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How to address a cheat (or call him out)


Elmer
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I understand where this idea comes from that I am a "cheat" because I play by league rules, while playing in league events (which once again does not factor into my "non" league handicap).

However that is the only time I play like that, under those rules.

It is the same as playing in a scramble, shamble or any other NON PGA format. League play is League play and different from any other round of golf. But people can still cheat while playing league play.

You play in a league, you play by the rules that the league members have voted on or instituted.

However when I am on a course, I play by the rules of golf.

The individual from the OP DOES NOT! He plays by the rules that best enable him to put down the best score on a piece of paper. He plays this way, under league play and not league play.

I dont understand how to make this point any more clear.

But please continue to point out how I am no better than any other cheater. Thank you!

"What bothers me is when you play your game that way and boast a score that is not correct."

There used to be another individual who would play 10 mulligans, not count lost balls, 10 "do-overs" (which some how is not the same as a mulligan, since he made a point that he was a Vet, who busted his knees in Vietnam, so he gets "do-overs")

After shooting about a 110, he would look at me and tell me he beat me by shooting an 85, all from the front tees.

My point was if you want to tell yourself you shot "what ever" score, so be it. But don't tell me you won a Pulitzer when you didn't!

To be fair, lower handicap players tend to be better at playing by the rules. Generally, they are more experienced, but it is skill that really makes the difference.

I was playing with three other golfers, one of them being a beginning woman who has a really good swing. However, her game was limited by two things distance and putting. It took her 4 strokes to get to every green, and another 4 putts/chips to get in. When she got into a ditch and asked if she could place her second ball on the fairway, I just said "Yes!". Okay, so I told her to cheat. On the other hand for her to hit out of the rough along the ditch probably would have cost her another two balls.

I have a playing partner that plays off 18-20, and he sometimes hits behind fences. This costs him a lot more strokes than it does the lower handicaps in our group. So, we let him take relief wherever he feels is appropriate.

So, if you are a 40 handicap, I would not expect you to play by any rules, really. If you play to a 20, I would not force you to play exactly by the rules, but maybe a little bit closer. If you are a 13 handicap, you might still not know every rule (just excusing myself at this point).

I expect that any single digit player would know and play by the rules pretty well. This is because they have the skill and distance to recover from a really bad situation and not make it worse.

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My expectations are based on two things, competition versus non-competition.

If I am playing a casual round. Even if my round is by USGA rules. If the other person wants to be liberal with the rules, that is ok. If they are having fun, then have at it. On a casual round, I rather have someone enjoy their time on the golf course than not.

If I am competing, I expect the opponent to play by the exact same rules as I do.

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To be fair, lower handicap players tend to be better at playing by the rules. Generally, they are more experienced, but it is skill that really makes the difference.

I was playing with three other golfers, one of them being a beginning woman who has a really good swing. However, her game was limited by two things distance and putting. It took her 4 strokes to get to every green, and another 4 putts/chips to get in. When she got into a ditch and asked if she could place her second ball on the fairway, I just said "Yes!". Okay, so I told her to cheat. On the other hand for her to hit out of the rough along the ditch probably would have cost her another two balls.

I have a playing partner that plays off 18-20, and he sometimes hits behind fences. This costs him a lot more strokes than it does the lower handicaps in our group. So, we let him take relief wherever he feels is appropriate.

So, if you are a 40 handicap, I would not expect you to play by any rules, really. If you play to a 20, I would not force you to play exactly by the rules, but maybe a little bit closer. If you are a 13 handicap, you might still not know every rule (just excusing myself at this point).

I expect that any single digit player would know and play by the rules pretty well. This is because they have the skill and distance to recover from a really bad situation and not make it worse.

I hope this is not your position while playing in competition.

Bill M

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I would just make sure the current league executives know what is going on and let them take care of it. And they will if they really want it taken care of. Explain why you would rather not have to execute the executive order yourself and let them go with it. If it's obvious to those involved and since you aren't the only one affected you can plead the case to each of them individually and if they really want things to be on the level they should not have a problem doing it.

This is almost enough for an entire golf novel.

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I hope this is not your position while playing in competition.

I am hoping that the tournament officials will pair him up with a low handicap to score for him.

I would just make sure the current league executives know what is going on and let them take care of it. And they will if they really want it taken care of. Explain why you would rather not have to execute the executive order yourself and let them go with it. If it's obvious to those involved and since you aren't the only one affected you can plead the case to each of them individually and if they really want things to be on the level they should not have a problem doing it.

This is almost enough for an entire golf novel.

And a father-son relationship self help book.

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TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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  • 5 months later...

just to finally bring this to a close. While I addressed his actions to him within my playing group,. I did accidently out him to some fellow golfers.

People are always raving about his short game , which is very good. However it gets tiresome having to listen to people drone on and one about how I should take a lesson from him and learn his short game.

I the fed up response went something like "you should take a lesson from your old man on his short game"- Golfer

"Only if he takes a lesson from me on how to write the correct score"- me

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  • 2 months later...

Mid year club tournament is approaching. I notified 2 of the guys who play in my group each year, that I will be calling all of the cheater's rule breaking.

The response I got was "good luck".

I am flabbergasted that these people know and condone the behavior and make no effort to stop it.

Next year I will find a new playing group!

In my Grom:

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Irons- Callaway Big Berthas 5i - GW Wedges- Titles Volkey  Putter- Odyssey protype #9
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Just tell him that there have been complaints of hisnot being totally honest and you have a solution. You keep score and get him a sharpie and get a mold with his initials as a gift and a box of balls pre marked to take the sting off. Make it seem like it's coming from other people as well. "This way Dad nobody can accuse you of cheating.
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Some one must have said something to him, because on the first tee he handed me the score card for the 4some and declared "you keep score".

