Single digits...how to get there

[inthehole]

Distance is more important than accuracy. 250 yards and in the rough is way better than 230 yards and in the fairway.

Not a chance man ... assuming you had my swing speed and play from 6000 yd tees.   Would you rather a 7i out of the rough than a 5i off the fairway ??   Sign me up for the 5i every day & twice on sunday ...

edit ... I guess it depends on your definition of "rough" - a light rough with a cushy lie, sure I'd take the 7i ... but for the rough on courses I play most often, rough is to be avoided.

[cipher]

Not a chance man ... assuming you had my swing speed and play from 6000 yd tees.   Would you rather a 7i out of the rough than a 5i off the fairway ??   Sign me up for the 5i every day & twice on sunday ... edit ... I guess it depends on your definition of "rough" - a light rough with a cushy lie, sure I'd take the 7i ... but for the rough on courses I play most often, rough is to be avoided.

@saevel25 is right on. I play much of the year in some fairly thick rough. I would still take the seven iron and always do. The only time I back off is when I am completely forced to through the shading(LSW) covering an area that costs too many strokes.

[MS256]

I agree that it's all about how bad the rough is but even so you have to figure that you are not always going to be in the rough. Even in fairly penal rough to always play it safe is probably taking away more good birdie chances (when the fairway is hit) than it is saving bogies (when the fairway is missed). Where I draw the line and try to stay in the fairway at all costs is if the rough is such that I am very likely to lose a golf ball in it. Absent that and I'm probably going to get as much distance as I can and take my chances.

[inthehole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthehole

Not a chance man ... assuming you had my swing speed and play from 6000 yd tees.   Would you rather a 7i out of the rough than a 5i off the fairway ??   Sign me up for the 5i every day & twice on sunday ...

edit ... I guess it depends on your definition of "rough" - a light rough with a cushy lie, sure I'd take the 7i ... but for the rough on courses I play most often, rough is to be avoided.

@saevel25 is right on. I play much of the year in some fairly thick rough. I would still take the seven iron and always do. The only time I back off is when I am completely forced to through the shading(LSW) covering an area that costs too many strokes.

OK, as a 3.6, you've obviously developed the shot from the heavy rough and are confident with it.   You must admit its a fairly technical shot - assuming you have to change your swing and come down more steeply, a bit more aggressively and make perfect contact - there's just very little room for error - my distance is so erratic.      Thinking more about this ... most single hcp's probably have this shot in their bag, where most double digits struggle with the deep rough and play more conservatively to try to avoid it

[Abu3baid]

I will take the shot in the fairway anytime. When I get off the fairway it means I have a lie with grass in the way. I probably have to hit under a tree to go at the green and now a trap is in my way. If I do get it out low it goes in the trap or if i clear the trap I can't hold the green. I used to hit my driver every hole and then wedge it out of trouble to try and get on and I was a bogey golfer. Reading LSW actually has caused me to play irons off the tee way more often.

I think you have to differentiate between being under a tree with a trap in your way and having to hit it low, and the deference between being out 175 yards from the green in the fairway or 135 yards away but in the rough (not near the woods under a tree)..

Obviously if you are going to be hitting it into the trees then you have a lot more to worry about than the difference between the rough and fairway.  There is no way LSW should be an inspiration to play irons of the tee more often, in fact Erik and Dave basically encourage people to understand their shot zones (described in LSW) and then on that basis playing the shot that will most likely not get you into trouble (i.e. not under the trees).  I think we all agree that being in the rough is not the same as being under a tree or behind one!

Being an 8 I am sure you are hitting the ball pretty decently, and the shorter approach shots for you will start resulting in more GIRs and better birdi/par opportunities..

No way. An 8,9 or wedge out of the rough is going to still be a much higher percentage shot than a 5 or 6 iron out of the fairway (assuming you hit an iron off the tee). I would play from the rough all day if that was my option.

Exactly!

[mvmac]

edit ... I guess it depends on your definition of "rough" - a light rough with a cushy lie, sure I'd take the 7i ... but for the rough on courses I play most often, rough is to be avoided.

Most golfers play courses where the rough isn't that severe, some golfers even prefer the extra "cushion".

[Zesty]

I will take the shot in the fairway anytime. When I get off the fairway it means I have a lie with grass in the way. I probably have to hit under a tree to go at the green and now a trap is in my way. If I do get it out low it goes in the trap or if i clear the trap I can't hold the green. I used to hit my driver every hole and then wedge it out of trouble to try and get on and I was a bogey golfer. Reading LSW actually has caused me to play irons off the tee way more often.

[9424tm]

I will take the shot in the fairway anytime. When I get off the fairway it means I have a lie with grass in the way. I probably have to hit under a tree to go at the green and now a trap is in my way. If I do get it out low it goes in the trap or if i clear the trap I can't hold the green. I used to hit my driver every hole and then wedge it out of trouble to try and get on and I was a bogey golfer. Reading LSW actually has caused me to play irons off the tee way more often.

No way. An 8,9 or wedge out of the rough is going to still be a much higher percentage shot than a 5 or 6 iron out of the fairway (assuming you hit an iron off the tee). I would play from the rough all day if that was my option.

