Setup, Grip, and Making the Swing "Automatic"

[whatwoodtigerdo]

I am not a pro and don't really care about the squabble or anything but grip and setup doesn't matter now? I bet there are thousands upon thousands of pga professionals that would eat anybody's lunch who insinuates that. Or are we supposed to believe that Jim furyk and Dustin Johnson both hit the ball well with very different swings because they meet 5 requirements but not believe that a weak and strong grip both share fundamentals that make it sound. I will agree $1k sounds like milking it way too much but it's definitely worth a couple of lessons for a beginner or someone who is doing it wrong.

[TXHusker]

[QUOTE name="whatwoodtigerdo" url="/t/77551/setup-grip-and-making-the-swing-automatic/36#post_1064049"] I am not a pro and don't really care about the squabble or anything but grip and setup doesn't matter now? I bet there are thousands upon thousands of pga professionals that would eat anybody's lunch who insinuates that. Or are we supposed to believe that Jim furyk and Dustin Johnson both hit the ball well with very different swings because they meet 5 requirements but not believe that a weak and strong grip both share fundamentals that make it sound. I will agree $1k sounds like milking it way too much but it's definitely worth a couple of lessons for a beginner or someone who is doing it wrong.[/QUOTE] I'll be surprised if your post (or mine for that matter) are still on this board in 10 minutes.

[iacas]

I'll be surprised if your post (or mine for that matter) are still on this board in 10 minutes.

Surprise. Nobody is saying that the grip and set up are completely unimportant, just that there are many many things that are more important. We are also saying that there is no one grip and no one set up that applies to everyone.

[TXHusker]

Surprise.

it's only been 2 minutes.

[iacas]

it's only been 2 minutes.   :dance:

As a general rule, we don't like posts that don't add to or further the discussion. This is an example of such.

[TXHusker]

As a general rule, we don't like posts that don't add to or further the discussion.

This is an example of such.

It's a little early yet, but as a general rule, I don't think you like any posts that are opposed to your system. Nor any posts that call you out for your boorishness.

[iacas]

It's a little early yet, but as a general rule, I don't think you like any posts that are opposed to your system. Nor any posts that call you out for your boorishness.:bugout:

I quite like discussing things that disagree with what I believe. Great opportunities to learn. I do tend to dislike things that are one-size-fits-all. And seriously, enough with the name-calling and the posts which contribute nothing or which are off-topic.

[TXHusker]

[QUOTE name="iacas" url="/t/77551/setup-grip-and-making-the-swing-automatic/36#post_1064055"] I quite like discussing things that disagree with what I believe. Great opportunities to learn. I do tend to dislike things that are one-size-fits-all.[/QUOTE] I believe I responded to all of the questions thus far, as well as posted a couple of video clips that might be better at explaining...

[mvmac]

I am not a pro and don't really care about the squabble or anything but grip and setup doesn't matter now? I bet there are thousands upon thousands of pga professionals that would eat anybody's lunch who insinuates that. Or are we supposed to believe that Jim furyk and Dustin Johnson both hit the ball well with very different swings because they meet 5 requirements but not believe that a weak and strong grip both share fundamentals that make it sound.

No one said the grip/set-up was unimportant, we have two popular threads on the site on posture and grip. We are responding to the thinking that having a certain grip/set-up makes the golf swing automatic. There is no "model" grip/set-up that all pros use that allows them to strike it solid most of the time.

Also the grip is part of Key #5.

[TXHusker]

No one said the grip/set-up was unimportant, we have two popular threads on the site on posture and grip. We are responding to the thinking that having a certain grip/set-up makes the golf swing automatic. There is no "model" grip/set-up that all pros use that allows them to swing the club to strike it solid most of the time.

Also the grip is part of Key #5.

First of all, I never intimated that there is a one-size-fits-all grip or set-up, only that good fundamentals in these areas were important.  Certainly, those two factors are critical in determining whether a successful, repeating golf swing can be made.  I have no deal about any key #5.

Many golf swing issues can be traced back to the before and beginning of the swing.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

It's a little early yet, but as a general rule, I don't think you like any posts that are opposed to your system.

