  I've also watched Mickelson's short game DVD.  Both of these guys promote the hinge & hold method (see also here).  But I think my short game has become substantially worse by using this technique.  I'm thinning chips, duffing chips, and I no longer have any confidence in making solid ball contact.

What do you think?

Sounds like you are coming in too steep and/or you are too armsy.

Pitching -- think wide coming down (club comes down before club comes forward - more of U contact at the bottom instead of a V contact) so you can use the bounce. Stay connected with the body for good rhythm.


And simply, Chipping should be wrist hinge, not wrist cock. Pitching will have hinge and wrist cock.


Relax.

(I use styles that are a bit of Utley, Phil, and what I've found on TST, depending on what I'm trying to do)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

There's nothing wrong with anyone's teaching of the short game. The problem lies with the the golfer being able to utilize those different teachings.

I liked Pelz's stuff for a while, and then I tried Utley's stuff. They both worked well for me, but I wanted a little more from my chipping game. I found some info from an older golfer (Paul Runyon) which gave me a better understanding of what I was trying to accomplish. I never looked back after reading/practicing his information. Here's a link to one of his videos.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Thanks guys,

So if you are using the Utly method, does the Chip-Putt ever come into play?  The reason I ask is because Leadbetter appears to suggest that this is the best chipping method (with a putting grip), whereas Utly never mentions it at all.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys,

So if you are using the Utly method, does the Chip-Putt ever come into play?  The reason I ask is because Leadbetter appears to suggest that this is the best chipping method (with a putting grip), whereas Utly never mentions it at all.

I think you've got to find your personal comfort zone.

On a chip not too far off the green, I use a traditional grip, move closer to the ball, set the wedge more up on its toe, weight on front foot, hands even or slightly ahead of ball, and use a wrist hinge with some relaxed rhythm in the swing. It's not a big swing and it may resemble more of a putting motion, if I ever videoed it. lol.

But that's me. You need to find your own zone of consistency.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Thanks guys,

So if you are using the Utly method, does the Chip-Putt ever come into play?  The reason I ask is because Leadbetter appears to suggest that this is the best chipping method (with a putting grip), whereas Utly never mentions it at all.

I use both.  The chip-putt is used when I am just off the green and need a little carry to get over the fringe.  For longer bump and run type chips, I will use the Utley method.  One thing about the Utley method is I will get the ball to check up because it adds a lot of spin with good contact.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    PING Golf
    Leupold Golf
    Snell Golf
    Talamore Golf Resort
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • Exactly. Unfortunately, we had a ringside seat to just such a thing yesterday.  The group ahead of us had finally made it to the green on 3.  One was in a green side bunker, while the others were on the green itself.  I asked my buddy, blade or chunk, as we watched from 60 yards out.  He said he'd leave it in the bunker.  I won.  Hard blade 30 yards over the green.  The remainder of the group WAITED while he raked the bunker and then walked completely across the green and proceeded to chip all the way back, almost dumping it in the same bunker again.  Again, Larry, Moe, and Curly wait for Bunker Boy to meander back and play his shot before playing theirs.  After all, he was away...   3 more swings and he was finally in the hole.  Total elapsed time that group took from when they reached the green, nearly 15 minutes!   We caught them on the next tee box in time to watch two of them knock it into the junk short of the fairway.  When it became obvious that they had no intention of acknowledging us, we politely asked if we could play through while they searched for their balls, and thankfully they agreed.   3 hours later, as we were teeing off on 18, we saw them driving up to the tee box on 12.  Not good golfers, true, but more than anything, they simply didn't move with any sense of purpose, or efficiency.  If we'd have had to play behind them much longer, I would have cut my own throat with my wedge!  
    • I love watching those shows on the golf channel.  Especially Michael Breed.   But, ultimately, it's not really personalized instruction, so you don't really get too much instruction from it.   Maybe a swing thought idea here and there, and some short game drills to work on.  As a matter of fact, I think a long while ago, I learned how to hit out of the sand from the golf channel.  That is still, to this day, the one skill I gain strokes on all of my friends at.   (unfortunately, I imagine bunker shots are like a SV (-8), given that I have like 1 per round.  tops.) But, it's still quite enjoyable nonetheless.   It's always fun to listen to people talk about the golf swing.  If your'e in to that kinda thing.  
    • Thing is that I don't consider myself a poor putter. I played a tournament on one of the nicest courses in our country yesterday. Probably the fastest greens and they kept getting faster as the sun was shining yesterday (I was told that by a friend in my flight that finished with a 76).  I had 38 putts on 17 holes. I had 5 3 putts. 2 of those 3 putts came on the first 2 holes. And I was rarely inside 10 feet for the first putt. In a round of 101 over 17 holes (had ESC on one par 5 where I picked the ball up) 38 putts were pretty decent. 
    • I carry 4 wedges right now...

      PW - 122 Yards (Max)  115 Yards (90%)
      AW - 107 Yards (Max)  100 Yards (90%)
      54° - 95 Yards (Max)  85 Yards (90%)
      58° - 80 Yards (Max)  75 Yards (90%)

      Inside of 100 yards... it really depends a lot on my lie and where the flag is located.  I like to play a lower flight with my 54° when a pin is back... but I prefer a higher shot with my 58° when a pin is up front.  

      I'm inconsistent (at best) when I get inside 70 yards.  I've tried the 'clock' system with my arms, but I find that if I pay too much attention to my arms, I forget to move my lower body and that leads to some really, really bad results. 

      CY
    • My 60 is good up to about 75-80 yards mostly 56 is good up to around 100 50 is good up to about 125 ish PW is good up to about 135-140  Of course the are all to be taken with a grain of salt because my swing is pretty junk so these are expected distances on good strikes which do not happen as often as I like. Most of the time I prefer to fall a bit short of my target as opposed to long as the courses around here tend have harder ground and/or more trouble long of the green.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Isaac03
      Isaac03
      (33 years old)
    2. phillyk
      phillyk
      (27 years old)
    3. PhishAreFriends
      PhishAreFriends
      (27 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon