What is the most important aspect of golf that you think can improve your score?

[Lihu]

@Lihu why do you not think this answer comes from reading Lowest Score Wins? Isn't your question exactly what the book was trying to answer? I feel the separation value concept identifies where are the most valuable areas for your to work on to improve your score.

Do you not feel that way?

I don't think this at all, as I hope is exemplified by my own example.

There has been so much contention in many other threads concerning certain topics some of which are contained within LSW that I wanted to find out the reasons why people think the way they do and the paths they are selecting to improve their score. Some of the answers include following LSW, too.

[Ernest Jones]

We had quite a few responses in the importance of distance to amateur golfers. It is really easy for anyone to veer far off topic because there are so many different opinions on short game versus long game and what they feel would improve their own games.

This is intended to be a free for all thread where everyone can share what they think will improve their own games.

I can start off with what I think improved my game and where I still need to improve.

Setting research and statistics aside for a moment, I want to explain what has been significant to me, "Hitting a driver 240 yards and an iron 200 yards is a big deal, because it gives me more confidence off the tee."

These are the most improvements I have made coming from someone who basically had no idea what is my handicap to about a 13 handicap. I will start off by saying that coming down from a 20+ handicap down to where I am today took distance, plain and simple. My short game has actually gotten worse because of all the swing changes I have been making and all the changes I plan to make in the future, as my swing is still a work in progress.

Here is an example of how gaining distance off the tee and with my irons improved my scores.

Scenario 1 (basically me a year ago), where I could only hit 205 yards average off the tee, and hit my longest iron 160 yards. If I were only able to hit my driver 210 yards, and I hit a worm burner only 120 yards on a 370 yard par 4 hole, and my longest iron can only reach 170 yards it puts me at 280 yards. If I thin/top the iron it will only go about 120 yards at most? This would put me 130 yards away from the hole. My only par chance suddenly depends upon a full swing 9i or 8i to get close enough to the pin to putt in.

Scenario 2 (basically me, now), where I can average 230 yards off the tee and hit my longest iron 200 yards.

My worm burner distance is usually about 170-180 yards off the tee (I am capable of hitting 240-250 yards on a decent average shot). How do I get to this 370 yard hole? I can still hit my 3i about 200 yards. That's more than enough to get to the green with a par chance. Now, what if I thin/top it only 170 yards? I'm still only 20-30 yards from the center of the green. This is still a relatively easy up and down. The net result is that it gives me two or three realistic chances at still making a par on this hole.

Anything longer than 380 yards is automatically a scramble situation for Scenario 1. There is no room for error, and if my short game were nearly perfect (not even close before or now), my best handicap would be in the low double digits.

My automatic scramble situation is now 430 yards, not using my hybrid or driving iron. The hybrid and driving iron are used for "rescue" situations. 420-450 yards is typically the longest par 4 hole on a 6000-6400 yard course. The less times you are forced to scramble the better your chances at making bogey or par.

Or course, I would like to be able to drive 270 and hit my longest iron 220 yards. Longer is better in my opinion even if I had to give up 2-3 degrees of accuracy.

I think it's hilarious that you know your stats for your "worm burners" lol.

I remember pulling the snot out of a tee shot on a downhill par 4. Had to hit my approach from the tree line separating the fairways. When I got to my ball I had to wait for the ladies playing up the other fairway. One of them looked over at me and said, "what do you do from there??" I replied, no worries, it's 130y downhill, green slopes right to left from here. She looked at me and said, "I dunno what's worse, the fact that you're way over here or the fact that you know the exact yardage and play from here..."

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/78598/what-is-the-most-important-aspect-of-golf-that-you-think-can-improve-your-score#post_1084351"] We had quite a few responses in the importance of distance to amateur golfers. It is really easy for anyone to veer far off topic because there are so many different opinions on short game versus long game and what they feel would improve their own games. This is intended to be a free for all thread where everyone can share what they think will improve their own games. I can start off with what I think improved my game and where I still need to improve. Setting research and statistics aside for a moment, I want to explain what has been significant to me, "Hitting a driver 240 yards and an iron 200 yards is a big deal, because it gives me more confidence off the tee." These are the most improvements I have made coming from someone who basically had no idea what is my handicap to about a 13 handicap. I will start off by saying that coming down from a 20+ handicap down to where I am today took distance, plain and simple. My short game has actually gotten worse because of all the swing changes I have been making and all the changes I plan to make in the future, as my swing is still a work in progress. Here is an example of how gaining distance off the tee and with my irons improved my scores. Scenario 1 (basically me a year ago), where I could only hit 205 yards average off the tee, and hit my longest iron 160 yards. If I were only able to hit my driver 210 yards, and I hit a worm burner only 120 yards on a 370 yard par 4 hole, and my longest iron can only reach 170 yards it puts me at 280 yards. If I thin/top the iron it will only go about 120 yards at most? This would put me 130 yards away from the hole. My only par chance suddenly depends upon a full swing 9i or 8i to get close enough to the pin to putt in. Scenario 2 (basically me, now), where I can average 230 yards off the tee and hit my longest iron 200 yards. My worm burner distance is usually about 170-180 yards off the tee (I am capable of hitting 240-250 yards on a decent average shot). How do I get to this 370 yard hole? I can still hit my 3i about 200 yards. That's more than enough to get to the green with a par chance. Now, what if I thin/top it only 170 yards? I'm still only 20-30 yards from the center of the green. This is still a relatively easy up and down. The net result is that it gives me two or three realistic chances at still making a par on this hole. Anything longer than 380 yards is automatically a scramble situation for Scenario 1. There is no room for error, and if my short game were nearly perfect (not even close before or now), my best handicap would be in the low double digits. My automatic scramble situation is now 430 yards, not using my hybrid or driving iron. The hybrid and driving iron are used for "rescue" situations. 420-450 yards is typically the longest par 4 hole on a 6000-6400 yard course. The less times you are forced to scramble the better your chances at making bogey or par. Or course, I would like to be able to drive 270 and hit my longest iron 220 yards. Longer is better in my opinion even if I had to give up 2-3 degrees of accuracy. [/QUOTE] I think it's hilarious that you know your stats for your "worm burners" lol.  I remember pulling the snot out of a tee shot on a downhill par 4. Had to hit my approach from the tree line separating the fairways. When I got to my ball I had to wait for the ladies playing up the other fairway. One of them looked over at me and said, "what do you do from there??" I replied, no worries, it's 130y downhill, green slopes right to left from here. She looked at me and said, "I dunno what's worse, the fact that you're way over here or the fact that you know the exact yardage and play from here...":-P

It's funny that I still remember some of my worm burners so clearly. Usually at the most embarrassing times when you want to impress someone. :-D To be honest, I don't really remember my WB from a year ago, but I remember having a short walk to my ball and a long one to the hole. Now it's more the other way. ;-)

[mchepp]

I don't think this at all, as I hope is exemplified by my own example.

There has been so much contention in many other threads concerning certain topics some of which are contained within LSW that I wanted to find out the reasons why people think the way they do and the paths they are selecting to improve their score. Some of the answers include following LSW, too.

I don't know contention, but the book is really clear on how to improve.

If you remember early on Erik did an analysis of one of his rounds giving himself a grade for each separation value on each hole. This will help you identify which areas you need to work on, especially if you analyze 5-10 rounds. Once you have this analysis you can decide what you will go work on first. This is what I do.

For me it is the driver. It was killing me, but in the last few months I have made some changes and focused practice on working with the driver and it has paid off. I think most golfers would intensively improve if they did the same analysis Erik did on their own rounds and worked on their lowest grades in the highest separation value.

[billchao]

So, if you hit your 170 yard club multiple times while playing on the course, what is the dispersion of radial distances and separately what is your tangential (left to right) dispersion?

I'll hit any number of clubs from that distance, depending on conditions. Here is what my dispersion is from 150-175 yards:

[14ledo81]

For me, distance would be huge. I hit it straight enough, but not very long. My putting and short game is also decent. Not great, but probably above average.

