Messed with Stack and Tilt Today

[iacas]

Today while I was on the range fixing the flaws plainly evident in these swings , I got to thinking. Two of the flaws in the swings seen in that thread were:

1. Club is taken away very much to the inside
2. Swing plane is very flat

So i thought, gee, that's kind of like Stack and Tilt. Since I had a mirror, I spent 15 minutes playing with a stack and tilt swing. First I recreated the inside takeaway (the flat plane takes care of itself for me if I do that). Then I worked on straightening first my right leg and then my left.

Then I hit about 20 balls with a 5-iron or 7-iron, then 10 or so with my driver and 3-wood.

Of the 20 balls I hit with the irons, 18 or so were really, really good. They flew high with a baby draw. The two bad ones were as follows: one 5-iron flew really, really low. Dead straight, but really low. Lower than a knockdown... and my contact was good. Not like I hit it thin. The other was also the 5-iron, and it started out straight initially and then just went left HARD. Still pretty high (not as high as the others), but hard left.

The 10 with the driver and 3-wood weren't as good: five were nice shots - straight drivers or 3Ws that had a medium height. The bad ones were like my bad 5-iron: straight with a hard left turn. Like 60 yards left of the target line.

I also hit a few balls from a slightly downhill lie with a hybrid, which is often a problem with a very flat swing, and the ball never got more than about 15 yards off the ground. It still went almost its normal distance (and probably would roll out to the same yardage), but man the ball flew low.

Now, that's pretty much what I understand to be common of S&T;: it's great for the irons, but for hybrids and particularly the longer fairway woods and drivers, it's tough to get elevation and to avoid the big old hooks. It's tough to hit some kinds of shots (like the downhill lie) because the swing is so flat... that sort of stuff.

I'm not going to switch to Stack and Tilt simply because my misses with the S&T; swing were far, far, FAR bigger than my misses with "my" swing. On days when I'm really struggling, I may temporarily employ the swing just to get into the clubhouse and onto the range.

I'm not looking to start a whole new "stack and tilt" discussion - we have plenty here. But I did want to share my thoughts.

P.S. I'm still also not willing to rule out the fact that stack and tilt achieves initial success with some people because it kind of short circuits the brain a little. If I've lost feel, I'll spend 30 minutes on the range with a 6-iron hitting all kinds of shots - low shots, huge slices, high draws... everything. I'll just swing, free of thoughts, and try to hit all kinds of shot shapes. Temporarly adopting Stack and Tilt, I posit, is something like that: it forces you to concentrate more on simply getting the clubhead back to the ball since you're swinging in an unusual way. The extra concentration is why you sometimes perform better, not necessarily because the swing is that much better... for example, a few weeks ago I had a 135 yard shot with my ball in the middle of a very thin divot. About 1/4 of the ball was beneath the ground, so I had to strike down on the ball and make VERY crisp contact. It forced me to concentrate really hard and I produced one of my best shots (and swings) of the day. Anyway, I think S&T; is still a bit like that...

[Diggitydog]

I'm sure you've seen me posting about Stack and Tilt and I really am trying to be unbiased about the whole S&T; deal. By unbiased I mean, not say it's right for everybody if you don't like it or just because I like it I think you should do it kind of thing.

The following isn't advice, maybe more like a collection of thoughts.
iacas,
I find it intriguing that you gave Stack and Tilt a test drive so to speak. I have noticed that your swing from last year and even your recent before you worked on some things swing that your plane is flat naturally. It seems like its some work to get the plane upright. I can identify with some of your exact swing thoughts that you described working on to be more upright etc. The feeling of toe up, or back and up for swing plane was what I used to try and feel when I was doing a more upright swing. For me, it just became a lot of work to keep all the moving parts firing together. I also had mental scar tissue from hitting major slices when my swing wasn't working.

Your experiment with S&T; is very similar to what I felt early this season. I tried it, I liked it for a range session or two but then some things crept in and I bailed on it quick. I bailed because I didn't know how to fix them. After reading the second article in August in conjunction with struggling with consistency I decided to give Stack and Tilt an honest run.

There are a couple of reasons that I have found will cause misses with S&T.;
1. My hands are actually getting too high above my right shoulder in my backswing. When they get to the top they should feel like they are just even or slightly above my right shoulder. I have missed with hooks when my hands got too high. They were very hard hooks as you described. Those shots have disappeared and it's very rare for me to hit a hard hook.
2. I miss to the right with pushes when my hands get a bit too low, the path becomes too inside and I push the ball. Slices can happen but I have found them to be the exception.
3. I don't commit to the tilt. I've found this to be the hardest thing to do sometimes. If I don't tilt my shoulders towards the ball enough I'll hit it thin, to the right. It's akin to combining S&T; with a conventional weight shift swing.

Rhythm is still important in this swing. A good transition from backswing to downswing still applies. I also don't find myself really stomping down "crushing the can" but I do comfortably straighten my left leg. It feels pretty normal to me on the leg action.

When my swing feels a bit off now I think of these fundamentals.
1. tilt, commit to the tilt. keep weight on left foot.
2. hands need to feel like they are at the right shoulder at top of backswing
3. straighten left leg on downswing, don't get lazy on that.
That is my list, everything else feels simple and in place to me.

My driver took a little time to get really going but once it did I've quickly turned driving into the best part of my game. I played this weekend and hit driver all 11 holes that I could hit driver and 10 of them were in the fairway. My regular playing partners are just wondering exactly what I've done to become such a solid ball striker in such a short period of time. I hit one mentally unprepared drive last round that I lost in the bush to the right. :( My provisional was a bullet down the middle.

I can offer this as experience. Stack and Tilt is not merely a short circuiting of the brain. The swing is a valid technique and for me as a natural one plane swinger very comfortable.

[iacas]

I find it intriguing that you gave Stack and Tilt a test drive so to speak.

I think you're giving too much credit. Hitting a few balls on the range is hardly a "test drive," and I did it to goof around, mostly.

It seems like its some work to get the plane upright.

It has been, but my handicap also dropped a full stroke this year and is still under 3.

I also had mental scar tissue from hitting major slices when my swing wasn't working.

FWIW, I don't have that problem, really. If anything the ball goes straight when I mess up, or hooks a little.

Rhythm is still important in this swing. A good transition from backswing to downswing still applies. I also don't find myself really stomping down "crushing the can" but I do comfortably straighten my left leg. It feels pretty normal to me on the leg action.

I didn't crush any cans either. My only real thoughts in goofing around with it were to straighten the right leg, take the club back well to the inside, and straighten the left leg.

[Diggitydog]

I agree that your handicap is way lower than mine and if your misses are straight / in play that makes all of difference really. Honestly the reason I felt compelled to switch was my inability to keep my misses in play. I would go on streaks where things worked on the range but I would get first tee jitters or whatever and things would compound mentally resulting in a total reactor meltdown in my mind where my forearms and other muscles would tense up and I couldn't release the club. This problem created "mental scar tissue" to the point that I really couldn't stand on the tee and have confidence in hitting the ball and know where it was going to go. S&T; is different enough that and the results I've seen continue to trend positive that I no longer have confidence issues.