Why Flaring Your Feet at Address Makes Golf Easier

[mvmac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

I have to disagree with this whole notion.  I think the front foot should be flared but not the back foot.

http://www.mytpi.com/articles/swing/the_position_of_the_right_foot

Well there's also biomechanics experts that agree with this thread

A very common fault for a lot of golfers, especially bogey golfers, is that they slide the hips back instead of turning them on the backswing. Turning the trail foot out makes it easier for golfers to turn their hips, keep them centered and reduces the chance of plantar flexion on the downswing

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

I looked at videos of Rory, Tiger, Adam Scott, Rickie Fowler, and Jordan Spieth.  None of them had their back foot flared.

I did address this in the OP.

Quote:

Also the trail foot being flared isn't a "fundamental" but this set-up piece can definitely simplify your pivot and improve your mechanics. Most pros start playing golf when they are young and hit thousands of balls "grooving" their swing. Most of you reading this thread don't have that luxury. You don't have much free time to practice and you need to make the most of it when you do get out on the range. So make golf a little bit easier and flare those feet out.

Adam Scott and Rory, more flare than you may have perceived.

[pumaAttack]

Umm those are not flared.

[ryan772]

Umm those are not flared.

i would disagree. They are flared much less then 35(like somewhere around 8-12°) but as mvmac said they have been doing it their whole lives. I would bet the longer the club the more they flare their feet.

[mvmac]

Umm those are not flared.

They're not turned out 25-30 degrees but they're certainly not square.

@pumaAttack you can do whatever you want, if you can have a square right foot and turn 90+ degrees while keeping the hips centered, then keep doing it (from the videos on your swing thread you do tend to slide them back). Flaring the trail foot certainly helps me and I've seen hundreds of golfers benefit from this simple set-up adjustment.

[pumaAttack]

They're not turned out 25-30 degrees but they're certainly not square.

@pumaAttack you can do whatever you want, if you can have a square right foot and turn 90+ degrees while keeping the hips centered, then keep doing it (from the videos on your swing thread you do tend to slide them back). Flaring the trail foot certainly helps me and I've seen hundreds of golfers benefit from this simple set-up adjustment.

Sorry I meant to type more of a response than "umm those are not flared."

I meant to say those are not flared nearly as much as you are saying, and the main reason I disagree is because it leaves your rear leg in a less powerful position.  I do think it should be flared a little from 90, but maybe only 10/15 degrees.

What does the added flare give you?  If no pros flare as much as you want people to?

[Righty to Lefty]

This is a very simple and very effective technique.  I manage to screw up my knees and ankles both right and left handed  until I finally said that I was going to flare my feet open enough to where I don't roll on my lead ankle at all and can keep it planted throughout the whole swing.  It was definitely one of the smartest things for my body. At first it felt awkward and I had to make a few adjustments but just like anything else with diligence it has become completely natural.

[mvmac]

What does the added flare give you?  If no pros flare as much as you want people to?

It makes it easier for me to keep my hips centered as I turn them because of the angle that it sets the right knee at. It also keeps my right heel from lifting too early in the downswing because it inhibits the right knee from kicking in on the downswing.

If no pros flare as much as you want people to?

There are pros that flare more than 10-15 degrees.

Charlie Wi, Sam Snead.

Grant Waite, Daniel Summerhays.

Charles Howell, Daniel Im (just won on Euro Challenge Tour)

Jason Gore, Jonathan Byrd.

Bradley Dredge and Robert Rock.

Couple others would be Danny Lee and Chad Collins but don't have videos for them. Here's a video of Danny's swing coach , can see his trail foot.

[pumaAttack]

Interesting, thanks for the response.  In my first evolvr lesson all I was told was to flare my feet and knees more, without any reason as to the benefits.

So, what about my assertion that it leaves your trailing leg in a less powerful position?

[mvmac]

So, what about my assertion that it leaves your trailing leg in a less powerful position?

I don't know what you mean by "less powerful". You still "load" into your right side with it flared.