[mvmac]

I don't know contention, but the book is really clear on how to improve.

If you remember early on Erik did an analysis of one of his rounds giving himself a grade for each separation value on each hole. This will help you identify which areas you need to work on, especially if you analyze 5-10 rounds. Once you have this analysis you can decide what you will go work on first. This is what I do.

Well said

[iacas]

Well said

The chart is on the LSW site: http://lowestscorewins.com/members/assessing-your-sv-results .

[TimS65]

Consistency. Which for me means good ball contact. Having taken up golf just over a year ago, I've recently made a big change to my swing which I've found has helped me a lot. I did have a very "hands forward" stance at address, which I realised was delofting my clubs. With a bad contact this would lead to grass cutters. I now have a neutral stance which means much better height on my irons, a more consistent distance, and generally even bad contacts will still be airborne and therefore not be total disasters. I've also gone from out to in to a consistent in to out path. I've also stopped slicing my driver which is a massive benefit to me!

Just need some decent weather to put it all together on the course rather than just the range...

[k-troop]

Driving. If I drive well, I will shoot at or below my I index, even if I putt poorly. Had a near perfect driving day last week which resulted in 17 nGIRs, which resulted in a score of 74 (72/129/72.6/6800) despite five 3-putts. Gotta have more of those days where I'm in position to go for the green with a short iron on every hole.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I don't think this at all, as I hope is exemplified by my own example.

There has been so much contention in many other threads concerning certain topics some of which are contained within LSW that I wanted to find out the reasons why people think the way they do and the paths they are selecting to improve their score. Some of the answers include following LSW, too.

I don't know contention, but the book is really clear on how to improve.

If you remember early on Erik did an analysis of one of his rounds giving himself a grade for each separation value on each hole. This will help you identify which areas you need to work on, especially if you analyze 5-10 rounds. Once you have this analysis you can decide what you will go work on first. This is what I do.

For me it is the driver. It was killing me, but in the last few months I have made some changes and focused practice on working with the driver and it has paid off. I think most golfers would intensively improve if they did the same analysis Erik did on their own rounds and worked on their lowest grades in the highest separation value.

The main thing is that I have no idea how I would self assess in a meaningful manner, and am curious as to how other people self assess their weaknesses.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the content of LSW, any contention is based on the relative importance of certain aspects such as "distance versus accuracy". I found it curious as to why some people think the way they do. It might be the courses they are playing on or something else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Well said

The chart is on the LSW site: http://lowestscorewins.com/members/assessing-your-sv-results .

The problem is I would almost have to give myself 1's on pretty much everything. . .

[No Mulligans]

The main thing is that I have no idea how I would self assess in a meaningful manner, and am curious as to how other people self assess their weaknesses.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the content of LSW, any contention is based on the relative importance of certain aspects such as "distance versus accuracy". I found it curious as to why some people think the way they do. It might be the courses they are playing on or something else?

The problem is I would almost have to give myself 1's on pretty much everything. . .

If you agree with the 5 simple keys, that sure narrows down what you look for when you self assess.  Those keys can be looked at pretty objectively by looking at video.  Also the evolvr lessons and instruction you've had should have educated you as to what to look for.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

So, if you hit your 170 yard club multiple times while playing on the course, what is the dispersion of radial distances and separately what is your tangential (left to right) dispersion?

I'll hit any number of clubs from that distance, depending on conditions.

Here is what my dispersion is from 150-175 yards:

Do you have a tighter breakdown? 150-175 yards is a pretty large range of distances. For instance, my stock full shot 7i is about 145, 6i about 155, 5i 165 and 4i 175 yards. My distance variation is only about 5 yards from shot to shot even though my left-right variation can be much more than that. Plus, I rarely deviate from my stock shots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

The main thing is that I have no idea how I would self assess in a meaningful manner, and am curious as to how other people self assess their weaknesses.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the content of LSW, any contention is based on the relative importance of certain aspects such as "distance versus accuracy". I found it curious as to why some people think the way they do. It might be the courses they are playing on or something else?

