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Do Slow Players Know They're Slow?


mvmac
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  1. 1. Do You Think Slow Players Know They're Slow?

    • Yes, they know but don't care.
      16
    • No, they think their pace is faster than it actually is.
      42
    • They aren't aware that a round of golf should be less than 6 hours ;-)
      9


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I did not vote because I could not agree with any of the choices. "They are not slow, but playing at their own pace of play" should have been added to the list. No big deal, just an opinion

I honestly don't think most players, who are considered slow by others, play slow on purpose. I think most of them go out and play at their own pace of play. Since they are playing at their own pace, and someone who plays faster says something to them, this is why they take it personal.

Not everyone is going to play at the same speed of play. Some will be faster, and some will be slower. That's just the way it is, and it will never change.

I read on another forum some where that a course manager decided to tackle slow play. He decided that he would not allow more than 54 groups on his course at any one time. He figured one group on the tee box, one group in the fairway, and one group on the green, on each hole was the way to go. He instructed his starter to not let a group on the #1 tee box until another group was walking off the 18th green. Although this seem to work on the course, it ultimately did not work because of the back up of groups waiting to tee off at #1. He received too many complaints  from those waiting to tee off on #1. Now, in my own experience,  there have been several times I have had a long wait on #1, only to find once on the course, everyone moved along quite easily.

Just for the record I don't believe slow play is the  biggest reason associated with the slowing of the game today. It's the high dollar up front costs, and continued costs that tend to keep people a way.  I say this because back before the last depression hit, golf was a money making cash cow. Tiger Woods was getting accolades for growing the sport. Everyone associated with golf was making money. Even an $8 an hour worker had money to golf because everything else cost less. I honestly don't remember slow play being a topic of any interest during those high revenue years. In today's economic climate, there are just a lot of folks who do not have a fat enough wallet to play the game. Everything cost more today than it did 10 years ago. Loss of revenue is closing some courses, and increasing green fees on others. Hypothetically speaking, where there might have been 10 courses for the golfing masses to use, there might now only be 7. With the closure of 1/3 of the courses available, those folks  who lost their home courses now had to gravitate to the remaining 7 courses which probably over crowded those courses, which brought more slow play complaints. Increased use mean more maintenance which requires more revenue, which again goes back to one's wallet.

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Slow players just don't know how to play ready golf.  They're not getting ready to hit their shot while waiting for someone else to hit.  You should have your club out and should be taking practice swings even as the other guy is hitting.  It doesn't occur to them to think about their own shot when waiting for their partner to hit.

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IMHO there are all sorts of slow players.  Some are totally oblivious that they are slow and hate the group behind them for "pushing them."  These are the one that generally have not played much golf or play golf rarely.  They are typically not your usual die hards.  They hit two or three tee shots even when the group behind them are waiting near the tee box (I had that happen last week.).  They also typically hit 5+ shots to get on the green, often topping, dribbling, shanking their way around the course.

Then there are good and/or regular players that are slow because they see the pros look and line up every putt and they have to do the same.  These people typically don't care about the others behind them.  I might even go as far as say they are arrogant SOBs.

Then there are those who are limited physically.

Of these, I think the worst is the good and/or regular players that are slow because they know better but don't care.

Don

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Title basically says it all.

Few scenarios come to mind:

- Do you think slow golfers know they are slow or do they delude themselves into thinking they are medium paced?

- Maybe for some their whole group is slow so they don't think much of it but they must realize it takes them 5+ hours to play.

- T hey know they're slow and just don't care. They paid good money to play and they're going to get their money's worth.

- Are they ignorant to the fact that there is something like a pace of play?

From my experience slow golfers don't actually know they're slow and they'll obviously take it personally it they're "called out". They might concede that at times they're slow but not most the time. They'll also argue that if they really needed to pick up the pace, they could. I consider myself a medium-paced player, maybe medium-fast, correct me if I'm wrong @iacas , @tristanhilton85 , @Golfingdad ;-)

When I see a slow group I think it's partially an education problem. They don't really understand ready golf. As a group they go to every player's ball and watch the guy play. The players don't "scatter" and go to their own balls, get their yardages, select their club and prepare to play their shot.

Interesting article from an anonymous tour player

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2014-10/undercover-tour-pro-slowplay

Quote:

Everyone knows who they are. Guys will say stuff at the range or at lunch. I've confronted slow players before. I've said, "Hey, man, when do you think about picking it up?"

"Not until I get put on the clock," is the consensus answer.

