How to address a cheat (or call him out)

[CraiginKSA]

The simplest way to stop a cheater is for YOU to keep the score card. Grab the card at the beginning of the round and after each hole write down everyone's score! It's not like you're solving differential equations! Fred, nice par! Bert, three Jack for a bogey Elmer, three on and two putts - bogey Dad, topped drive, two in the bunker, left it in the bunker, four on and three putts - triple! Damn Pops! You made a mess of that hole! How hard was that? Don't try and pull him aside and reason with him. He knows he makes Chella Choi look like Abe Lincoln. That's a waste of time. Get that score card! Problem solved! The "miraculously finding the lost ball" trick is a little harder. You have to follow him into the woods. He still may get away with dropping one on the sly, but if you're right there with him you may catch him at it. Then it's, "wtf! Did you just drop a ball out of your pocket!?!"

[Lihu]

1-My league has been around for 70 years. We have a 2 hour window to get 30, 2 somes off. so the pace of play works well, especially when some of our membership are older and not as mobile. So the dropping at a OB is strictly for pace of play. This is not the masters tournament, this is a beer league.

. . .

You answered your own question.

Forget about the "cheating" and have some fun golfing and beer drinking with your dad.

If you want to play serious rounds, play with the more serious league members.

[mvmac]

What gets me, is when he cheats during our league tournaments, and then I have to endure the league telling me "your old man is a good golfer", "your father really had a good round", "maybe one day you will be a good golfer like your father".

I have to mumble and just take a sip of my beer.

Then you either have to keep his score for him, call him out if he tries to cheat or not do anything and just have fun playing golf with your dad.

Is there a chance someone else could call him out?

[Elmer]

Then you either have to keep his score for him, call him out if he tries to cheat or not do anything and just have fun playing golf with your dad.

Is there a chance someone else could call him out?

The 2 other guys have said something to him, and he just brushes it off as the one time it happens.

But he talks about his golf game, like they are unaware.

They make fun of him for never loosing a ball and getting a "Elmer Sr" kick from the woods.

these 2 guys are also in my league, but we dont play at the same level, so paths never cross. I dont think they would out him to the league

Dont get me wrong for a 66 year old the old man plays well, he puts it down the middle (from the white/middle tees) and he can card some birdies and pars.

But you have to take the good with the bad!

[Lihu]

The 2 other guys have said something to him, and he just brushes it off as the one time it happens.

But he talks about his golf game, like they are unaware.

They make fun of him for never loosing a ball and getting a "Elmer Sr" kick from the woods.

these 2 guys are also in my league, but we dont play at the same level, so paths never cross. I dont think they would out him to the league

Dont get me wrong for a 66 year old the old man plays well, he puts it down the middle (from the white/middle tees) and he can card some birdies and pars.

But you have to take the good with the bad!

No joke, but one of the people I was playing with hit into some trees and it kicked out into the middle of the fairway like someone threw it. It probably just bounced off one of the generators placed temporarily in the trees, instead of going into the water just beyond the trees.

This type of stuff does happen. Maybe it's just the people I play with.

The single digit we played with did everything by the rules. The other bogey players (guessing an 18 and a 25 handicap), kicked stuff out of dead tree branches and everything else that made a clean shot difficult. Although, the 25 putted really well.

When I looked over for a reaction the single digit who plays with them regularly just fluffed it off and "let him learn to play first, then learn the rules". It was unsaid, and he simply accepted the scores without question.

In your dad's beer league case, I would just let him play how he plays. If he cares about having a handicap, it will eventually dawn on him to keep track of his scores. He'll probably do better than he thinks.

I will end with the fact that in a serious men's club or league, you could get seriously excommunicated from the entire golfing community for cheating and sandbagging. There's serious money on the line and I would think it could even be grounds for felony or misdemeanor charges.

[Golfingdad]

No joke, but one of the people I was playing with hit into some trees and it kicked out into the middle of the fairway like someone threw it. It probably just bounced off one of the generators placed temporarily in the trees,

"Don't count that."

The single digit we played with did everything by the rules. The other bogey players (guessing an 18 and a 25 handicap), kicked stuff out of dead tree branches and everything else that made a clean shot difficult. Although, the 25 putted really well.

When I looked over for a reaction the single digit who plays with them regularly just fluffed it off and "let him learn to play first, then learn the rules". It was unsaid, and he simply accepted the scores without question.