The problem is I would almost have to give myself 1's on pretty much everything. . .

If you agree with the 5 simple keys, that sure narrows down what you look for when you self assess.  Those keys can be looked at pretty objectively by looking at video.  Also the evolvr lessons and instruction you've had should have educated you as to what to look for.

Which is why I give myself 1's on everything when I play on the course.

Just to list a few:

-My short game can be pretty phenomenal, like chipping in from 20 yards a couple times a round. It can also be pretty abysmal, like 40+ putts in a round.

-My drives can be 240-250 yards, then later in the round barely 200-220 yards. I can hit multiple balls off the tee and still get only 220 yards or so. Then at other times, I can nail them 265 to 270 yards (pretty rare). (poor)

-My iron shots are usually pretty straight, unless I shank the ball (shank=poor).

-My iron shots can be pretty good or bad depending upon if I thin it or not. They still magically go the same distance as my flushed shots. (poor)

-Sometimes I read a line and the putt goes the other way, even when I examine the hole afterwards. I even put a level on one hole and I would have read it completely wrong. (poor)

-I can hit a putt well, or "fat it" depending upon the lie angle of the putt. (poor)

[scorpion12]

Lihu, your first post describes my golf game to a T. Pun intended. Are you me? I don't think so because I'm here and you're there.

Anyway, I too only hit my drives around 200 yards. Sometimes a bit more, usually a bit less. I can't say I've got the same problem with the worm burners and my 3 and 7 woods... they tend to perform for me. It's my iron play that doesn't play out. I too only hit my 6i about 150 yards. Not too certain about how far my 5i and 4i go but it's not much further. I wish it was though.

I've seen improvement in my driving since the beginning of the spring since the ball goes a bit further now than then. I'd tee off and know where my usual spot would end up. Now I tee off and I'm several yards beyond that spot and more towards the center of the fairway instead of the left side.

My drives tend to be "straightish"... but occasionally I do have my beloved fade/slice appear when I try to swing too hard or fast. So I try to slow that down. Changes to my grip also worked to help me hit the ball straighter and further. A stronger grip seems to work for me.

I'd say the aspect of my game that could use the most work is my chipping and putting. While it may take me a tee shot, fairway wood shot, and a chip shot to try to get onto the green, my accuracy with my wedges is hit or miss at best. Throw a longer iron into that mix and I'm looking at a snowman or worse. My putting is horrid and I have several holes per round where I'm 3 or 4 putting. It's speed and line. I can't read a putt to save my score at all.

My plan is to try to hit the front yard and try to practice my chip shots to improve my accuracy. Putting will be inside my home where I've got carpet...

[TimS65]

Lihu, your first post describes my golf game to a T. Pun intended. Are you me? I don't think so because I'm here and you're there.

Anyway, I too only hit my drives around 200 yards. Sometimes a bit more, usually a bit less. I can't say I've got the same problem with the worm burners and my 3 and 7 woods... they tend to perform for me. It's my iron play that doesn't play out. I too only hit my 6i about 150 yards. Not too certain about how far my 5i and 4i go but it's not much further. I wish it was though.

I've seen improvement in my driving since the beginning of the spring since the ball goes a bit further now than then. I'd tee off and know where my usual spot would end up. Now I tee off and I'm several yards beyond that spot and more towards the center of the fairway instead of the left side.

My drives tend to be "straightish"... but occasionally I do have my beloved fade/slice appear when I try to swing too hard or fast. So I try to slow that down. Changes to my grip also worked to help me hit the ball straighter and further. A stronger grip seems to work for me.

I'd say the aspect of my game that could use the most work is my chipping and putting. While it may take me a tee shot, fairway wood shot, and a chip shot to try to get onto the green, my accuracy with my wedges is hit or miss at best. Throw a longer iron into that mix and I'm looking at a snowman or worse. My putting is horrid and I have several holes per round where I'm 3 or 4 putting. It's speed and line. I can't read a putt to save my score at all.