Quote:
Padraig Harrington is a slow player, but he's won three more majors than me. Ben Crane is slow, but he knows it and walks fast. Same with Luke Guthrie. Kevin Na has gotten a lot quicker to pull the trigger. If a guy wants more time to read a putt or has a mental issue, that's cool. What bothers me are slow players who think they're medium-paced and aren't ready to hit when it's their turn. These guys are cheaters.

Honestly I can't really answer the poll because there is more than one answer.  Some players are oblivious, some don't realize that there are procedures that could help them play faster without feeling rushed, and some others just don't care.  I think that most players would be willing to buy into a faster pace if they knew that it could be done without significantly changing how they play.  I think that for most players it just comes down to eliminating wasted time and making a better decision on when they start their routine, not changing the actual routine.

Rick

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I have played with two types of slow players. Complete hackers who take a lot of mulligans or won't take a mulligan when they should and players who just don't have any feeling at all that they could be moving along while having a conversation, or whatever. I played with a couple of younger guys like this and I was just astonished. I don't like to be rushed, but come on, it is a public course!

I know there is a guy here with the handle "no mulligans" but isn't it better to tee it up again than to walk 15 yards and try to hit it off the deck with a three wood from the rough where you were originally hitting driver?  It seems to me that taking mulligans with a thought towards keeping up the pace is better (providing no competition involved) If you are taking a mulligan while people are waiting because you missed the green a little from 75 yards, that is another matter entirely, you should probably just be taken aside, shot, and buried in the woods, in that case. JK/LOL!

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I voted #2 and you can see it all over this forum. Every single golfer here hates slow play but apparently, there's not a single golfer here who plays slow. ;-)

Well, I was the slow player on Sunday. Actually we weren't slow, my fourball took under four hours to finish the round, but the twoball behind us were exceptional players - they're on the local University team - who hit the ball a mile and don't miss much. There was no point in letting them play through because there was a queue of other groups in front of us. So, we weren't "slow", but I'll bet it seemed that way to the two young guys who were waiting on nearly every shot. Everything is relative; and I'm betting they're used to it.

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.

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The slowest golfers in our gang takes offense when called out on the pace of play.  The slow pace IMO evolves around a time consuming routine on every shot, unwillingness to play ready golf, and most annoying, taking  to much time to read putts on a course that we have been playing for years.

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Well, I was the slow player on Sunday. Actually we weren't slow, my fourball took under four hours to finish the round, but the twoball behind us were exceptional players - they're on the local University team - who hit the ball a mile and don't miss much. There was no point in letting them play through because there was a queue of other groups in front of us. So, we weren't "slow", but I'll bet it seemed that way to the two young guys who were waiting on nearly every shot. Everything is relative; and I'm betting they're used to it.


Waiting behind people keeping the pace because the course is busy and getting stuck behind people causing a backup are different things. I can usually get around a slow group eventually if there is some place to go but it may take a few holes. The problem is just a couple of 20 minute holes on each side that should be 10-12 minute holes tacks on 30-40 minutes to a round. That's why I think people don't realize they are slow. It may be just a few bad holes but if they never catch up it creates a jam.

Dave :-)

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When I was learning the game years ago, my friends would hit and take off to find their balls. If you didn't play fast and keep up, they left you behind. I learned to play fast because I liked my friends :-)

I blame Jack Nicklaus for pace of play problems, he started it. A 20 handicapper looking at the putt from all around the hole, checking the midpoint, 5 practice swings, then leaving the 20 footer 4 feet short but "right in the jaws so it was a good putt" is due to watching pros on TV. Until the pros on TV clean up their act (and I know its the tournament grind, so its not gonna change) its only gonna get worse.  FWIW, non-tour pros have, in my experience, played very quickly and are good role models. But slow players aren't observant to copying faster players, they are lost in their own little world. They figure their pace is fine, everyone else is too fast or too slow.

Some guys I play with now (all 15-20 hcp) are poster children for being slow. An average round for us is 5 hours, but we rarely wait on those ahead of us. I enjoy their company, and I've tried to speed them up, but they are just not that open to it. So I enjoy the time spent, the other choice is to not play with them, and I don't want to do that. And they honestly love the game.

One guy takes forever with his pre shot routine, and if you "rush" him he hits a bad shot and goes back to his slower routine.

Another complains about slow play but if he hits a bad shot he throws another ball down and hits it "for practice". Even if the group behind is right on our tails.