This sounds like me.  I really don't care how anybody plays unless we're in a competition.  And, in fact, sometimes, I encourage them to cheat.  Played with a co-worker of mine (total beginner - only really playing now cuz he doesn't want to embarrass himself in a fundraiser scramble we're playing in later this month) the other day and we walked up to one of the few decent drives he hit and his ball was in the middle of a divot.  I just rolled it out of that divot for him and said "You don't need to be hitting from out of there."

No need to encourage frustration and discourage participation.

[MS256]

SMH!

We have threads about 15 inch holes and such to get people on the course and then in other threads people being condescending toward fun leagues that want to play OB as a lateral hazard. Probably because nobody was having much fun watching people also hit their provisional OB and damn sure not having any fun watching people making the walk back to the tee box because they didn't find any of them.

And most of all the "A" players not enjoying getting to watch the "D" players putting for all of those quadruple bogeys.

Not to mention saving time. Of course those league rules save time. I was in one that added approximately 30 minutes a round when they decided to no longer play "in the leather".

[Lihu]

SMH!

We have threads about 15 inch holes and such to get people on the course and then in other threads people being condescending toward fun leagues that want to play OB as a lateral hazard. Probably because nobody was having much fun watching people also hit their provisional OB and damn sure not having any fun watching people making the walk back to the tee box because they didn't find any of them.

And most of all the "A" players not enjoying getting to watch the "D" players putting for all of those quadruple bogeys.

Not to mention saving time. Of course those league rules save time. I was in one that added approximately 30 minutes a round when they decided to no longer play "in the leather".

Two older ladies following us today mentioned that our pace of play was slow. They also mentioned their displeasure watching some of us (luckily not me, today) taking 5 to 10 minutes to putt.

[Shorty]

SMH!

We have threads about 15 inch holes and such to get people on the course and then in other threads people being condescending toward fun leagues that want to play OB as a lateral hazard. Probably because nobody was having much fun watching people also hit their provisional OB and damn sure not having any fun watching people making the walk back to the tee box because they didn't find any of them.

And most of all the "A" players not enjoying getting to watch the "D" players putting for all of those quadruple bogeys.

Not to mention saving time. Of course those league rules save time. I was in one that added approximately 30 minutes a round when they decided to no longer play "in the leather".

That's all well and good.

But these types all claim to have handicaps. They don't.

I'll wager the cheat that the OP is about claims to play off a single figure handicap.

[Strandly]

Almost every time I've encountered women on a course it's the thing nightmares are made of... about 100 years old and the speed to match.

[Lihu]

That's all well and good.

But these types all claim to have handicaps. They don't.

I'll wager the cheat that the OP is about claims to play off a single figure handicap.

I think the original poster mentioned that if his dad broke 85 then he would be done with golf.
Of course, there appears to be some information that is not too clear or ill defined.

1st off, I am not quitting the league. I joined the league first and badgered him for years to join. SO if anyone is quitting it is him. I intent to play in this league for 30 more years!

2nd, his typical round, which he plays 3 times a week. Is to go out with a bunch of guys (hackers) they usually play the same course. They play 18, no side bets just hacking the ball around and patting themselves on the shoulders at the end.

Regarding league play, we have strict league rules voted on by the members. We play winter rules, lift and clean. If a ball is hit out of bounds we do not do a stroke and distance, we keep the pace of play going. Go to point of entry (into OB) and take a drop and add a stroke and move on.

Anyway I think this has nothing to do with forgetfulness or memory, this has everything to do with ego and lack of integrity. As I had addressed this issue before, I explained that there is nothing wrong with being a bogie golfer and there is nothing with having a train wreck hole or round for that matter.

As my father is fond of saying "if I ever shot an 85 I would quit the game", however he actually has, he just wont card that score. He is under the impression that "I will never be good at this game" because he will never be a scratch golfer.

He likes to be able to stand infront of other people and talk about how good he is, but there is no shame in having a fault. I  have explained to him previously, while everything thinks you are a good golfer, what happens when they find out you cheat?

NO one will ever believe a score you  card ever again.

I remember the first time I caught him cheating in a league tournament, prior his entering the league (he was playing as a guest). 2nd shot on long par 4, he hit a hybrid up to an elevated green. I had already  hit my ball the the approach. I saw his shot sail into the woods. I dropped him off on the left side of the approach and took the cart up the right, out the of the corner of my eye as I am driving up the cart path I see him fling a ball from the woods on the the green, rolling away from the woods.

I was speechless and he told everyone he must have got a good kick.

on the next tee I confronted him and he told me he got a good kick.

This is not forgetfulness, this is cheating!

This is about being able to stand at the bar and tell everyone he can shoot a 2 over.

Where as I go and shoot some birdies, pars, boggies and doubles and triples.