What's more powerful, the left or the right pic? Restricting your hip turn like most high handicappers do or allowing the trail hip to turn freely like Bubba and Sam Snead?

[pumaAttack]

I don't know what you mean by "less powerful". You still "load" into your right side with it flared.

What's more powerful, the left or the right pic? Restricting your hip turn like most high handicappers do or allowing the trail hip to turn freely like Bubba and Sam Snead?

If you flare your right foot out to the right, the arch lengthens and the inner edge if the foot collapses toward the ground. This is a biomechanical weak position – the arch (and therefore the foot) is no longer providing a great foundation.

[mvmac]

If you flare your right foot out to the right, the arch lengthens and the inner edge if the foot collapses toward the ground. This is a biomechanical weak position – the arch (and therefore the foot) is no longer providing a great foundation.

What foot looks like it has a better "foundation"?

[pumaAttack]

How does foundation translate to power?

I could squat really low and have my legs far apart.  That would be much better foundation than either position you posted.  Is that going to be better for golf?

Quote:

You can prove this to yourself with what I call the “vertical jump test.” Place your feet shoulder-width apart with your feet pointing straight ahead. Now jump straight up in the air. Next, flare your feet out to the sides at, say, a 25-degree angle. Now jump up again. That felt different, didn’t it? With your feet flared out, your arches were longer and weaker – compared to the “straight feet” position the jump felt awkward and weak, right?

Now consider the fact that the foot and the hip have strong interaction – they are like dance partners. If the foot is flared out, the hip joint is externally rotated (opening to the outside). The hip is now in a poor position to be loaded. That’s probably what Ben Hogan instinctively was trying to describe when he said “he has to go on a detour out and around his right hip to get past it.”

[Hatchman]

If I may weigh in please. Don't know what you define as powerful but the flaring of the feet is needed to relieve stress from the knee and help to rotate more efficiently. It takes pressure off the lateral tendons (ITB) when swinging from a perpendicular position like golf, softball, etc. As a double joint replacement patient by a world renowned surgeon who's recommendation was to flare the feet it is correct. Attached is a swing from a current world class player with somewhat similar swing mechanics except note the spine tilt to strike a slightly upward blow as he plants the front foot solidly. My current fault. My power days are long gone with a knee blow out injury after years of abuse. Took up gentlemans game golf instead :-D

[billchao]

How does foundation translate to power?

Good question. I'd love to hear the answer, since you brought it up: [quote name="pumaAttack" url="/t/78207/why-flaring-your-feet-at-address-makes-golf-easier/90#post_1181282"] [COLOR=676E76]If you flare your right foot out to the right, the arch lengthens and the inner edge if the foot collapses toward the ground. This is a biomechanical weak position – the arch (and therefore the foot) is no longer providing a great foundation.[/COLOR] [/quote]I don't buy the collapsing arch theory either. That has more to do with how and where you put pressure on your foot than what orientation it's at in relation to your stance line.

[iacas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

I meant to say those are not flared nearly as much as you are saying, and the main reason I disagree is because it leaves your rear leg in a less powerful position.  I do think it should be flared a little from 90, but maybe only 10/15 degrees.

If you can achieve a good pivot and do some other things while flaring your feet 3°, go for it. I just think it's less likely.

Flaring your trail foot also helps you not kick your knee in toward or "through the wall" on the downswing, btw.

If a PGA Tour player came to me with his foot -2° flared (inward), I might never fix it. Most of the time I probably would, but it's not a certainty. This thread isn't specific to people, it's general advice. MOST people should flare their feet. It makes golf "easier" as the title says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

What does the added flare give you?  If no pros flare as much as you want people to?

This question has been answered, hasn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

If you flare your right foot out to the right, the arch lengthens and the inner edge if the foot collapses toward the ground. This is a biomechanical weak position – the arch (and therefore the foot) is no longer providing a great foundation.

I don't agree. Nor do a bunch of biomechanists.