Once we got off the tee and off the tee to our second shots he asked "how serious are we playing"?

I got him to admit to atleast 2 double boggies.

On other holes I wrote down his boggie when he told me a par or when he said nothing I knew it was a boggie.

He ended up 11 over, which is legit, he had a great string of pars on the back.

I tried to give him a little perspective at the clubhouse when he was barking he had a lousy round. One of our better golfers, 6 handicap shot a 94, which was 1 stroke worse than I did.

In my Grom:

Driver-Taylormade 10.5 Woods- Taylomade 3 wood, taylormade 4 Hybrid
Irons- Callaway Big Berthas 5i - GW Wedges- Titles Volkey  Putter- Odyssey protype #9
Ball- Bridgestone E6
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I haven't read all 7 pages of this, but the general gist of it seemed to be a problem about cheating when the OP was playing friendly rounds with his father, not issues of cheating in tournaments.

I have had similar experiences when playing with friends (not, I am pleased to say, when playing with my Dad, who is as honest as the day is long).

The easiest solution, I find, is to just play matchplay. When you are playing against the other player, even in a friendly match, the cheater's claim that the first drive he sliced into the lake doesn't count as he starts teeing up another ball, will no longer wash. Matchplay, my friend. No mulligans. So it's three off the tee for you, right?

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I haven't read all 7 pages of this, but the general gist of it seemed to be a problem about cheating when the OP was playing friendly rounds with his father, not issues of cheating in tournaments.

I have had similar experiences when playing with friends (not, I am pleased to say, when playing with my Dad, who is as honest as the day is long).

The easiest solution, I find, is to just play matchplay. When you are playing against the other player, even in a friendly match, the cheater's claim that the first drive he sliced into the lake doesn't count as he starts teeing up another ball, will no longer wash. Matchplay, my friend. No mulligans. So it's three off the tee for you, right?

Just the opposite or maybe not. He cheats in both casual rounds and league tournaments. He plays 2 to 3 times a weeks with the same bunch of guys. They dont gamble, they dont compete, they just drink, knock the ball around and announce what ever score they want to give themselves. When i play with these guys which is rarely these days, I keep my own card in my pocket and I dont announce my score. I am out there playing for me and trying to have the best round possible. Therefore if someone wants to duff it 10 times and yell par, it is no money out of my pocket.

I would love to play some side bets and have some fun, but there guys never learned to play this way. They have always approached golf as an activity which they have paid money to play, therefore they are not going to spend the time playing a lie they dont want or out of a bunker.

If it frustrating.

Then again some of these guys think they are better than they are, since they have been giving themselves what ever score they choose.

I think more people are on to them than they realize.

Actually 2 of them at my tournament declared they were taking mulligans and I just wrote the real score, no need to call them out.

I duffed a drive into the woods and tee'd up again. They told me to take a mulligan and I told them I was hitting a provisional in case I cant find my lost drive (which I didnt)

The problem is some of these same guys are in the league and they consider a league outing as an extension for their weekday rounds. They tell me to lighten up and this is not the PGA.

I am all for casual rounds when there is money or prizes involved.

But when your cheating takes a prize away from someone who had a legit good round, that is wrong.

I have no problem complimenting you for a good hole or a good round. I dont want to enable or condone cheating.

In my Grom:

Driver-Taylormade 10.5 Woods- Taylomade 3 wood, taylormade 4 Hybrid
Irons- Callaway Big Berthas 5i - GW Wedges- Titles Volkey  Putter- Odyssey protype #9
Ball- Bridgestone E6
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Elmer, do you cut some slack when playing father and son round on Father's day?

If it is just me and him, We ride in the same cart but keep separate cards.

He plays the game he wants and writes down par, I keep my own card and play the ball as it lies.

Like I said if we are not playing for anything he can play anyway he wants.

But when we are out competing in a field of 40 guys he is cheating against me and others.

Worst of all when I know he has cheated and gotten away with it and won prizes, I sit at the bar and listen to streams of golfers tell me how good of a golfer he is, or how I should take a lesson from him.

And I have to play along.

In my Grom:

Driver-Taylormade 10.5 Woods- Taylomade 3 wood, taylormade 4 Hybrid
Irons- Callaway Big Berthas 5i - GW Wedges- Titles Volkey  Putter- Odyssey protype #9
Ball- Bridgestone E6
All grips Golf Pride

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The part that i've struggled the most with is probably the business about OB. There have been a bunch of times that I've hit balls that turn out OB, but the idea of marching back to the tee is out of the question.

If it is just me and him, We ride in the same cart but keep separate cards.

He plays the game he wants and writes down par, I keep my own card and play the ball as it lies.

Like I said if we are not playing for anything he can play anyway he wants.

But when we are out competing in a field of 40 guys he is cheating against me and others.

Worst of all when I know he has cheated and gotten away with it and won prizes, I sit at the bar and listen to streams of golfers tell me how good of a golfer he is, or how I should take a lesson from him.

And I have to play along.

Yeah. Exactly this.

My lot doesn't play for money, but I get to hear about how great a golfer one particular chap is. The fella usually takes three or four mulligans per round, drops balls where he wants and I don't recall a penalty ever showing up on his scorecard.

He's better than I am, but not that much better. The problem often is that this sort of stuff gets me angry enough that I'm not playing my best.

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Note: This thread is 3201 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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