Another likes to tell stories. I'm usually the only walker but I'm always first to the tee box (except after birdies, bad karma to hit in front of a birdie unless permission is granted haha). I get ready to hit and he's still talking, I back off and sometimes he stops, sometimes not. Maybe I have to say "can I hit now?" and they will stop talking.

Again, these are my buddies, I like them, I don't want to play with anyone else.

Are these guys aware they are slow, or at least could be a lot faster? Not really, they aren't a whole lot different than others out there, and if they played really fast they'd be waiting all the time anyway.  A deep problem that isn't going away. So if we are noticeably behind I'll say "hey we need to speed it up a little" and we catch up because the group ahead isn't that fast.

Final story. Played Aviara a few years ago, nice, very expensive course in San Diego. A guy I'm paired with is slashing it around, an easy thing at Aviara since its a bear if you hit off line.  So the marshal comes up to us on the 3rd tee, says "if you keep up this pace, it's gonna be 6 hours". Marshal drives off, guy says "6 hours? that's pretty good, right?"  Arrrrgggghhhhhh

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Steve

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My guess is slow players are oblivious. By default the only person on the course who gets to play at his preferred pace is the slowest player.

Identify him. Find his tee time. Get the one before him. See how much fun he finds an 8 hour round as opposed to his normal 6.

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I didn't vote because I believe slow players are slow for a variety of reasons ranging from "don't care" to "don't know" they are slow.  I also suspect some of it due the the skill of the golfer not being matched with the course or tees and resulting slow play.  Finally there isn't a real consensus on just how long a fours some should take to complete a round.  I have read TST posts that cite anything from 2.5 to 5 hours as being acceptable.  One of the problems in trying to fix "slow play" is lack of recognition of the fact that slow players are not a homogeneous group.

Butch

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Most of the slow golfers I see are slow for the same reasons. I don't doubt they know they are slow they just don't do anything to make up lost time. Don't think it's due to being unwilling just that people tend to feel they can do whatever pleases them because they paid to be there. I get the impression the average recreational golfer views going to the course the same way they do going to an amusement park. They aren't there to speed through but they definitely want to have a good time and feel like they are making the most of the fees they paid. That's why you don't see many picking up balls when they have a bad hole or skipping a hole if they fall behind.

Dave :-)

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The slowest golfers in our gang takes offense when called out on the pace of play.  The slow pace IMO evolves around a time consuming routine on every shot, unwillingness to play ready golf, and most annoying, taking  to much time to read putts on a course that we have been playing for years.


I keep seeing "ready golf" mentioned. Outside of getting quickly off the green, prepping for shot with club and practice swings, and not moving in a snail's pace, what are the basics of "ready golf" that we should adhere to?

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Errant shots and ball hunting are the biggest factors. I never find myself waiting behind someone just because they are slow between actually hitting the ball. If there is enough room between people and those ahead most don't waste much time before whacking it. IMO slow golfers are usually ignorant and it starts on the tee. Too far back relative to skill. Errant shots that lead to more bad shots due to being out of position. Wasting time trying to recover with the hopes they can save something.

Dave :-)

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I keep seeing "ready golf" mentioned. Outside of getting quickly off the green, prepping for shot with club and practice swings, and not moving in a snail's pace, what are the basics of "ready golf" that we should adhere to?

Ready golf by my definition is that if your ready to hit, even though your not out, go ahead and hit if nobody else is ready.

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I have played with two types of slow players. Complete hackers who take a lot of mulligans or won't take a mulligan when they should and players who just don't have any feeling at all that they could be moving along while having a conversation, or whatever. I played with a couple of younger guys like this and I was just astonished. I don't like to be rushed, but come on, it is a public course!

I know there is a guy here with the handle "no mulligans" but isn't it better to tee it up again than to walk 15 yards and try to hit it off the deck with a three wood from the rough where you were originally hitting driver?  It seems to me that taking mulligans with a thought towards keeping up the pace is better (providing no competition involved) If you are taking a mulligan while people are waiting because you missed the green a little from 75 yards, that is another matter entirely, you should probably just be taken aside, shot, and buried in the woods, in that case. JK/LOL!

NO!  I just had someone do this to me on Sunday.  Per my usual luck I got out behind a group of 4 with a toddler riding along for the heck of it.  Dude #1 steps up and duck hooks a ball into the adjacent fairway.  I sat there thinking "You better not go for another ball from your bag, scrub!".  And what does he do?  Goes and gets another ball which he sliced into the other adjacent fairway.

I was mad.  And as usual I was stuck behind these people all day.

But the point is... no, do not hit extra balls when people are waiting on you.  Eat your crappy drive and get moving!

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