I am not touching on your originally post as far as what grip is important because as far as I saw you didn't really post the actual grip just that it's really important. Which I agree with. As I stated earlier my first lesson was only on the grip and had me hitting better right away and set the fundamentals to make my swing much better. As to the open set up? In a perfect scenario I would like mine to be as square as can be and let my aim and swing path take care of the rest. But after dealing with my wife aiming right and being closed and swinging\pulling to the target I would prefer her to be open as opposed to what she is doing. But to be honest you post like that seems like you want to be a victim. Like you want them to ban you or something. Wouldn't it be more prudent to just explain what you mean and move on. Clearly you haven't looked at the 5 keys cause it doesn't talk grip or setup so it's impossible that this oposses that system.(sorry I stand corrected key number 5 apparently talks about the grip but I haven't seen it. I don't have the videos just what I have seen here)

[trickyputt]

So would the width of swing offered by a left shoulder be more suited to the shorter player? The Merry Mex, Gary Player (mentioned in the vid) and Carl Lohren all seem vertically challenged. I am not.

[TXHusker]

I am not touching on your originally post as far as what grip is important because as far as I saw you didn't really post the actual grip just that it's really important. Which I agree with. As I stated earlier my first lesson was only on the grip and had me hitting better right away and set the fundamentals to make my swing much better. As to the open set up? In a perfect scenario I would like mine to be as square as can be and let my aim and swing path take care of the rest. But after dealing with my wife aiming right and being closed and swinging\pulling to the target I would prefer her to be open as opposed to what she is doing.

But to be honest you post like that seems like you want to be a victim. Like you want them to ban you or something. Wouldn't it be more prudent to just explain what you mean and move on. Clearly you haven't looked at the 5 keys cause it doesn't talk grip or setup so it's impossible that this oposses that system.(sorry I stand corrected key number 5 apparently talks about the grip but I haven't seen it. I don't have the videos just what I have seen here)

I will see if I can find some decent diagrams of the grip fundamentals I am referring to.   I did post a video clip to help explain the "open shoulders" thing.

I'm no victim - I just stumbled onto this board and it looked like there was a lot of good discussion on the golf swing.  I was just giving my experience with a particular pro.    I didn't realize that there was a 5 Keys bias - that's my fault.  I just thought it was an open golf forum.

I am not concerned about being banned on an internet forum.   My life isn't going to change one way or another.

[iacas]

Clearly you haven't looked at the 5 keys cause it doesn't talk grip or setup so it's impossible that this oposses that system.(sorry I stand corrected key number 5 apparently talks about the grip but I haven't seen it. I don't have the videos just what I have seen here)

Key #5 is Clubface Control, a part of which is having a grip allows you to return the clubface to the necessary angle at impact. Key #3 also ties into the grip. #4 can too. Several of the keys also rely on certain set up elements, but they vary a bit from person to person. There is no one set up or one grip for all. As Mike pointed out, we have two lengthy threads on these two particular topics.

[TXHusker]

So would the width of swing offered by a left shoulder be more suited to the shorter player? The Merry Mex, Gary Player (mentioned in the vid) and Carl Lohren all seem vertically challenged. I am not.

Good question.  Certainly by allowing the left shoulder to dictate the backswing motion, the player is giving himself the widest swing arc possible, regardless of his height.

[iacas]

Good question.  Certainly by allowing the left shoulder to dictate the backswing motion, the player is giving himself the widest swing arc possible, regardless of his height.

Elaborate please. TGM proponents might counter with extensor action. Someone else might point out that you can move the left shoulder perfectly but still bend your left arm at the elbow. One of the sayings we have here is that "feel ain't real." It means that a feeling that works for one person may fail completely with another. Some students need to feel completely opposite things to produce the same mechanics. I disagree that the golf swing is a "natural" thing for almost anyone.

[mvmac]

Several of the keys also rely on certain set up elements, but they vary a bit from person to person. There is no one set up or one grip for all.

Yes the set-up can tie into elements of every Key.

[Golfingdad]

It's a little early yet, but as a general rule, I don't think you like any posts that are opposed to your system. Nor any posts that call you out for your boorishness.

For me it's not at all early (been here over 2 years and more posts than anybody ;)), so I can tell you without a doubt that you have it completely backwards in regards to Erik and Mike.  They have no problem whatsoever with posts that disagree with them.  They ENCOURAGE people to prove their ideas wrong, because that's how you learn.

In fact, if you go back and read Erik's first post again - and do it fairly - you'll see that all he does is state his opinion and ask a few questions.  I can assure you that he does this without the least bit of irony or condescension.  You posted your opinions on the grip and the left shoulder, and then he posted his.  No difference?

Stick around here awhile and you'll see that we're just a bunch of guys (sadly, not too many ladies here :() that love golf and love to talk about it.  We all agree on some things and disagree on some things, but we're all decent guys.

So .... welcome!!