I enjoy the journey and understand that my game will be a snowman following a birdie.

It is a challenge and some days we are the dog and somedays we are the hydrant

[MS256]

That's all well and good.

But these types all claim to have handicaps. They don't.

I'll wager the cheat that the OP is about claims to play off a single figure handicap.

No they don't. I know of 3 local games where I would bet my next pay check that the only players in those games with handicaps are the "A" players and some of them don't.

[Flav]

To the OP is there money or awards on the line? I'm willing to bet others have noticed what he does and just let it go. While confronting him is the right thing to do sometimes it's just not the best thing to do. If it's a major issue with the others then let them handle it and keep your relationship with your dad if it's important to you and one you want to keep. You only get one father in life and after all golf is just a game.

[Elmer]

I think the original poster mentioned that if his dad broke 85 then he would be done with golf.

Of course, there appears to be some information that is not too clear or ill defined.

The league handicapping System has him at an 8 (4 per 9). The league plays 9 hole matches a week.

His pile of score cards at home are all littered with pars. His idea of a handicap is more like an average IE: "I shoot alot of pars there fore I am a par golfer".

He refuses to admit that he is flawed IE" if I ever shot a 50 for 90 holes I would kill myself"

his idea of being "good at golf" is shooting par every round.

To the OP is there money or awards on the line? I'm willing to bet others have noticed what he does and just let it go. While confronting him is the right thing to do sometimes it's just not the best thing to do. If it's a major issue with the others then let them handle it and keep your relationship with your dad if it's important to you and one you want to keep. You only get one father in life and after all golf is just a game.

Tournament wise, yes. There are usually prizes or money for the top Gross & Top net. Considering I carry an 18 league handicap and 17.8 for GHIN, I am usually playing for the net. (that is unless I have a trainwreck of a hole, which I can be prone to do)

As I said before I am as competitive as anyone, but it is tough to look towards a weekend of golf when in the back of your mind the cheating turns him in to an evil figure. But then again I want to be competitive and to beat him, even if I have to use my handicap to do so!

But even if I ignore it, if other suspect the cheating, does it reflect poorly on me for doing nothing.

[Flav]

I don't believe it reflects poorly on you. You have addressed it with him which is all you can do. I would just leave it at your doing what's right and you obviously cannot change him at this point. Maybe suggest to the officers prior to the tourney to have each cart score the other cart. This way he's not scoring the card for himself. I'm only being easy on him because the other guys have to have noticed his scoring and have not called him out which I know of I would have even in a joking manner...the group I play with always has a remark for fuzzy math. Hey I thought 3+4 was 7 not 5 or double bogie is 2 over part right? Suttle but obvious remarks are all it usually takes for the occasional "slip."

[HardRight]

At the beginning of each round, amongst the 4 of you, choose two scorers who have to verify each score before teeing off at the next hole.

If you single him out, you are definitely going to negatively affect your relationship with your father. Not worth it.

I'd suggest before you start your next round, someone lightheartedly say ''let's play for a $/hole ($o.25 or whatever)."

Then when it's agreed upon, just say "we need to make sure the scoring is super accurate' and appoint two people to keep score that have to agree on each holes final score before teeing off at the next hole

Before the game starts, balls are marked, it is laid out to everyone score will be kept accurately, and your father hasn't been singled out.

What an awkward position to be in with your own dad!

There are a million ways to cheat though. If you're committed to cheating, you can still find a way.

[mvmac]

SMH!

We have threads about 15 inch holes and such to get people on the course and then in other threads people being condescending toward fun leagues that want to play OB as a lateral hazard. Probably because nobody was having much fun watching people also hit their provisional OB and damn sure not having any fun watching people making the walk back to the tee box because they didn't find any of them.

Playing by the Rules of Golf doesn't mean you can't have fun playing golf. I've had fun playing by the rules and I'm sure I would have fun playing a round with 15 inch holes. I also don't think anyone was condescending, maybe Phil but I don't feel like going back and re-reading his post, they were just offering a potential solution.

[garybbq]

Playing by the Rules of Golf doesn't mean you can't have fun playing golf. I've had fun playing by the rules and I'm sure I would have fun playing a round with 15 inch holes. I also don't think anyone was condescending, maybe Phil but I don't feel like going back and re-reading his post, they were just offering a potential solution.

In certain cases yes it does, your average 100 shooter when paired up with a scratch player is going to be very nervous. Now if you make him play by strict rules, not allowed to pick up, hitting a few off each T etc. etc. he is going to feel all eyes are on him and he is holding things up, which may or may not be true.