Quote:

You can prove this to yourself with what I call the “vertical jump test.” Place your feet shoulder-width apart with your feet pointing straight ahead. Now jump straight up in the air. Next, flare your feet out to the sides at, say, a 25-degree angle. Now jump up again. That felt different, didn’t it? With your feet flared out, your arches were longer and weaker – compared to the “straight feet” position the jump felt awkward and weak, right?

That's not the same thing as the motion you make in the golf swing. Your knees want to flex out over your toes. Jumping is different in a golf swing, particularly since your trail foot doesn't contribute much of anything to the entire downswing.

Quote:

Now consider the fact that the foot and the hip have strong interaction – they are like dance partners. If the foot is flared out, the hip joint is externally rotated (opening to the outside). The hip is now in a poor position to be loaded. That’s probably what Ben Hogan instinctively was trying to describe when he said “he has to go on a detour out and around his right hip to get past it.”

And yet Ben Hogan flared his right foot…

[pumaAttack]

If you can achieve a good pivot and do some other things while flaring your feet 3°, go for it. I just think it's less likely.

Flaring your trail foot also helps you not kick your knee in toward or "through the wall" on the downswing, btw.

If a PGA Tour player came to me with his foot -2° flared (inward), I might never fix it. Most of the time I probably would, but it's not a certainty. This thread isn't specific to people, it's general advice. MOST people should flare their feet. It makes golf "easier" as the title says.

This question has been answered, hasn't it?

I don't agree. Nor do a bunch of biomechanists.

That's not the same thing as the motion you make in the golf swing. Your knees want to flex out over your toes. Jumping is different in a golf swing, particularly since your trail foot doesn't contribute much of anything to the entire downswing.

And yet Ben Hogan flared his right foot…

This information should have been provided by your Evolvr instructor.   Blind advice is not a good policy.

Thank you for explaining the why of it.  Please inform your instructors they need to do the same in their analyses.

[mvmac]

How does foundation translate to power?

You can prove this to yourself with what I call the “vertical jump test.” Place your feet shoulder-width apart with your feet pointing straight ahead. Now jump straight up in the air. Next, flare your feet out to the sides at, say, a 25-degree angle. Now jump up again. That felt different, didn’t it? With your feet flared out, your arches were longer and weaker – compared to the “straight feet” position the jump felt awkward and weak, right?

And yet when you squat and deadlift you should have your feet turned out.

I could squat really low and have my legs far apart.  That would be much better foundation than either position you posted.  Is that going to be better for golf?

So the left pic I posted with the weight rolling to the outside of the foot is a better foundation to power? The golfer turning 70 degrees and sliding the hips back is a better foundation of power?

Also as @iacas said, the right leg doesn't provide any "power" in the golf swing.

And yet Ben Hogan flared his right foot…

[mvmac]

This information should have been provided by your Evolvr instructor.   Blind advice is not a good policy.

Thank you for explaining the why of it.  Please inform your instructors they need to do the same in their analyses.

So not receiving a 10 minute explanation on the benefits of flaring the trail foot means what? That you didn't decide to do it? That it hurt your game? That you ditched it after "trying it" for a month?

I didn't see your analysis but I doubt it was "blind advice". The Evolvr guys are really good at what they do and they didn't just "make up" that you needed to flare your feet. I told you to do the same thing twice.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/57543/my-swing-pumaattack#post_705161

http://thesandtrap.com/t/57543/my-swing-pumaattack#post_977475

I'm also sure they gave you some reason it would help their game. Just in this thread we had to repeat ourselves several times in order for you to "get it".

Also this.

PGA Tour players don't need to know the "why" - they simply want to know the what. "What do you want me to do, coach?" "What do I do when I'm hooking the ball, coach?" "What do I do to hit the ball lower, coach?"

We have members on this site who read everything they can get their hands on about the golf swing. They over-educate. They over-stimulate. They can list the 17 things wrong with their golf swings and give you the detailed reasoning behind them, often with an accompanying list of drills and feels for each of them.

That's to their detriment as golfers.