[cipher]

OK, as a 3.6, you've obviously developed the shot from the heavy rough and are confident with it.   You must admit its a fairly technical shot - assuming you have to change your swing and come down more steeply, a bit more aggressively and make perfect contact - there's just very little room for error - my distance is so erratic.      Thinking more about this ... most single hcp's probably have this shot in their bag, where most double digits struggle with the deep rough and play more conservatively to try to avoid it

If you do have to play in some thick stuff try this. Instead of getting tense in the grip like most people would to get ready to swing down on the ball with force. Take your normal grip, maybe even relax it a bit. Then when you swing you try to hit the ball at the very bottom of your swing or try and pick it basically without feeling the need to swing any harder. The rough is so thick on my morning course that I pretty much can't do this past a 7 or 6 iron. It does work pretty well for anything 7 iron to SW. I would not say it is all that technical is it just something that double digits think they have to change something huge in the swing usually making the result worse.

[MS256]

Most golfers play courses where the rough isn't that severe, some golfers even prefer the extra "cushion".

The "fairways" where I play are as long as "rough" at some courses (and much thicker).

I get some frowns when I mention that I would much prefer closely mowed fairways because most of the guys like it as it is. They actually complain about the "thin lies" at other courses.

The thinner the better for me. I have much better distance control from thin lies.

[billchao]

I get some frowns when I mention that I would much prefer closely mowed fairways because most of the guys like it as it is. They actually complain about the "thin lies" at other courses. The thinner the better for me. I have much better distance control from thin lies.

I'm the same as you. A lot of people flip at the ball, so tight lies actually decrease their chance to strike the ball well. I remember being at a PGA Tour event with some people and they commented on how tightly mowed the fairways were. They said they wouldn't be able to hit well off of them. I told them I would love it if the courses I played regularly were maintained like that. The cleaner the lie, the less variables I have to worry about, which increases my chance at hitting the ball well.

[Zesty]

I play irons more often because of my shot zones. On the courses I play there are a lot of shorter par fours with dog legs. I used to hit driver no matter what and try to shortcut over the trees onto impossibly small landing areas because that was the glory shot. Now I look to see where my shot zone is for each club that has the least trouble and that has led me to not hit Driver every time like I used to.

[David in FL]

Totally incorrect. Not only can you reach single digits with one or two doubles, you can get all the way down to the 5's. ;). Don't want to take my word it? Ask @David in FL ... If I had a nickel for everytime he's posted "today I shot 78 with two birdies and a silly double" ...

• 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

[inthehole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthehole

OK, as a 3.6, you've obviously developed the shot from the heavy rough and are confident with it.   You must admit its a fairly technical shot - assuming you have to change your swing and come down more steeply, a bit more aggressively and make perfect contact - there's just very little room for error - my distance is so erratic.      Thinking more about this ... most single hcp's probably have this shot in their bag, where most double digits struggle with the deep rough and play more conservatively to try to avoid it

If you do have to play in some thick stuff try this. Instead of getting tense in the grip like most people would to get ready to swing down on the ball with force. Take your normal grip, maybe even relax it a bit. Then when you swing you try to hit the ball at the very bottom of your swing or try and pick it basically without feeling the need to swing any harder. The rough is so thick on my morning course that I pretty much can't do this past a 7 or 6 iron. It does work pretty well for anything 7 iron to SW. I would not say it is all that technical is it just something that double digits think they have to change something huge in the swing usually making the result worse.

Thanks next time I find myself in the deep stuff, I'll think about your post and try it ....

[mvmac]

Thanks next time I find myself in the deep stuff, I'll think about your post and try it ....

I like what @cipher said. You really shouldn't change your swing out of the rough. Trying to get more "steep" can launch the ball lower, makes it harder to get out of the rough.

Another "tip" I can add is to aim the face a little more right to help the ball launch high enough and on the start line you want.

[Lihu]

Just read through this entire thread again. I have a totally different perspective on things since 4 months ago, and understand a bit more. . .really interesting. . .

[Yukari]

By practicing my long game so that my full swing became more consistent.  I don't care what anyone else says or has experience, but for me, the first thing I did was get my full swing to be repeatable.  After that it was only a matter of time before the score dropped.

Two things improved drastically once my long game was more consistent: minimized penalty shots (this was probably the biggest factor) and got it closer to green, if not GIR, on approaches.  Made my chip and put a lot easier having a shorter misses to the green.

Once I got to HC of about 10-14 range, then I worked on my short game.  But I always practiced mostly the full swing (i.e., long game) and maybe spent only ~25 percent on the short game, e.g., chipping and putting.

[cedrictheo]

I went from a 20 to an 8 in 9 months. Basically I drilled my full swing mechanics hard all year (2 hours a day average). If I was telling myself what to do looking back it would be to pick a swing theory, get an instructor who subscribes to that theory, and go see him every 2-4 weeks and practice only what he tells you for 30min to an hour each day. Spend the rest of your time playing. I did way too much "searching" for the magic fix or trying to figure out which swing theory is optimal. (I settled on the centered pivot which is taught by most 5SK guys). Also spent way to much time trying to figure it out on my own. A good instructor can save you so much time. My 2 cents