My plan is to try to hit the front yard and try to practice my chip shots to improve my accuracy. Putting will be inside my home where I've got carpet...

I struggled with chipping as well - anything inside around 100 yards. Anything less than a full swing I really struggled with distance control. Then I invested in a set of Adams Tom Watson wedges (52, 56, 60 deg) and they have really helped! I can now use a pretty full swing from 65 yards upwards, and can judge shorter shots better with 60 deg wedge.

[Lihu]

Lihu, your first post describes my golf game to a T. Pun intended. Are you me? I don't think so because I'm here and you're there.

Anyway, I too only hit my drives around 200 yards. Sometimes a bit more, usually a bit less. I can't say I've got the same problem with the worm burners and my 3 and 7 woods... they tend to perform for me. It's my iron play that doesn't play out. I too only hit my 6i about 150 yards. Not too certain about how far my 5i and 4i go but it's not much further. I wish it was though.

I've seen improvement in my driving since the beginning of the spring since the ball goes a bit further now than then. I'd tee off and know where my usual spot would end up. Now I tee off and I'm several yards beyond that spot and more towards the center of the fairway instead of the left side.

My drives tend to be "straightish"... but occasionally I do have my beloved fade/slice appear when I try to swing too hard or fast. So I try to slow that down. Changes to my grip also worked to help me hit the ball straighter and further. A stronger grip seems to work for me.

I'd say the aspect of my game that could use the most work is my chipping and putting. While it may take me a tee shot, fairway wood shot, and a chip shot to try to get onto the green, my accuracy with my wedges is hit or miss at best. Throw a longer iron into that mix and I'm looking at a snowman or worse. My putting is horrid and I have several holes per round where I'm 3 or 4 putting. It's speed and line. I can't read a putt to save my score at all.

My plan is to try to hit the front yard and try to practice my chip shots to improve my accuracy. Putting will be inside my home where I've got carpet...

I did a lot of this at one time, but unless you spend hours per day doing it it does not translate as well to the course. I was around a 20 handicap, and this helped me a lot. I needed to practice a lot, though.

On the driving range range and on practice greens, I tend to be able to hit long drives and hole in chips with some frequency and make really nice putts from all over the practice greens. I have a lot of issues taking these skills on the course. I think it's just because the course is simply harder with all the slopes, lie angles and bunkers and such. Also, your physical state after having just hit two shots and briskly walked 300-600 yards makes it harder to get the same physical and mental states required to chip or putt.

My problem is being able to perform well on the course. This might also be an endurance issue, and I'm sure as I learn more techniques (from LSW) I think they will help alleviate some of the requirements somewhat.

I try to play at least four 18 hole rounds per week, and endurance is going to continue to be an issue.

One thing I noticed is that if I try to swing "harder" my swing goes from an inside-out swing to an outside-in swing. This might be a potential cause of your fades and slices?

I struggled with chipping as well - anything inside around 100 yards. Anything less than a full swing I really struggled with distance control. Then I invested in a set of Adams Tom Watson wedges (52, 56, 60 deg) and they have really helped! I can now use a pretty full swing from 65 yards upwards, and can judge shorter shots better with 60 deg wedge.

The wedges will help you a lot. You can try to de-loft the 60 at first just to get the feel for it.

[No Mulligans]

My problem is being able to perform well on the course. This might also be an endurance issue, and I'm sure as I learn more techniques (from LSW) I think they will help alleviate some of the requirements somewhat.

I try to play at least four 18 hole rounds per week, and endurance is going to continue to be an issue.

Four rounds a week... Jealous again.

I was thinking about how the course is different than the range.  On the range I take the same shot over and over.  On the course, you only get one chance at the shot.  That's the biggest difference to me.

[dchoye]

I been trying to improve with my driver this winter.

Using the launch monitor numbers , and been able to getting my spin rates under 3000 and swing speed to max out at 105.

Thats the best i can do currently.

matching up. The feel I get is.

ball position of the left foot. hitting up and around for more a draw pattern. lateral tilt. try to accelerate on the upswing